Bass being commercially exploited again!?

[JimC]

Done Deal Lads

That reply is the stock reply being sent out since mid-summer.

There has been nothing decided yet.

[hugo]

Done Deal Lads

That reply is the stock reply being sent out since mid-summer.

There has been nothing decided yet.

I recently emailed a contact in the Marine Institute to get their position and that's also what I was told. They do not appear at this stage to have the information on which to base a decision:

There is no plan as far as i am aware. The issue has been discussed between DAFF and industry on request from industry. The feeling of industry is that as non irish vessels fish for bass in the english channel and western approaches and southern celtic sea why cant irish vessels retain bass when they are fishing in these waters. The implications, for the abundance of bass on the irish coast, of the existing non irish fishery for bass in these areas and any inclusion of irish vessels in the bass fishery in these areas depends on the stock structure which will be determined by adult migration and dispersal of eggs and larvae. There is i think no definitive finding on what the stock structure is but that is the information that should inform the technical advice.

[teacher]

done deal lads

I have it on good authority that its not a done deal at this stage. Tony Killeen's letter only shows how little work he or his department have done on this. They are copying verbatim parts of the FIF proposal. His letter is also very offensive to recreational anglers and people need to say this.

If people haven't already done so, they should write to Tony Killeen and Conor Lenihan now. If they have already written they should write again to reply to Mr Killeen's letter.

One of the most important points worth making about Tony Killeen's letter is in relation to this comment:

Given the overall economic situation and the challenges facing fishermen generally, I am anxious to pursue any proposal that would create additional commercial fishing opportunities for the Irish fleet.

Ask the Junior Minister if he thinks opening the Commercial Bass fishery will create enough jobs to replace the jobs lost in the recreational angling sector as a result. Tell him he needs to be sure about his answer to this before making any decision. We're not just talking about our hobby, we talking about the livelihood of guides, boat operators, and many others.

[JimH]

Let me say this to you all at this time - IT IS NOT A DONE DEAL at this stage - a defeatist attitude does nothing more than absolve yourself from any responsibility or valid attempt to do something -

Re- Read and look VERY CLOSELY at the Ministers letter and read it for the insult to Irish Angling, Irish Anglers and all of the other ancilliary services and businesses connected not only to the bass fishing in this country but to ALL angling - Thats what it is -

IT IS NOT OVER BY A LONG SHOT

[red]

ive replied to his letter already,

"Given the overall economic situation and the challenges facing fishermen generally, I am anxious to pursue any proposal that would create additional commercial fishing opportunities for the Irish fleet".

i asked if he considered fishermens jobs to be more important than hotel/B&B staff, tackle shop staff, guides etc...
i also asked if he had any idea why the fishermen were running out of things to catch other than Bass and that because they've killed off most other species that it would only be a question of time before the Bass were also killed off. What would they fish for then?? Their jobs would be in danger again but the jobs of the staff i mentioned above would also be long gone.

"It is important to remember that the Irish vessels are precluded from fishing for bass in our waters"

i also asked that if it was illegal for the irish vessels to land Bass, how come they were allowed to get away with it time and time again.
i mentioned that Bass AND salmon were bringing huge amounts of tourist money to Ireland each year and questioned why the two fish were treated so differently when it came to netting and protection.


i sent the email on tuesday but im still waiting for a reply. if i dont get one by monday ill print off the letter and post it to him.
i still havent even got one responce from the 5 local councilors i emailed. ill be looking forward to slamming the door in their faces when they come knocking again

[lure fisher]

Good work Red

I got the same standard letter and agree with points made by Jim H and Teacher. I have written a reply and copied the letter to Conor Lenihan making similar points to the ones you have stated. This is the message that we need to continually deliver.

can i suggest that you should reply to his letter by letter and not email as a letter has greater impact and he wrote back to you responding to yourt initial email.


Again, keep up the good work


A

[JimC]

It is important to remember that the Irish vessels are precluded from fishing for Bass in our waters

Irish boats are precluded from fishing in Irish waters. Are Irish boats precluded from fishing in offshore waters and landing bass in UK ports? My understanding is that they are not (I am open to correction here).

If this valuable offshore fishery for bass exists then are there many Irish boats catching and landing bass in UK ports? I think not. Landings of bass by foreign boats into UK and Welsh ports YTD Sept 2009 were 13 tonnes. Landings of bass by UK boats into England & Wales YTD Sept 2009 were 435 tonnes.

