The closed season for bass needs to be amended?

[hugo]

Smooth Hounds run the same beaches at this time and it is impossible to be selective. Yes one could put the rods away for a month, fish different venues, or target other species, which as responsible anglers we do. However May and early June are synonymous with Smooth Hound fishing.

A very interesting debate.

Up here, the main activity around now is sea trout in estuaries and various shore venues. Local Bass and sea trout hunt much the same terrain for much the same food sources, and if bass are around they will go for almost anything you use for the trout. Is anybody seriously suggesting that sea trout anglers - who pay for the licence - should stay home for another month because of the bass closure? Catch and return is inevitably what happens in these circumstances.

That said I agree that tinkering with the ban at this juncture would not look good elsewhere, and that proper scientific studies are urgently needed.

[MAC]

With all due respect to those that have posted so far, and the points are well made, please read the initial thread. The debate is about amending current legislation not removing it, because the essence of the legislation, ie, the protection of atlantic Bass works.

However, twenty years on there are obvious flaws in the bye law which need serious consideration, and the potential implementation of a catch and release policy within the current period 15th May to 15th June has to be considered. Also an extension of this period back into April, a possibility as well.

Furthermore, while developing a recreational tourist Bass fishery in our southern counties we shoot ourselves in the foot by closing the Bass fishery for a month at the beginning of the recreational Bass angling tourist season. As they say, "only in Ireland".

Bass are fractional spawners which spawn in deep water off our coast not along our shoreline. Therefore the fish along are beaches are well capable "in principle" of being targeted on a catch and release basis. This principle needs to be researched if a viable tourist product is to be created. A viable tourist product strengthens the call for a recreational Bass fishery. Sea angling needs to think outside the box.

Some very good points there Ashley. I would be of tend to be of the same frame of mind with this one..., but would like to make sure there is some research to back the change up. I also like the idea of pushing it back to April as we have heard many stories of Bass milting when caught in April and it seems less frequest in June The only problem I see is that making legislation in Ireland is very difficult. I would be worried about the the commericial lobby coming in at the same time and looking for the change to be in favour of commericial fishing.

Sorry about the very short reply.... back to work for me.

Excellent thread and I'm looking forward to catching up with it later.

Kev

[rabg]

a very interesting thread folks.you guys must have the first and only close season for a saltwater species i know of in the uk. having never fished the venue the op was on its hard to comment ,but the venue i fish for hounds produces bass ,hounds ,tope,plaice,ray,gurnard ,dogs,codling ,dabs and a few others.these fish come at all ranges and some of the bigger hounds are caught on worm baits.in short ,its impossible to specifically target anything on it by varying bait or tactics ,especially for the bass ,like cod they will eat anything you can put on a hook !
i understand the close season is to protect spawning fish.prior to the close season was it a regular occurence to catch fish during this time with roe and milt in them ? are fish in spawning condition still caught outwith the close season ?
if there are no restrictions on venue ,bait or fishing times ,surely it just has to be accepted that bass will be a bycatch when you are fishing for other things ?
i think the bag limit measures are pretty strict and would imagine they contribute in a big way to the current stock levels considering the amount of recreational bass fishing that goes on in ireland.im assuming that bass are available 12 months of the year in ireland so the 1 month close season is not too much of a hardship ,like it would be in areas of scotland say ,where they are only seasonal visitors and only available to catch for around 6 months of the year.
cheers rab

[hugo]

I also like the idea of pushing it back to April as we have heard many stories of Bass milting when caught in April and it seems less frequest in June Kev

There's a good point - I've seen bass caught up here (not by me!) that were full of roe in late July. Is spawning related to water temps - earlier south, later north - therefore meaning the closed season needs to be staggered according to area, like game fish? This is why that research is sorely needed before any decisions.

[teacher]

Its always worth debating whether the protection measures in place are the most appropriate or whether we can improve on them, so I think its a good thing that Ashley has brought this up.

My own personal opinion is that we should consider whether C&R from 1st January to 30th June would be better for the stock than the current closed season (i.e. targetting of bass prohibited) from 15th May to 15th June.

Our minimum size needs to go up (e.g. 45cm). We need a maximum size.

I also think we need carcass tagging instead of daily limit, with a reasonable number of tags per angler (10, 20, 25 ???). The tags could be free (or very cheap) if you have another form of identification available, e.g. passport, driving license. i.e. you wouldn't automatically need a fishing licence if you had another form of ID that could be verified against the tag by a fisheries officer. Easily done with technology today.

