Irish team/ M.b3 at world shore championships in Montenegro

[Keeper]

Fair Point.
Perhaps the Masters could be used to pick the Home International team, that competition is more suited to our type of fishing.
The selection committee could select a team taking a variety of matches into account and the results of those competitors.

[paul mason]

I get what you are saying but that would not necessarily be the case, to represent your country each year c.v's are submitted as to why your are good enough to fish for your country, the type of fishing you excel at, and competitions attended and being successfully in. In order to fish for your country you have to fish everything going and be successful. In other words every competition would be a master angler competition and the bar would be raised higher, okay not everyone's cup of tea being completive at every comp but the better anglers would shine through.

If you want to be successfully in any sport you have to attain to be the best, development starts a ground level ie juniors and are coached through the system something we don't do here, yes there are junior leagues for qualifiers for internationals but there is no ground level coaching as such.

okay! i like you pay for these international teams to go away every year if this was a business it would be closed down long ago, why should you or i put up with bad value for money every year, investors want results why should you or i be any different.

Can you name a sport that's not elitist it happens in every sport that's why they succeed it's a competitive thing the will to win.
We have a number of choices we can leave things as they are and continue sending teams picked from the master angler and the qualifier and maybe some year we'll get lucky and claim the gold.
Or we can be constructive and build a gold winning team we have the material so why don't we do it.
I'll tell you why! "begrudger's" they don't want the chance to miss out on the lucky holiday the truth may hurt, but it's a fact, i overheard a conversation between two anglers a few years ago talking about this.
I have been involved in match fishing for over 30 years and in that time i have seen some class anglers walk away from our sport through sheer frustration of our system and not been able to make an international team this will happen again and again if the system is not changed, as a well known british angler made a comment a few years ago when the world championships were held here he said " you would pick a better team from the Stewart's on the beach" i think that sums it all up.

However i would like to offer my congratulations to the lads who represented us at the world championship this is not aimed at them in any way i have advocated this for a great number of years.

[petekd]

Do you think better venue selection for the likes of the masters and the fish offs would help? Or extending the number of sessions? Smaller zones? Seeded zones? I ask this because in fairness, if you cant beat whats in front of you on a garryvoe or a benone or wherever, what hope against the Ian Golds of this world far away from home?

I do agree in part with what your saying and if we went down the route of hand picking a team then short term results may well improve. What motivation for lads to attend club master angler comps though? Its hard enough getting a turn out as it is. Where is the newcomer going to learn his trade? The current crop of diehard match anglers wont bother their arse fishing small stuff like this if they arent going to benefit. If those lads arent turning up to comps then who does joe newbie learn from?

CV route will kill off clubs. Tweak the qualification process by all means but every angler, if good enough, should at least have a FAIR chance at having a crack for a green blazer and not have it turned into a jobs for the boys decided by a committee somewhere. Any other way and watch matches and consequently revenue from same fall away.

[Dave Jolly]

I am dissapointed in the response so far.
My own 2c,
1, I believe that the club comps, Master angler, and the qualifiers is the way to go, I do not agree with the selection route.
2, I believe that you have to pick venues for the fish offs where a lot of fish will be caught, you need to have everyone in a zone catching 10-20 fish with the cream getting maybe 30 to have any hope of selecting a good team,, the only venue I can think of would be somewhere along the east coast in winter when the whiting /coalies are running, fishing daylight only..
3, I would add in the provincal winners and the Jimmy Smith for the fish offs, and the top 5 would be the World team, and the second 5 would be the home international team, I would not have the MA winner or the JS winner qualify automatically, and they would have to come through the fish offs like everyone else.
4, I would look at the anglers paying a share of the costs, at least 1000eu each, at least that way only the committed and motivated anglers would take part, not as has been said earlier, the guys looking for a cheap holiday.

I believe after a couple of years of this, you will see the same names coming through all the time, thus giving us the chance to build up a core of anglers with huge experience, and bring us medals back, whilst also allowing new developing talent the chance to come through.

[eric]

i agree with a lot of your point pete and dave, i believe a cv system is great in principle but carries alot of disadvantages as mentioned by pete. the system in operation for the youth teams, i believe is the way to go for selecting the home international team. the top 5 from each provincial league compete over a weekend similiar to the fish offs. i think the fish offs is a great idea for the world team. like dave i agree the winner of the masters and jimmy smith should not automatically aulify for the team.

[croppyboy]

agree about jimmy smiths but winner of masters should be on team . he is the most consistant in his club and the most consistant over the masters so deserves his place.

[eric]

agree about jimmy smiths but winner of masters should be on team . he is the most consistant in his club and the most consistant over the masters so deserves his place.

dont agree there, joe bloggs from some random old timers club, could make it to the masters and easily have three lucky sessions.