Let’s not kid ourselves here; the main UK bass fishery is an inshore one. There is interesting reading on the results of CFEAS tagging here

Whilst 88% of the recaptures of bass tagged inshore were taken by UK fisheries inside the UK 12-mile zone and 3 % were reported from the offshore pair-trawl fishery, 59% of the recaptures of bass tagged in the offshore pair-trawl fishery were made inshore along the UK coast, and 32% in the offshore pair trawl fishery. Most of the remaining 9% of recaptures were taken by UK vessels fishing outside 12 miles. Taking into account the likelihood of a tagged bass being available to be recaptured and reported (4-5 times more likely for bass tagged inshore, chiefly because they survive better than even selected pair-trawl caught fish) and the numbers of bass caught in the respective fisheries, an average of 40 fish tagged inshore were recaptured each year from the UK inshore fishery, and 5 fish from the offshore fishery. This indicates that for every 9 bass that could potentially be caught in the inshore fishery around England and Wales in the period 2000 - 2004, one would be available to be caught by another country's vessel (fishing outside 6 miles). This suggests that the effects of management measures implemented in the UK inshore fishery are largely restricted to that fishery.

There is more general infohere

One would have to say that the “offshore” fishery proposal is little more than a “fig-leaf”.
I have no doubt that the Fisheries Boards and Marine Inst. will advise the government correctly.

[jd]

I have posters printed in a3 size (75 colour, 75 b&w) I'm working in city centre if people want to collect some for tackle shops (especially shops outside Dublin). Thanks to Tony for looking after this

John

[kerrywez]

Signed few days ago. You might be interested to know that we are not alone here, I got the link, to the petition, from World Sea Fishing forums so I should imagine that they will have a lot of members signing the petition. I also sent the link to friends who have signed it and forwarded it to their angling friends and in one case to his clients.

Regards Wez

[John D]

I strongly agree with the sentiment and belief that this is certainly not over yet.

I urge anyone that is engaging in correspondence with ministers to do so by writing and posting. This is far more effective. If you haven't got the time or can't afford to write and post then of course continue to write by e-mail. Whatever you do make sure you're not discouraged to a point where you take no action at all.

I think the fisheries boards will advise the ministers to keep the fishery closed but I'm not so sure about the marine institue. From what I understand it's the marine institute's current advice that is making the FIF's proposal so strong. However I am also led to believe that this advice from the marine institue is way off target and grossly incorrect. I've been told why this is so, I understood it at the time but I didn't understand it enough. I didn't understand it to the point where I could use it in a debate. My priority over the next few hours is to find out why this advice is incorrect, add to this all the other reasons why the fishery should remain closed, type it out and print it off then post it in response to Minister Killeen and send Minister Lenihan a copy too.

I was at the bass stand at the Ireland angling expo on Saturday and I can tell you all now that there are many concerned and passionate bass anglers out there on our side!!

[high low]

Hello,

my name is Paul and I'm a bass angler from Holland. I've had the pleasure of fishing for Irish bass last august in Co. Kerry. My fishing guide recently brought the FIF-proposal to my attention and las t monday I have sent a letter to mr. Lenihan urging my concerns and stressing the importance of preserving bass from a tourist point of view.

When I visited Ireland, I was well impressed by the bag limits, size limits and the closed season. Bass in Holland are being exploited commercially on a massive scale. They are an un-quoted species and commercial fisherman have sussed out their migratory routes and are reaping havoc amongst our bass stocks. On top of that, commercial fisherman are allowed to put their nets out everywhere, as close as 20 meters offshore.
At the moment we are discussing some legislation foor commercial fisherman to put their nets out at least 250 meters off shore. Crazy, but that's the situation we are dealing with.

In Holland, we don't have a bag limit and the size limit is only 36cm, these are fish that haven't had the chance to spawn. Even some "sport fisherman" catch loads of bass and sell them for a with profit on the black market.

I just wanted to point out the situation in Holland and I hope you will succeed in your struggle against this proposal.

Good luck, Paul.

[Mohawk]

Welcome aboard Paul!

It's all up in the air at present due to lack of any concrete information coming from the men in suits! Nobody really knows what's happening.

