New Boat on the way

[MAC]

Thanks for the advice Neil. I have yet to hear a bad word about the raiders by their owners. Some people feel that if it's doesn't cost €25k then it can't be good.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on her at the weekend. I was hoping for good fuel economy with the 60EFI so I'm really glad to hear you are experiencing the same.

That photo was one off the net... Don't have a picture of mine yet, but I will post one on Sunday afternoon. I ordered the A frame with a set of Nav lights and VHF. I also ordered the raider Aux bracket and the boarding ladder. I spoke at lenght with John from raider and he tells me that a standard shaft engine will be fine with the raider aux bracket, but I have heard you mention that it might be a bit short. I'm not a 100%, but I will let you know. I already have a Tohatsu 5hp 4 stroke, so it will be very handy if everything works out. You only just need the cavitation plate below the water. The performance will not be optimum, but once the prop is turning at your aux is pumping water, it should be fine.

About servicing, would you consider doing it yourself? I have always serviced my own engines, but have never owned one above 15hp before.

Looking forward to getting on the water now, hopefully this wind will easy off for Sunday.

Kev

[The Dirty Fecker]

MAC,
a 'standard' shaft engine is a long shaft engine. Short shaft engines are a rare breed and can cost more for their obscurity. Also they are mainly used on low transomed river boats like trout fishing boats as far as i am aware. The long shaft set up will work fine with the 'raider' bracket. I have this set up on my boat...

Did you tell him to put the boarding ladder on the drivers side and the bracket on the other side? This is the set up you want. Particularly on the 16 with the shorter hull length.

Best of luck with it.

[MAC]

Hey Luke,

On smaller HP engines the standard shaft is short shaft or 15 inches from top of mounting clamp to cavitation plate. The long shaft or (LS) option is 20 inches... If my memory serves me correctly... My 5Hp engine is the short shaft model.

Once you hit the 60HP range standard shaft is 20 Inches Long shaft is 25 & short shaft is 15.... Confusing... I know my 15 inch engine wont be level with the keel of the boat, but once the cavitation plate is below the water and she is pumping water, then I will be happy enough.... I don't need another engine in the garage.

On the aux and ladder... I was reading everything you posted elsewhere, and I asked for the Ladder behind the helm position and the Aux on the opposite side. Raider must have been listening also, as John mentioned that this was the standard.

Kev

[Neil]

About servicing, would you consider doing it yourself? I have always serviced my own engines, but have never owned one above 15hp before.

Kev

I will think about servicing my motor only when the warranty runs out - 3 years, since authorised-dealer servicing is the only way to keep it valid. The manual stipulates a change in impellor every year, which is a bit much, but Viking felt that Mercury were flexible on this.

[JimC]

since authorised-dealer servicing is the only way to keep it valid

I would reckon that this is not a stipulation anymore (thanks EU!)

We do our own servicing.

[Neil]

That's interesting! Where did you see that?

[MAC]

Thanks for the info Jim. I will clarify with Raider anyway. I would always look to getting the major items done via dealer anyway. Just don't see the point in paying for oil and filter changes, which are a standard enough job...


Kev

[JimC]

That’s from the Mariner/Mercury owners manual, Neil. Warranty can be invalidated by the use of inferior parts (eg: incorrect spec oil, incorrect plugs etc.)
Lets face it the main dealer is not doing anything “special” when he services your engine. There is no need for diagnostics etc. unless there is a problem. There is always the contention that maintenance is carried out by a “competent” person.

We have our own service schedule (taken from the owners/maintenance manual) we follow this and sign off on the hours etc. We use the highest spec of parts Castrol oil (ahead of the recommended specs for both engine and leg). NGK or Denso Plugs (haven’t changed these yet), genuine oil filter, Castrol hi-spec grease. At the end of the day I think we care more about our engine than the main dealer’s mechanic does!!!!

[The Dirty Fecker]

Hey Luke,

On smaller HP engines the standard shaft is short shaft or 15 inches from top of mounting clamp to cavitation plate. The long shaft or (LS) option is 20 inches... If my memory serves me correctly... My 5Hp engine is the short shaft model.

Once you hit the 60HP range standard shaft is 20 Inches Long shaft is 25 & short shaft is 15.... Confusing... I know my 15 inch engine wont be level with the keel of the boat, but once the cavitation plate is below the water and she is pumping water, then I will be happy enough.... I don't need another engine in the garage.

On the aux and ladder... I was reading everything you posted elsewhere, and I asked for the Ladder behind the helm position and the Aux on the opposite side. Raider must have been listening also, as John mentioned that this was the standard.

Kev

That sounds a bit odd to me since when my boat arrived my bracket was on the helm side and the ladder is clearly designed to fit the port side. I had to use cusion type washers i cut out using the foam from a mouse mat to make up the difference in order to get a snug fit for my ladder. If i had mounted it on the port side it would have fitted perfectly. Also if you check Raiders website you will see that it is mounted on the port side too and that this all fits in with the optional transom door set up which is also on that side.

