reading a calm beach structure

[jhcabs]

I love reading about fishing and i've read so much on reading surf beaches that its just all becoming repetative.

I'm Trying to find the mother load of info and wondering if any fellow SAI members may know some links or good books?

In particular I'm looking for info/photos/diagrams etc for reading beaches when they are calm, plus how natural/man made structures effect depth, and ground type. If someone could help it would be fantastic. Even a PM would be greatly appreciated. I will share what i can in return.

For anyone who has read "hooked on bass" its the last chapter that has made me so interested in learning more about predicting and reading beach structure.

I was thinking of literally wading out to comb the beach to build a mental map but i mainly fish nights so figured i'd rather live. Another idea i had was to imagine 5 foot intervals to my tripods right and left (would have to cast straight each time at different distances) to try find feeding fish so i have a marker to keep hitting the same spot each time. Again though a mental map of structure is important. The below diagram is a bit crap. just threw it together but i hope is shows the general idea.

[corbyeire]

i guess on the west coast where there are distinct tides you can go look at a place at low water

the problem with the areas round north wexford and wicklow is there is very little variation in the tides

i suppose you can cast a lead many times and feel the bottom - but some of these outflows may only be a few cms

another is to get really good at reading the water and the patterns that emerge and equate these to the ground underneath

very interesting thread

[jhcabs]

i guess on the west coast where there are distinct tides you can go look at a place at low water

the problem with the areas round north wexford and wicklow is there is very little variation in the tides

i suppose you can cast a lead many times and feel the bottom - but some of these outflows may only be a few cms

another is to get really good at reading the water and the patterns that emerge and equate these to the ground underneath

very interesting thread

The distinct tides makes a huge difference and makes it far easier to read structure for sure.

The North wexford amphidromes sucks alright and i've almost given up checking tide tables at times. However on a recent walk during a sping tide i noticed that the high water mark had created all the structures i was reading about (similar example below. not my picture but if you walked the full lenght of this beach last week you'd know. there were deep gullies and small outflows that we were literally walking through. when i looked inshore to the what would have been the shingle foreshore at high tide, i could see that all i'd needed would have been a 10 foot cast to hit a sweet spot. it made me realise that if your even a few feet off target on these spots it can make the difference from catching fish or scratching your ar#e.

But most times the wind is coming for the west or its too calm to get a decent reading.

Dragging a weight, can be good. admittedly i struggle to understand what i'm feeling when i do it. Using a running ledger either can help as your bait will natural follow the rest of the bait food into these spots, but it would be fantastic to really get good at reading the water and reconizing patterns from other near by structures like headlands, offshore reefs, offshore sandbar, harbours, and the likes.

EDIT: this image doesn't really show them as well as i could see them last week. Basically it was like walking out into an estuary.

[roryodonnell]

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/417339/ ... -the-water

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/537410/ ... ater-again

[jhcabs]

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/417339/ ... -the-water

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/537410/ ... ater-again

Yeah those two articles are great in particular. Great reading and really useful. I'm just wondering is there more than just waves that can be used to read the water.

Somedays there is just nothing but calm seas out in front of you. You can't rely on structures you saw the previous week either as they change regularly after a big blow.

I use google maps sometimes to try identify them but if the sat photos are a few weeks/months/years old then the whole beach could be different

[razor2]

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/417339/ ... -the-water

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/537410/ ... ater-again

Yeah those two articles are great in particular. Great reading and really useful. I'm just wondering is there more than just waves that can be used to read the water.

Somedays there is just nothing but calm seas out in front of you. You can't rely on structures you saw the previous week either as they change regularly after a big blow.

I use google maps sometimes to try identify them but if the sat photos are a few weeks/months/years old then the whole beach could be different

Looking at your last picture it looks like you can get up high and over look the water try a pair of polaroid glasses.It should give you a good idea of the ground when the water is flat

[lugworm]

google earth

[jhcabs]

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach because the angle of descent towards the water tells us a lot about the depth in the trough. Flat beaches, or beaches with very small slopes, tells us the trough water is also shallow and flat. On the other hand, a steep slope suggests deep water in the trough. How does this work? As waves crash over the offshore bar, they lose a lot of energy and height. Howev- er, the waves get a shot at a second life if the water in the trough is rather deep (at least 5 feet), and the energy push from the waves behind them is high. In a deeper trough, energy in the form of a push from waves crashing onto the bar tends to lift the deflated waves and recreate them. The reformed waves roll towards shore with large amounts of energy and eventually crash on the beachfront. The wave energy is dispersed as the waves roll up the beach- front before rolling back towards the water. As the water returns down the face of the beach, it scours some sand and deposits it at the place where the trough and the face of the beach meet under the water. This is the "lip" of the beach, and is a place where many types of bait linger and where gamefish hunt. Shallow troughs work differently. Here, waves never get a second life and what's left of their energy rolls towards shore where it is quickly killed when the water moves up onto the flat beach. Since the face of the beach is flat and lacking a significant slope, the water returns to the trough slowly and without depositing sand at the lip

