Cause for concern?

[seanie35]

[quote="JimH"]S35

I've never really experienced a 'high summer Bass lull' - some unpredictability during August perhaps, but this particular lull has extended since June 16th [quote]
This is why your a professional bass guide and i am not

[hugo]

Bass are now widely established right round Britain, with several very good new fisheries developing off the NE coast and SW Scotland.

I've come across that info in several places in recent times. When I lived in Scotland in the 1970s the nearest bass to me were on the Irish south coast, where they were plentiful. Is it at all possible that with various climatic/marine/baitfish changes, those southern populations have migrated north? The mackeral are now up as far as Iceland in pursuit of the sprat.

[lastcast]

I am not a marine biologist, Jim. I did not say that there are historical records showing a prevalence of red tides since 2007. You are putting words in my mouth. I offered it as possible and reasonable explanation of what has happened that may merit further exploration.

FWIW I think the article in the Marine Times is just another load of unsubstantiated tripe cooked up by self-serving pressure groups.

I did not say that the bass fishing in the UK is better than Ireland, I said that it is patently improving generally, which it is. Sure some well known hot spots such as the Portland race have been heavily exploited, but the general picture is good and improving.

[lastcast]

For those of you still in denial, have a look at this website, it might open your eyes, and this is NOT the angling press.

http://www.whitbyseaanglers.co.uk/categ ... s-fishing/

Until relatively recently (last 15 years or so), there were no bass to speak of in the NE of England or SW Scotland. In the NE, they are heavily fished commercially with nets, they even set nets on the shore in the intertidal zone, and yet the shore bass fishing continues to improve.

Yes, anglers from the UK continue to come here for the bass, but they are catching what, exactly? I think Jim can provide up to date information on this one.

I think (and it is only my opinion) that we are going through a lean spell, but there are massive forces at work here (spear fishermen? give me a break!), and they are called NATURE.
(Now if someone could prove an anthropogenic cause to phytoplankton blooms in the oceans that would be different, LOL)

[JimH]

This is where it gets ridiculous and forums break down -

LC - I am trying to understand something, simple, I asked the question if you were a biologist to enable me to ask a question in relation to red tides and how they work and if there was any historical correlation between weather and their prevalence off our coasts. I felt an answer coming from someone qualified was going to be valid - lots of people can just copy and paste from any internet source in relation to anything.

I was looking for an answer or possible discussion at least from someone whom I needed to know was qualified to inform me correctly.

I have customers here all of the time from NE england, Scotland, Denmark, Norway - all witnessing a potential new emerging fishery - they like to come here to learn how to catch the fish and to experience the Irish fishery. Im very much aware of what goes on in the angling press,its part of the job but I never confuse reality with a magazine or unrealistic journalists. I listen to the people on the ground and their angling experiences.

Can I ask simply - if you know the conditions under which red tide is or can be created? And is there a correlation in realtion to weather conditions?

On a wider issue our concerns lie with the issue above as regards opening the commercial fishery

[lastcast]

Jim, I have already told you I am NOT a marine biologist and as such I am NOT qualified to tell you about the causes and history of red tides. You asked me if I was a Biolgist with marine fishery connections, and I answered honestly. I am just a recreational angler who has an opinion as valid as anyone else's, until someone proves otherwise. I'm sorry if it doesn't fit with your preconceptions, and you are frustrated, but I put it forward to add to the discussion, which I think is interesting.

Just for the record I am retired Chartered Biologist in a non-related field. I do not work for any government body or group. As for anglers on the ground, I have fished in the UK for over 50 years, and I know lots of anglers there. Sure there are people everywhere who tell you things aren't what they used to be, including here (why are we having this discussion?) However when it comes to the UK I know from my own experiences that there have been decades of lean spells and in the areas where i have fished, the bass fishing has never been so good.

[lastcast]

Jim, I have a lot of respect for you, but you state that you never confuse reality with magazines or unrealistic journalists, and "anyone can cut and paste" yet you yourself have posted an article from a Trade journal representing a group with commercial interests which is highly dubious in it's veracity.

[JimH]

Im not sure where you are coming from or how you have interpreted this post in any way but Im going to stop here right now -

The article was mailed to me yesterday by John Quinlan of the Irish bass organisation - he has major concerns in relation to the article (background information) of which not many people are fully aware or understand.

I believe that any signal from John Quinlan and his team is a valid one

Thanks for your detailed and informative clarification on all points

[Donnyboy1]

Bass fishing in the UK and france are completly different, in that they are in much deeper water and are known fish that you would catch on wrecks!!

Here they are genetically different in that they inhabit much shallower water.

while its true you can catch the odd ones in shallow water in UK (like we catch cod in shallow waters here on occasion) its a different type of bass fishing in our waters and thats what I expect is a key point for us.

I'm afraid thats about as far as similirities go...

Because Irish Bass are so different and there are limited studies of them, its really impossible to draw any comparisions besides the most superficial to non irish bass.

Likewise with the absense of any major studies undertaken any attempt to draw correlation between a percieved lack of fish and weather conditions seems futile.

Nature... it is what it is...

In other news... a few friends were out last night in wexford and there were a large number of bass around and some to quite a large size so it seems maybe things are settleing back down... Will keep an eye on it for a few more weeks.

[Tommy B]

In other news... a few friends were out last night in wexford and there were a large number of Bass around and some to quite a large size so it seems maybe things are settleing back down... Will keep an eye on it for a few more weeks.

Thats good to hear,, at last!!

[Donnyboy1]

Thats good to hear,, at last!!

But they could go again just as quickly... espcially with more bad weather tues/wed...