[yappo]

joe bloggs from some random old timers club

OMG Eric a bit of prejudice creeping in here eh?

Presume the same could apply to some random not yet wet behind the ears youngsters club.

Yappo

[eric]

joe bloggs from some random old timers club

OMG Eric a bit of prejudice creeping in here eh?

Presume the same could apply to some random not yet wet behind the ears youngsters club.

Yappo

sorry, ageism is never ok

[BASS POINT]

I get what you are saying but that would not necessarily be the case, to represent your country each year c.v's are submitted as to why your are good enough to fish for your country, the type of fishing you excel at, and competitions attended and being successfully in. In order to fish for your country you have to fish everything going and be successful. In other words every competition would be a master angler competition and the bar would be raised higher, okay not everyone's cup of tea being completive at every comp but the better anglers would shine through.

If you want to be successfully in any sport you have to attain to be the best, development starts a ground level ie juniors and are coached through the system something we don't do here, yes there are junior leagues for qualifiers for internationals but there is no ground level coaching as such.

okay! i like you pay for these international teams to go away every year if this was a business it would be closed down long ago, why should you or i put up with bad value for money every year, investors want results why should you or i be any different.

Can you name a sport that's not elitist it happens in every sport that's why they succeed it's a competitive thing the will to win.
We have a number of choices we can leave things as they are and continue sending teams picked from the master angler and the qualifier and maybe some year we'll get lucky and claim the gold.
Or we can be constructive and build a gold winning team we have the material so why don't we do it.
I'll tell you why! "begrudger's" they don't want the chance to miss out on the lucky holiday the truth may hurt, but it's a fact, i overheard a conversation between two anglers a few years ago talking about this.
I have been involved in match fishing for over 30 years and in that time i have seen some class anglers walk away from our sport through sheer frustration of our system and not been able to make an international team this will happen again and again if the system is not changed, as a well known british angler made a comment a few years ago when the world championships were held here he said " you would pick a better team from the Stewart's on the beach" i think that sums it all up.

However i would like to offer my congratulations to the lads who represented us at the world championship this is not aimed at them in any way i have advocated this for a great number of years.

Paul just a note to let you know that RINNASHARK SAC do coach our junior anglers but you do have a point look at the few junior anglers from Cork clubs each year and look at Irish Teams at all levels over the last 10 or 12 years and you will see RINNASHARK SAC members so coaching young anglers will help but not many clubs or snr. members will help young anglers and that will have to change before any thing else .

[eric]

well said about the junior anglers paul. especially on behalf of the leinster youths.coming from a background which involved absolutley no match angling learning to compete on the beaches was a steap learning curve. i have to say nearly everything i know comes from meeting people through this site. perhaps a few workshops in the summer on rig making, tactics, casting tuition etc.. would be the way to go? or what about a club set up specifically for juniors?

[kstaff]

Good points and all valid in the context of the debate however the lack of response is probably more to do with lads generally not knowing how the team selection works etc and not commmenting as a result. It's better to have input from those who are aware and familiar with how all this works. We really don't need a c&r type reaction to this post.

Would a system like the Penn League work here to help with selection of teams?

[MAC]

I like the workshop idea, and it might be something that we might be able to do via a webinar or something so that a multitude of people can participate without having to travel.

Something to have a serious think about there.

Kev

[dfella25]

Would a system like the Penn League work here to help with selection of teams?

Does that mean whoever can through some lead the furthest?

[baldy]

Why don't you all come to the IFSA Annual General Meeting and aire your views !

[paul mason]

England Squad selection weekend 8/9th Agust
I was lucky enough to be asked to attend this weekend.
I have to say it was the most impressive thing I have seen in a while.

First thing that hit me was the commitment to the team by the managers and other groups such as the Angling trust and Selectors.
Saturday morning saw the seniors kick it off, and while I was expecting a brief talk and then onto the wall for the fishing, that was the last thing they got.
Chris Put them at their ease soon enough,and a lot of them know each other obviously. There were existing squad members and anglers wanting to get a squad place, but basically they were all there for Selection and all had to work for it on the day.
Personally I think the classroom based session maybe fazed some of the seniors, made them think and put them on the spot with the answers each group came up with.
Interesting that out of I believe four groups, a lot of the answers were the same but all were worthwhile.
A lot of anglers I recognised, a lot I knew of but had never met but It was worth going just to see what they have to come up with to even stand a chance of selection.
Sad thing for me was that I had some work booked in for the afternoon which turned into a nightmare and I missed the seniors fishing. apparently a good few guilt heads and bass came out.