I wonder do you participate on any angling forums in Holland may-be you can post a link to this thread on them and or post an image of one of Tommy's posters for Dutch anglers that visit Ireland to let their feelings be heard on the issues facing the Irish bass

[teacher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vh_cJWfNRc

http://www.irishbass.org/

[Tomaszek]

What is the idea behind becoming irishbass friend?

[teacher]

It's just a way for people to add their support to the campaign and provide an email address to receive updates. It sounds nicer than "registering" and membership isn't the right word either.

There are a few changes happening with the "organisation" and I'm sure there'll be an update soon. There's a lot going on the background at the moment.

[righthook]

Hi Guys,

Only got back to fishing last year. Out fishing today for the first time this year. On my return got an email with the pettition. Signed it.

I've read a number of the posts on the site, there are links to links and contraditions etc. JimH seems a lead activist.

Can someone direct me to the most concise version of where we are on this.

I've a new kid and am up most of the night anyway at the moment and would be willing to get involved in pushing this. Our rivers are in a bad enough state the sea can't be restocked by local angling clubs.

Await direction.

[url][/url]

[TropicThunder]

If someone were to speak to Conor Lenihan directly about the dangers of reopening this stock for commercial exploitation by the FIF, what key- concise- points should one make?

edit: jonnyB's post on page 14 is what I was looking for sorry

[dfella25]

Tony Killeen has been named as a possible runner for Willie O'Dea's former position as Minister for defence in some media this morning. If this happens it may mean lobbying a new TD that would fill Killeen's role. It could be an open door or another brick wall.

[chrisfeeney30]

Article about "irish bass need our help" in this months total sea fishing magazine.

[John D]

Thanks dfella25. That's certainly important information that we should all be made aware of the minute it comes into play.

For anyone looking for some points to bring to the attention of Minister Killeen and/or Minister Lenihan when writing to them here they are. Of course they are open to 'healthy and factual manipulation'. They're also open to correction if anyone has spotted something I have said that is not true. If you like you can elaborate on certain points too but in my opinion you're better off writing your letter as short as possible. Anyway here they are:

1. Will opening the Commercial Bass fishery create enough jobs to replace the jobs lost in the recreational angling sector as a result?
2. A few years ago it was estimated that recreational bass angling was worth over €8 million to the Irish economy. Surely it’s worth even more now and even more again going into the future!
3. Other sectors, especially tourism, are also having very challenging times. The Irish bass resource belongs to the people of Ireland. It is the duty and responsibility of any minister involved to get the best return from that resource for the country of Ireland. There is no doubt that the best return can only be achieved by recreational angling. Not only is it the best return to the economy it is also sustainable and with some protection will increase into the future.
4. The FIF base their proposal on data taken from a UK scientific report when in actual fact this report is not relevant to their proposal and many of the findings set out in that paper are now being disputed.
5. In the FIF proposal they cited the 2007 CEFAS report as justification for their proposal. The FIF claim that this report suggests that the offshore fishery bass stock is in a healthy state. IT IS NOT!
6. Contrary to what the FIF proposal suggests Irish boats are not precluded from this fishery, they are just not allowed to land bass in Irish ports. Many Irish boats already land their catch in UK ports.
7. The proposal states that the area the FIF proposes to target sea bass in (south of 51.30' N in area VII) is 50 km off the south east coast of Ireland. It didn’t mention the fact that 51.30' N hits the coast at Mizen Head in County Cork.
8. By allowing Irish vessels to land Bass in Irish ports, enforcing the current legislation with regard to inshore stocks will become impossible and several sources in the fishery boards have already accepted this fact.
9. The FIF also suggest a range of measures to ensure no exploitation of the inshore stock at the moment but even a casual glance at several EU reports will show that Irish commercial fishermen often ignore rules and regulations with regard to many marine species
10. The proposal states that while Irish vessels are precluded from fishing for bass in our waters no such preclusions apply to other EU registered vessels. This point is simply not true. No EU vessels are allowed to fish inside Ireland's 6 mile limit and only limited historic rights exist for EU vessels between the 6 and 12 mile limit and these vessels have never been shown to specifically target bass.
11. As is stands the Sea Fisheries Protection Authority takes no responsibility for bass protection and this falls to the regional fishery boards.
12. Why are fishermen running out of things to catch other than Bass? Because they've killed off most other species, will it only be a question of time before the Bass are also killed off? What will they fish for then? Their jobs would be in danger again but the jobs of the staff mentioned above would also be long gone.

Have fun writing or typing - and don't give up!!
John D.