As far as engine sizes go i have always been told by dealers when i brought the subject up that long shaft engines were standard shaft engines and that short shafts were an exception. Also if you mount an engine too high on the transom without the prop clear of the hull you will not get any propulsion. A prop works by creating a vortex and sucking water in and then spititing it out so to speak. With the hull in the way of the sucking you will find it won't work. I found this out myself years ago when i strapped a short shaft Seagull enging to my Shetland to get her accross Dunlaoighre harbour. It made no difference at all

What you can do in the future so as not to waste a reliable engine is buy a spacer and a long shaft and replace the old short shaft in the engine with the new one. when you put the spacer on this will convert your short shaft to a long shaft engine. It really is not that complicated

[Neil]

What you can do in the future so as not to waste a reliable engine is buy a spacer and a long shaft and replace the old short shaft in the engine with the new one. when you put the spacer on this will convert your short shaft to a long shaft engine. It really is not that complicated

Except I was quoted 470 euro for the Merc shaft extension kit

When I did my measurements my short shaft 6HP Merc was almost there; I could probably get away with it - the prop would still be under the gull wing.

[The Dirty Fecker]

Scary stuff alright Neil but given that option i would be more inclined to go down the scrap route

[MAC]

That sounds a bit odd to me since when my boat arrived my bracket was on the helm side and the ladder is clearly designed to fit the port side. I had to use cusion type washers i cut out using the foam from a mouse mat to make up the difference in order to get a snug fit for my ladder. If i had mounted it on the port side it would have fitted perfectly. Also if you check Raiders website you will see that it is mounted on the port side too and that this all fits in with the optional transom door set up which is also on that side.

Wierd alright... Perhaps Raider have changed there thinking on the 16 Cuddy....

As far as engine sizes go i have always been told by dealers when i brought the subject up that long shaft engines were standard shaft engines and that short shafts were an exception.

This is definetly the case at Higher HP's. If you buy a 10Hp engine tomorrow it will be 15 inch or short shaft unless you ask for anything else. This is mainly because a huge amount of these engines are sold throughout Ireland for river and lake boats.

Also if you mount an engine too high on the transom without the prop clear of the hull you will not get any propulsion. A prop works by creating a vortex and sucking water in and then spititing it out so to speak. With the hull in the way of the sucking you will find it won't work. I found this out myself years ago when i strapped a short shaft Seagull enging to my Shetland to get her accross Dunlaoighre harbour. It made no difference at all

I've just been onto John at Raider. He was unsure if the 15 Inch shaft would work.... I will give it a try and let you know how I get on. One answer it to replace the hardboard with a shorter piece to drop that engine just a little more.... We'll see.

What you can do in the future so as not to waste a reliable engine is buy a spacer and a long shaft and replace the old short shaft in the engine with the new one. when you put the spacer on this will convert your short shaft to a long shaft engine. It really is not that complicated

The Spacer wont really work for me mate as I need the short shaft engine for my portabote for my pike fishing. Tried a 20 inch shaft on the portabote before and it was horible...

Thanks again for all the help and advice guys.

Kevin

[Neil]

I've just been onto John at Raider. He was unsure if the 15 Inch shaft would work.... I will give it a try and let you know how I get on. One answer it to replace the hardboard with a shorter piece to drop that engine just a little more.... We'll see.

Kevin

To get a short shaft the right distance down, the bracket needs to be below the rubbing strip a bit. If you compare photos of a similar stock bracket with the Raider one, it looks like Raider have lowered the piece of wood on the metal frame such that the bottom of the wood rests on the rubbing strip. However, if you lower it anymore, will you still be able to tilt up the motor or will it foul the 'bathing platform'.

When you're next on to John, ask him about locking the aux straight ahead, given that Merc say it's not designed to lock.

I'm really thinking of leaving the aux at home from now on.....

[MAC]

If your 60 is performing well I wouldn't see the problem with leaving the Aux at home. If you were going to steam accross Dublin bay though, it would be better to have one.....just in case. I'm not sure there is a "lock" facility, but you should be able to tighten it enough so that it won't move while under full power.... I do this with the Tohatsu all the time.

Kev

[Neil]

If your 60 is performing well I wouldn't see the problem with leaving the Aux at home. If you were going to steam accross Dublin bay though, it would be better to have one.....just in case. I'm not sure there is a "lock" facility, but you should be able to tighten it enough so that it won't move while under full power.... I do this with the Tohatsu all the time.