Sunday morning I was back for the junior and youth selection. Again a mixture of existing squad and hopefuls but again all there for selection again.
One lad from Bexhill really impressed me. He had fished a few local club matches and fare pretty well but it was evident he needed to fish matches further afield to get a mixture of tactics and conditions under his belt.
He had very little in the way of rigs, and I believe a few of us helped out there with bits and bobs and he spent Saturday night building gear to use on Sunday.
A few of the senior squad members returned on the Sunday to help with the classroom based subjects and I think it's fair to say that the seniors were maybe nervous. Julian Shambrook gave a pretty impressive talk on how rods are built. I have never met the bloke but I was pretty impressed at how he built a rapport with the kids.
Malcolm Stotes did the same with hooks and how and when to use them which again had the kids fascinated (and me)

One other guy (cannot remember his name sorry) was outside demonstrating how to set up and organise yourself for match fishing. How to build a "workstation" around you and keep yourself working. more importantly he told them how to stay healthy while fishing in often pretty hot conditions.
The kids were told how hard it could be, how to relax and how to communicate. They were all put at ease as best people could and basically the people organizing the event soon had people who did not know each other relaxed and comfortable with the people around them.
Banter was the thing that made people relax and it was shared and used as a tool.

The fishing for the juniors/Youths was easily the most impressive thing I have seen.
Total concentration by all and withing seconds the fish were coming out. Small bass everywhere! It was not simply about how many they took but how they organized and the speed at which they worked.
There were a lot of anxious parents there that had driven from as far away as Liverpool and they were probably more nervous than the anglers. They were allowed to have no input with the anglers during the fishing and they eventually grouped together to wait it out.
Again some of the seniors were there acting as Marshals and they worked bloody hard in the heat because the anglers were not giving them a break at all.
Back to the lad from Bexhill, he was a worker for sure and using baits and tackle/tactics he had not used before but the work rate he put out was humbling to see. I was not there as a parent, I was there as a coach and occasionally had a quick word with the lad to ensure he got the best from the day. I do not know if he was selected but I know he gave his best and will surely be there in the future if he keeps working.

Callum Graham was working his socks off. twice I saw people speak to him as he was fishing and he never looked up once, just gave a quick answer and got on with it.
DBY, Callums dad knew that he was to have no involvement in what Callum was doing on the day and took the opportunity to find a local pub (very shrewed )

Importantly, the care of everyone and all fish was paramount. Fish were instantly placed in a bucket of water until measured and instantly returned.
Risk assessments were done for everything and everyone, first aiders were everywhere and everyone worked there position around the general public using the area.
Anyone can apply to go to these days, and if any of you have children into angling then these days are worth their weight in gold for all concerned.
I would honestly have paid to be involved in that weekend.
I do not have pictures, certainly not of the young ones but maybe someone has some somewhere.

one last thing, Julian Shambrooke was good enough to hand a 2 and bait rod to the first name pulled out of a hat for the junior/youth groups. I did get my name in that hat, I believe 3 times actually but sadly never won.
I also saw Ian golds demonstrate a new product that to be honest I was stunned by and can't wait till they go on the market.
I have taken this from another site in england i think we could have something like this.

[doggie3131]

Good points and all valid in the context of the debate however the lack of response is probably more to do with lads generally not knowing how the team selection works etc and not commmenting as a result. It's better to have input from those who are aware and familiar with how all this works. We really don't need a c&r type reaction to this post.

Would a system like the Penn League work here to help with selection of teams?

i have not commented because its exactly as kstaff says i had no idea how this worked,but i think eric has a great point,until we start teaching the juniors all the tricks of the trade,from an early age, then how do we expect them to be able to compete when there older and have to start from scratch learning,kids soak up information,not so much when there a bit older and are dealing with "distractions"

[BASS POINT]

I see from this English site not to happy over on that side of the sea either

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/s ... p?t=206276

[m.b3]

Very strong team there some great anglers when will we hear news?

Yeah looking forward to the resuls myself, I'm sure the lads will do well
They had four days practise and four days fishing so should know by Wed/thursday probably...This info came from mark so thats probably wrong knowing him he usually doesn't know what day it is

Al you have just lost your duty free

there were a few things over there that made a difference that we were not prepared for. the main problem is information. all the lads can catch fish but there were things that gave other anglers the edge. by the time you find out some lad has ten fish up on you in your zone. i am going to write down everything i think made a difference and witnessed others do. the info will be there for the panel. i dont think it is the answer to the team selection but it will help with sending a team prepared for everything. it was a massive effort on behalf of all and everyone tried hard. thanks for the interest lads. have to go and unpack everything now. my box looks like it was in the tumble drier.

[Al]

Very strong team there some great anglers when will we hear news?

Yeah looking forward to the resuls myself, I'm sure the lads will do well
They had four days practise and four days fishing so should know by Wed/thursday probably...This info came from mark so thats probably wrong knowing him he usually doesn't know what day it is

Al you have just lost your duty free

Cheers for the smokes