[kstaff]

I know it's late and I've not a drink taken but gents lets get real here for a second. If you catch a Bass during the closed season release it!! The Bass stocks are healthy and have been for many years. For that reason no change to current status is required!!

If the only serious concern relating to Bass during the Ban is catching one then wake up call time.
Bass are thriving as the huge amount of illegal and obviously profitable netting and poaching would suggest. Instead of this usual debate about closed season caught fish why not put serious efforts into having the netting and poaching highlighted and stopped! Wheres the 3 page debate about having an existing law enforced and policed. Why are we not debating that fact with the people who made the Bass laws are they not accountable for ignoring the law breakers?

The Bans working and does not require any change, it needs to be enforced and unless that seriously happens the habits of both responsible, irresponsible and illegal anglers will not change one bit.

The over hype of Bass has alot to do with it's over priced value too it seems, and as it's easy to catch in great numbers it's a very attractive way to make a fast buck illegally with little or no consequences for doing so.

[teacher]

Keith, you're right to say that in comparison with the damage done by illegal netting, catching bass during the closed season is practically irrelevant.

But I have to disagree with some of what you said.

The Bass stocks are healthy and have been for many years. For that reason no change to current status is required!!

Bass stocks are healthy compared with what? Cod stocks? Tope stocks? Bass stocks are only a tiny fraction of the levels they were at in the 1960's. Read Ed Fahy's article in Fishing news in March.

Instead of this usual debate about closed season caught fish why not put serious efforts into having the netting and poaching highlighted and stopped!

That's already happening. It doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss whether there might be better regulations for anglers. If we had C&R for more of the spawning season, instead of a completely closed season, we wouldn't need to have the debate about whether its OK to target bass in the closed season. It would be for more clear cut and much easier to enforce.

The over hype of Bass has alot to do with it's over priced value too it seems

That wouldn't explain why thousands of anglers come to Ireland from France and Britain, where commercially caught Bass is more readily available. Something attracts them to our Bass fishing. I don't think its hype. Its something we should should be proud of. Maybe we've become too used to having great bass fishing on our doorsteps.

[kstaff]

Bass stocks are healthy compared to Bass stocks!!! Forget Cod and Tope we are talking about Bass, also forget the 60's those days are over move on from that too! The profitable industry that brings all those anglers here also points to healthy levels as does the illegal industry. What I don't like or agree with is this cake and eat it mentality constantly enforced on people concerning Bass. Don't catch Bass they are too precious but hey if you come from the UK or Europe with a few quid fish away. As for whats being done regarding poaching etc, where are the good news stories highlighting success?

[teacher]

Bass stocks are healthy compared to Bass stocks!!! Forget Cod and Tope we are talking about Bass, also forget the 60's those days are over move on from that too!

The FIF loves to hear us anglers saying that Bass are healthy. They will say that "healthy" means "commercially exploitable". That's why a comparison with the 1960's stock level is important.

"Between 1985 and 1995 Bass numbers in Irish waters reached their lowest levels. Estimates, based on anglers’ catches, suggest populations were 1.4% of their levels prior to 1967. In 1987 a ban on commercial fishing was introduced but five years later, Irish-caught Bass were still on sale in shops and restaurants. The ban on sale and on fishing appears to have arrested the decline and, in the following decade, Bass numbers increased threefold. Illegal fishing has not however been eliminated."

[adam2040]

Bass stocks seem to have improved, but there is a fair way to go before the have recovered and the only way of telling when they have recovered is by looking at stocks from the past.
Lets concentrate on the people who are doing the most damage and let the law abiding anglers go fishing.

[kstaff]

That's the point I'm trying to make Adam thanks

[ShaneH]

Bass stocks are healthy compared to Bass stocks!!! Forget Cod and Tope we are talking about Bass, also forget the 60's those days are over move on from that too! The profitable industry that brings all those anglers here also points to healthy levels as does the illegal industry. What I don't like or agree with is this cake and eat it mentality constantly enforced on people concerning Bass. Don't catch Bass they are too precious but hey if you come from the UK or Europe with a few quid fish away. As for whats being done regarding poaching etc, where are the good news stories highlighting success?

very well said keith

[adam2040]

Let’s say Joe Bloggs decides with the nice weather he is going to go fishing tonight on his local beach which throws up the chance of a Bass. Of he goes to get bait and meets another bait collector who tells him that it is currently the close season for Bass. Joe has a few options:

A) Joe being a law abiding citizen decides not to go fishing as he be breaking the law if he caught a Bass.

B) Joe goes fishing in the hope that he does not catch a Bass but if he does he will return the fish as quickly as possible and hope there is no fisheries officer watching

C) Joe decides shag this no one is going to tell me when or what I can fish for and goes fishing hoping to get a bass because he knows he wont get caught.