Kev

Well, I bought the aux "just in case" and never needed it (yet!). New 4 stks are supposed to be so reliable, that they don't really go wrong, especially if they are regularly checked and serviced. I know the story of "you could get a tank of dirty/wet fuel", but is it really a reality if you regularly buy a small (25 lt) amount of fresh fuel every trip? And let's face it you are in as much trouble off Dalkey as out on the Kish if it does pack in.

I might be wrong, but I read in some post or other that Jim from Cork goes vast distances in his 175 without any aux - eh Jim?

As for the friction locking, mine did lock, but after bouncing around on the back for a year or so, the friction is gone and Mercury are washing their hands of it.

[MAC]

Well, I bought the aux "just in case" and never needed it (yet!). New 4 stks are supposed to be so reliable, that they don't really go wrong, especially if they are regularly checked and serviced. I know the story of "you could get a tank of dirty/wet fuel", but is it really a reality if you regularly buy a small (25 lt) amount of fresh fuel every trip? And let's face it you are in as much trouble out on the Kish as off Dalkey if it does pack in.

I also Wouldn't be too preturbed. If your engine cuts, drop you anchor and have a look. During the summer time there are always a few boats around that could give you a tow back to port and there is always the coastguard.

Coaster on here voluntrers for the coastguard in Waterford. He will tell you, as he has mentioned online here before, call them straight away, no matter how trivial you think your problem might be. These things seem to have a way of getting out of control.

As for the friction locking, mine did lock, but after bouncing around on the back for a year or so, the friction is gone and Mercury are washing their hands of it.

Shite.... I am guessing that the threaded tighting knob is made of a softer metal than the engine. You could try a couple of bolts of differnet threads that are made of steel.... These should tighten enough for you. Just be careful not to thread the hole in the engine... Also, instead of tightening while the engine is in the "driving straight" position, try to tighted in "fully turned" so than when lifted, the engine is on it's side. Keep one spanned in your on board tool box and if you ever need to deploy the Aux, simply loosed the bolt lower and tighted in the "driving straight" position and the lower the engine.

I hope I made some sense there.... Basically the engine will be less inclined to try to turn, if it's on its side while tilted...

Hope this helps.

Kev

[JimC]

Yes Neil, we do not carry an aux. At times we do travel big distances. Obviously there are pro’s and cons about carrying or not carrying an aux. We try to keep our engine in tiptop condition and change the engine regularly all in the hope of keeping the package reliable. In many years of boating we have only had grief once… a well-documented mystery breakdown!

Many guys are "shocked" to hear we don’t carry. Yet most people happily travel on charter boats that don’t have an aux either!!!
I suppose it’s a matter of what you are comfortable with!

We have a Merc 15hp 4st powering a little RIB; it has friction control but it will not lock the engine, we bought it S/H so don’t know if it locked from day 1.

[The Dirty Fecker]

I would be inclined to say that you should never consider leaving your aux at home. When you have engine problems unless you are very good with engines it is very rare that it is a serious problem. The thing is will you actually figure out the problem at the time? I have found myself in a problem situation with engines more than once and in all but one time they were never a serious dodgy outboard problem. Issues can ad do crop up and sometimes you just dont have time to sort them. The theory of throwing down your anchor is all well and good but what depth of water are we in and are we fishing close to rocks or islands? These factors throw anchoring theorys out the window sometimes. On more than one ocasion i have been very happy to have had an Auxillary over the years and yes you can always contact the coast gaurd but that is no fun experience either as you drag a bunch of guys away from their beds or their day job to go rescue you while you sit around anchored for an hour or so wauiting for an embarrassing tow in. Then the real fun begins as it always ends up on the news too

As for locking your engine go's. I locked my 5HP 2 stroke evinrude in the forward position by tightening the nut and in doing actually snapped the nut head off in the process But shes locked solid now and it suits me fine. I would question if perhaps the standard bracket arrangement for auxillaries on most boats is to blame for your problems Neil as they tend to wobble a bit with the weight of an engine on them? So far so good with my set up so far. I think it would take a lot to budge that screw from the lock position now

[Neil]

Apart from the increased reliability of the newer 4 strokes, the ECU has a "limp home" mode. If the water pump is dodgy and it overheats, or if oil pressure fails, the ECU brings the revs down to 1500-2000 revs, just to get you home.

When you say you change engines frequently, Jim, how often is that?

[JimC]

We tend to look to our engines after four or five seasons. We take the hours into consideration and debate changing. We did almost five seasons with our last motor and even though it was behaving perfectly we decided that a change would be worthwhile, costly, but worthwhile for peace of mind. I would imagine we will be looking at our current engine in four years time and the debate will start again. At that stage we could be looking to take up sailing!!!

I suppose the biggest dread we have is an electrical problem. Looking under the cowl on a modern engine will do little good other than knowing where the fuses are! We don’t even have a fuel line bulb anymore! There are that many sensors on modern motors that a faulty one can disable an otherwise perfect engine. At limp mode or with an aux you are a long way from home.