[lugworm]

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach because the angle of descent towards the water tells us a lot about the depth in the trough. Flat beaches, or beaches with very small slopes, tells us the trough water is also shallow and flat. On the other hand, a steep slope suggests deep water in the trough. How does this work? As waves crash over the offshore bar, they lose a lot of energy and height. Howev- er, the waves get a shot at a second life if the water in the trough is rather deep (at least 5 feet), and the energy push from the waves behind them is high. In a deeper trough, energy in the form of a push from waves crashing onto the bar tends to lift the deflated waves and recreate them. The reformed waves roll towards shore with large amounts of energy and eventually crash on the beachfront. The wave energy is dispersed as the waves roll up the beach- front before rolling back towards the water. As the water returns down the face of the beach, it scours some sand and deposits it at the place where the trough and the face of the beach meet under the water. This is the "lip" of the beach, and is a place where many types of bait linger and where gamefish hunt. Shallow troughs work differently. Here, waves never get a second life and what's left of their energy rolls towards shore where it is quickly killed when the water moves up onto the flat beach. Since the face of the beach is flat and lacking a significant slope, the water returns to the trough slowly and without depositing sand at the lip

so are you suggesting that sloped beaches fish better than flat?????

[razor2]

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach because the angle of descent towards the water tells us a lot about the depth in the trough. Flat beaches, or beaches with very small slopes, tells us the trough water is also shallow and flat. On the other hand, a steep slope suggests deep water in the trough. How does this work? As waves crash over the offshore bar, they lose a lot of energy and height. Howev- er, the waves get a shot at a second life if the water in the trough is rather deep (at least 5 feet), and the energy push from the waves behind them is high. In a deeper trough, energy in the form of a push from waves crashing onto the bar tends to lift the deflated waves and recreate them. The reformed waves roll towards shore with large amounts of energy and eventually crash on the beachfront. The wave energy is dispersed as the waves roll up the beach- front before rolling back towards the water. As the water returns down the face of the beach, it scours some sand and deposits it at the place where the trough and the face of the beach meet under the water. This is the "lip" of the beach, and is a place where many types of bait linger and where gamefish hunt. Shallow troughs work differently. Here, waves never get a second life and what's left of their energy rolls towards shore where it is quickly killed when the water moves up onto the flat beach. Since the face of the beach is flat and lacking a significant slope, the water returns to the trough slowly and without depositing sand at the lip

The best way to get knowledge of a mark is to go down at low water . Have a look around a few days before you fish never mind the goggle earth and the rest ground can change very fats on a beach over an few days.

[jhcabs]

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach ....

so are you suggesting that sloped beaches fish better than flat?????

No... I simply shared an article i found on the subject.

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach .....

The best way to get knowledge of a mark is to go down at low water . Have a look around a few days before you fish never mind the goggle earth and the rest ground can change very fats on a beach over an few days.

Cheers man. I wish i was more local to the marks i like to fish. Unfortunately i'm an hours drive. I do try get down at low water when i can. breaks up the day too until its time to fish.

[saving private brian]

www.osi.ie

[corbyeire]

there is also the helicopter view at low water - cant remember the link - its in one of gfkellys posts

[lugworm]

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach ....

so are you suggesting that sloped beaches fish better than flat?????

No... I simply shared an article i found on the subject.

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach .....

The best way to get knowledge of a mark is to go down at low water . Have a look around a few days before you fish never mind the goggle earth and the rest ground can change very fats on a beach over an few days.

Cheers man. I wish i was more local to the marks i like to fish. Unfortunately i'm an hours drive. I do try get down at low water when i can. breaks up the day too until its time to fish.

yes........and i simply just questioned it???

[jhcabs]

Found this article quite interesting for calm conditions

Examine the slope of the beach ....

so are you suggesting that sloped beaches fish better than flat?????

.

yes........and i simply just questioned it???

Didn't mean any dis-respect there mate.