Currently both options B + C are violating the bass laws, obviously people who choose option C are the reason why the law needs to be enforced.

Those who pick option B should not be penalised for going fishing and trying to do the right thing .

So by modifying the current law only people who choose C would be violating the bass laws.

[Ashley Hayden]

And in effect Adam, plan B is what Teacher advocated, C and R, which is the way forward, it removes all ambiguity while still putting the onus on the angler to do the right thing. Enforcement and management of stocks is simplified for fisheries staff and appointed waterkeepers.

Regarding kstaffs comment on the 60's. In this instance looking back is the right approach. It is not just an aspiration to want stock levels of any species to be where they were 30 or 40 years ago, it is a right that should have been demanded by the relevant angling bodies decades ago and hammered home every year since. Given that we are in National Biodiversity Week every sea angler should consider this and put it to their clubs.

[KERRY1]

There has been some very good points made in this debate which has got me thinking abit more about my own feelings on the subject which is the whole point of discussions like this being started in the first place - I know!
However, I still don't feel though that changing the current policies/rules with regards to the bass closed season to C & R is the way forward. I don't know what is the way forward but I just don't think that the originally suggestion is a good idea.
What has came out of this whole thing is that we all have one thing in common - we are all very passionate about our bass fishing in our country, however the differences in opinion we have divide us slighty which is a shame.
In the current climate I feel that we should be renewing our fight and focusing our attentions on trying to stop the government from passing laws/proposals to open up our bass stocks to the commercial sector , this is the real threat that faces us as anglers and it should be this that we are concentrating on trying to get sorted out before we even think about anything else.
This is a very important issue that not only should we not forget about but it's one we should be standing united on.

[oneillphil]

Ok just read through the thread,
Can I ask one thing doesn't the ban as it is by stating you cant fish for a bass or keep one
therefore imply that you have to C&R if you do accidentally hook one. So the only debate is
the timing &/or extending of it.
Other closed seasons both here or abroad have proved no matter what the target is fish,
deer, Pheasant, Duck, when the season opens people will come no matter what.

The way I see it there is a law there that says you can't attempt to fish for bass from the 15th
to 15th, ok that's fine no problem I don't, but there are plenty who still do and plenty more
who either don't know about the closed season or don't care.
Should we not be enforcing what exists and highlighting it before we go changing it.

There are marks around my area which are pretty much bass only not too much else is caught
there and they aren't smoothie beaches but from the 15th to 15th it was business as normal
cars lining the road and guys fishing the beach, there have been guys from fishing clubs lure
fishing for Bass in the same area and believe me they are not employing C&R, was anything
done, Hell No. will anything be done, Hell No.
Are these not the people who are supposed to know better.

For the guys out looking for smoothies, of which I am one. The odd bass does turn up (happened
to me just not during the closed season and it was on Rag) not too much you can do about it
as Bass will take just about anything they come across, rag, lug, crab, sand eel, squid,
Mackerel unhook it and put it back no harm no foul.

If the law was changed to C&R only with no ban as such so people can fish for bass, so who is
going to make sure the fish are released when the ban that exists is not enforced. Surely this
puts more work on the fisheries guys as there would be more people fishing for bass and the
rules still have to be enforced. You cannot rely on people in this country to do the right thing I
think the speeding & drink driving laws have proved that with no enforcement you might as well
not have the law in the first place.

[southernstar]

The bass that are being caught now are full of roe.

Dont know what the closed season is about.

[The Austrian]

The Bass that are being caught now are full of roe.

Dont know what the closed season is about.

yep, but it's open season for tourism

[JimH]

can you measure the impact in terms of recovery in relation to having a closed season from the 15th to 15th for the last twenty years? My guess would be that its minimal - the major impact is the closure of the commercial fishery.

Oh I seem to have forgotten we dont have any DATA to support this -

Fish are not smart they are instinctive dates are irrelevant- an extended closed season with C+R awareness and anglers on the beaches sounds like a small amendment

Two anglers on curracloe beach were recently asked to move by a fisheries officer - YET

I recently supplied photographs to the ERFB of the usual suspects in action in Wexford as I have done for the past few YEARS - these people are still in action TODAY does anyone want MORE photographs from at least SEVEN different locations

It a great little country so dont get me started

And please dont __ start knocking Irish Angling Tourism as well

Like I have always said theres a big difference between an Irish angling experience and putting a head on a a bed - theres enough EGOS here at the moment claiming thats what they are about -