[Deleted User 3157]

This is a very interesting and at the same time very worrying thread. I only fish for Bass with a fly rod, so conditions, weather, and all the other parameters have to be exactly right for me to have any kind of success. Given I only fish 1 day a week, it’s understandable that my catch rate has always remained fairly low and I’m not exactly the best placed to give any concrete evidence regarding diminishing catch returns.

However, even with such a low catch rate I have noticed the same patterns as Jim, with this year being particularly difficult. I caught my last Bass back in May and 10 trips later I’m still looking for another. These are from marks I would expect maybe 2 or 3 Bass a session. They are simply not there. The worrying factor here is that the baitfish that draw the Bass to my areas are present, so why no Bass? This is a little odd.

I am hoping that the constant stream of North/North westerly winds and the so called ‘Red tide’ have had a major influence on the Bass movements around our shores. Whether this is me as an angler simply looking for a feasible angling excuse or whether something more sinister is at work only time will tell.

I would like to offer just one observation. Is there any possibility that the Bass shoals have switched position around our coastline? The reason I ask this is that I fish an area that while reasonable good for Bass is simply not in the same league as some of our better known southern coastal areas. I have noticed in the last few years that the numbers of big Bass (high singles into low double figures) has increased significantly in my area, and areas that maybe a decade ago where regarded as ‘Barren Bass ground’ now hold Bass far more regularly. Could it be we have fewer Bass around our coastline (due to commercial fishing/netting etc) but far more suitable habitat than ever before (more water for the Bass to choose from). Are they simply just spread out over a greater area than before.

I will watch this thread with interest.

[razor2]

This is a very interesting and at the same time very worrying thread. I only fish for Bass with a fly rod, so conditions, weather, and all the other parameters have to be exactly right for me to have any kind of success. Given I only fish 1 day a week, it’s understandable that my catch rate has always remained fairly low and I’m not exactly the best placed to give any concrete evidence regarding diminishing catch returns.

However, even with such a low catch rate I have noticed the same patterns as Jim, with this year being particularly difficult. I caught my last Bass back in May and 10 trips later I’m still looking for another. These are from marks I would expect maybe 2 or 3 Bass a session. They are simply not there. The worrying factor here is that the baitfish that draw the Bass to my areas are present, so why no Bass? This is a little odd.

I am hoping that the constant stream of North/North westerly winds and the so called ‘Red tide’ have had a major influence on the Bass movements around our shores. Whether this is me as an angler simply looking for a feasible angling excuse or whether something more sinister is at work only time will tell.

I would like to offer just one observation. Is there any possibility that the Bass shoals have switched position around our coastline? The reason I ask this is that I fish an area that while reasonable good for Bass is simply not in the same league as some of our better known southern coastal areas. I have noticed in the last few years that the numbers of big Bass (high singles into low double figures) has increased significantly in my area, and areas that maybe a decade ago where regarded as ‘Barren Bass ground’ now hold Bass far more regularly. Could it be we have fewer Bass around our coastline (due to commercial fishing/netting etc) but far more suitable habitat than ever before (more water for the Bass to choose from). Are they simply just spread out over a greater area than before.

I will watch this thread with interest.

I could not have said it better myself some very interesting points you have made here. But just one other thing bait fish has a huge effect on bass at this time of year .Maybe beaches and the likes don't have as many bass now but if they did it would still be hard work to get a bass on a lure or bait due to the bait fish in the water the are there but not feeding as hard and will be very picky on what they take.

[lastcast]

Jim H said

"Im not sure where you are coming from or how you have interpreted this post in any way."

I have no idea what you are talking about, Jim. Hmm....so what was the point of this thread? If someone offers a different point of view they get attacked and then you take your ball home. Good luck!

[Divisadero]

I read a report from a Cork lure angler on another forum who has also noted that far fewer fish are been caught than in previous years. He has still managed to catch fish but all show signs of what he thinks may be net damage.

Re Red Tide Algal Blooms there is plenty on Google here is a link re a previous 2005 Irish outbreak:

https://www.marine.ie/home/aboutus/news ... ported.htm

[Hort101]

Im down by carnesore point and there is not a bass to be caught anywhere.. Some say its to much rain and the fish aint liking all the fresh water.. does anybody else have any ideas on why bass are not being caught..??

[andy k 85]

At least the rabbits are coming back in numbers this year give me something else to do. Its like everything you get one good year and then you get a few bad years its just a big cycle

[Tomaszek]

Hi guys

Yeah, we all heard and agreed that this year is rather poor result wise and the fishing is quiet. This goes not only for bass fishing but also for the boat fishing for usual species. Also freshwater guys got poor season trying for the usual species there. In Spain guys chasing catfish are reporting poor catches this year. Experienced that first hand In all cases the weather is also unusual. Much colder and much more rain. What is worth noting is that fish cought is usually bigger but fewer in numbers, compared to previous years. This opinion is based on various reports and conversations I had, as well as my own experience. Said that, I’m aware that it is very limited information and I’m not pretending that I did any sort of wide research. This is just the picture I’ve got by consuming my usual dose of fishing reports, plus my own observations. It all seems to match the pattern.

The article in the photo is certainly very worrying but I believe it is a separate topic.

[Divisadero]

[quote="Tomaszek"

The article in the photo is certainly very worrying but I believe it is a separate topic.[/quote]

Yes Tommy I agree that the latest threat from the commercial lobby as posted by JimH on the first page of this thread deserves to be highlighted within its own thread/sticky.

I have just sent an e-mail to the Minister and posted the info on another forum.

Walter

[Tanglerat]

Just in from the pub - I'll mod a new topic tomorrow out of this.

12 y.o. Redbreast is niiiiiiice.