There more i think about it though, i do prefer steeper beaches at low water on neap tides. Haven't kept a log long enough to know if it made any difference though. I was taking advice from an old timer.

I enjoy fishing shallower beaches on incoming tides though. especially spring tides. again hopefully my logs will eventually show some patterns to whether it works to my benefit or not.

The helicopter views sounds great. My boss is a pilot and he said he'll bring me up with him soon. I plan on taking some photos along the east coast. Just hope its a real sunny day

[lugworm]

none taken mo chara.......its an interesting one and was genuinley only wondering....... but at the same time i can be very sceptical about theories like the one mentioned..........ithink there is no better experience than actualy going out and fishing the same mark a number of times until u know it.............i think every angler has a mark they know like the back of their hand.........of course i understand that if there is a slope that means for deeper water......but who needs deeper water if tides r right and the species you could be fishing for like bass who are only 60-70m out or even flats that are only 10-20m out at times......i dunno if i have made sense i just think some things can jus explode if you go into all the technicalities.....i preffer to jus go fishing!!!!!!

[jhcabs]

none taken mo chara.......its an interesting one and was genuinley only wondering....... but at the same time i can be very sceptical about theories like the one mentioned..........ithink there is no better experience than actualy going out and fishing the same mark a number of times until u know it.............i think every angler has a mark they know like the back of their hand.........of course i understand that if there is a slope that means for deeper water......but who needs deeper water if tides r right and the species you could be fishing for like Bass who are only 60-70m out or even flats that are only 10-20m out at times......i dunno if i have made sense i just think some things can jus explode if you go into all the technicalities.....i preffer to jus go fishing!!!!!!

yeah part of me is wondering if i'll regret getting so deep into the technicalities but its not driving me crazy yet. I find Solunar therory fasinating, same with coastal structure and weather and I like doing the research during the week before getting out to fish. makes the week more bearable. I've also started keeping a detailed log. I wish i could get out more but i work long hours during the week and i only get out for a few hours each Friday and Saturday night if i'm lucky. Soon enough it will be every second week . If my GF gets her way it would b never.

When i was younger i used to spend a lot of time on dodds rocks during my summer holidays from school. Dolly mictures anyone .... I remember somedays when the water was really clear i could see fish moving along the ledges/ridges and the lip of the beach out in front of me. They didn't seem to swim over the flat parts at all. They just moved up and down these ridges tail up and head down. the ridges that get carved out by the waves, some only a few inches deeper than the next one. The way i look at it if your bait is not in their path you rely more on the scent and it can only help you landing the bait right in their path. that makes me less skeptic. if a full moon or the right weather conditions puts more traffic on these little fish highways then all the better.

[lugworm]

Ya i hav a buddy who read way too much into the tech side of things.........and it actualy takes the enjoyment out of jus gettinout there ya know.......and if he blanks he gets so bummed out and has so many theorys of y and how......im exactly the same as urself i try and go fishin on d 3days either side of new moon and full moon.....funny story actuly i was fishing with the same guy mentioned and both on same rod stand.....it was full moon hes casting right into darkness im casting left into moon light......sounds strange but i cot and he blanked.....same bait n evrything......probly not even that far apart wer the two lines......

[anthony byrne]

Very interesting read ! I often fished north Wicklow/dublin area from the shore and often wondered about the structure of the bottom. I was fishing white rock one evening and my uncle had over 20 fish and I blanked we were using the same bait only 5 metres from each other . Since I've had the kayak I use a fish finder I mostly fish deeper water but have went back to killiney and white rock to check the bottom along the shore line. Killiney was very dropped off straight away into 10ft then back up to 6 ft them slowly steeped to 20 ft . This was at the yellow buoys on killiney.

[jhcabs]

Very interesting read ! I often fished north Wicklow/dublin area from the shore and often wondered about the structure of the bottom. I was fishing white rock one evening and my uncle had over 20 fish and I blanked we were using the same bait only 5 metres from each other . Since I've had the kayak I use a fish finder I mostly fish deeper water but have went back to killiney and white rock to check the bottom along the shore line. Killiney was very dropped off straight away into 10ft then back up to 6 ft them slowly steeped to 20 ft . This was at the yellow buoys on killiney.

I am so jealous of you and your Kayak right now

So maybe thats the answer to my question! either buy a Kayak or ask/beg/hire/bribe someone else to map the area your fishing in theirs

Do you still beach cast? I'm definitely going to try kayak fishing but don't want to give up the beach completely.