Why do people kill undersized bass?

[Teegerstk]

I've seen a few old reports on here on Wexford, and they featured taking bass from Ferrycarrig Bridge. The report states that it was alive with very small bass, and that people were still taking them. Another post on the Shore QnA states that anglers were fishing off of the Wexford Town Bridge and taking undersized bass.

Why?
I can't imagine killing a bass, no matter what size. Such a beautiful and rare(ish) creature, why are they killed? Especially undersized bass, if you were to eat one, what would you get off it? It seems like they have been overfished too much.

Now, I am a beginner, so I wouldn't know about bass stocks in recent or earlier years, so could someone enlighten me on why people take small bass and why they overfish them?

Thanks

[JimC]

Why? People have different standards...
It is not just confined to bass either !

[greg]

part of the problem I think is that there is no size limits set for sea fish bar in competitions.so you can take any size fish you want and any species.plus in some parts of the coast a 10 inch bass would be classed as a good fish. which is very sad but that is the reality.i think to sea fish are seen as edible as coarse fish are not usually eaten in Ireland by irish citizens.

[Teegerstk]

part of the problem I think is that there is no size limits set for sea fish bar in competitions.so you can take any size fish you want and any species.plus in some parts of the coast a 10 inch bass would be classed as a good fish. which is very sad but that is the reality.i think to sea fish are seen as edible as coarse fish are not usually eaten in Ireland by irish citizens.

Yea, I just don't see the point in taking such a small fish, why not take a plump cod, something that you can get a meal off of? A small bass should be returned so that they can at least grow to full size.

[John D]

There is actually a size limit on bass you can legally keep - it's 42cm

[shortcircuit]

And we must remind that due to the new EU regulations it's illegal to take any bass between now and the end of june

[John D]

And we must remind that due to the new EU regulations it's illegal to take any bass between now and the end of june

I thought it was May 15th to June 15th - has it changed?

[shortcircuit]

That was the old deal. Like US policy in the middle east, we have regime change!

http://www.topfisher.eu/bass-the-2016-s ... rspective/

JimC's article will give you the lowdown.

No closed season anymore which is great news IMO

[John D]

I never considered the change to the closed season.

So again just to confirm - can we still fish during May 15th to June 15th this year?

John D.

[JimC]

There is a degree of confusion about this. It is not helped by a lack of official comment from IFI.
My understanding is that bass fall between two pieces of legislation. The original bass rules and the new EU Regulations. Ireland need to bring out an SI or suchlike to include sanctions etc. in relation to the EU ruling. There is talk of some move from IFI before mid year. Hopefully they will bring something to cover all IE waters.

In short the areas covered by the EU regs have no closed season. To the letter of the law the west coast above Kerry are not included in the EU regulations so they have a closed season.

My take on this is: I am going to fish through the old closed season as per EU regulation. As per EU regulation: There is a No-take rule in force until July 1 and thereafter there is a 1 fish limit (should I want it).

The following gives a good representation of where we are:

[Paddy002]

so there is actual legislation enforcing these "policies"??

[Paddy002]

http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-re ... tocks.html

"In the interim period, pending legislation, Inland Fisheries Ireland (IFI) is requesting anglers to recognise the need for conservation and to fish according to the regulations that are expected to be introduced shortly i.e. to fish on a catch-and-release basis up to and including June 30th, 2016."

So at present the old bye laws still apply until the legislation goes through?

But they recommend that the angler realises the need for conservation and to currently adhere the incoming legislation?

[JimC]

As I say, there is a degree of confusion about this.
Whatever about the impending extra legislation to supplement the EU Regulations IFI are clear enough on this:
Inland Fisheries Ireland (IFI) is requesting anglers to recognise the need for conservation and to fish according to the regulations that are expected to be introduced shortly i.e. to fish on a catch-and-release basis up to and including June 30th, 2016 Those EU Regulations are now law.

Rather than getting into it here again, There are a couple of threads discussing the EU regulations etc. in the Angling New, Issues.... section. The topic here is "why do people kill under size bass (Or any fish for that matter).

[SeanA101080]

The new EU regulations are still waiting to be signed off by government to become "Irish Law". IFI are encouraging anglers to recognise these new EU regulations but as we stand, the old rules are still "Irish Law", i.e 2 fish bag limit per 24 hours and closed season. Hopefully these new regs will get signed off very soon (before May 15th ), as they are ready and waiting to be signed on the dotted line.

[SeanA101080]

And also IFI have proposed a 50cm MLS for the new regs, which is also good in my eyes.

[JimC]

The new EU regulations are still waiting to be signed off by government to become "Irish Law". IFI are encouraging anglers to recognise these new EU regulations but as we stand, the old rules are still "Irish Law", i.e 2 fish bag limit per 24 hours and closed season. Hopefully these new regs will get signed off very soon (before May 15th ), as they are ready and waiting to be signed on the dotted line.

As said, this has been discussed before in other posts....

The above is Incorrect in the main!
I think you will find that EU Regulations, once published, are the law of the land. The government will have to declare sanction/penalties and sort out warrants etc.... But the EU regulation is law.

[SeanA101080]

Not what I was told the other day Jim when I rang IFI and spoke to one of their officers. He told me until such time as the new EU regs are signed off by government, that the old rules are still Irish Law and if they were to bring someone to court now for keeping 2 bass that it would'nt stand up because the old rules are still in operation in a court of law, and therefore the closed season will be in effect also! So if these are the rules IFI are playing by, then i wont be chancing a go through the closed season, can't afford to get all my gear taken off me! As you said already Jim it's all so clear

[JimC]

Well, the IFI officer you spoke to is incorrect too!

Here is one of the simplest explanations I could find:

Direct effect and direct applicability

The terms direct effect and direct applicability often get confused by students of EU law, they are however important. We shall try to break them down here so that they become straight forward.

Direct applicability
Direct applicability talks about whether an EU law needs a national parliament to enact legislation to make it law in a member state.

EU treaties and EU regulations are directly applicable. They do not need any other acts of parliament in the member state to make them into law. Therefore, once a treaty is signed or a regulation is passed in Brussels by the Council of Ministers it instantly becomes applicable in the member state.

EU directives are not directly applicable. Directives in essence tell member states to do something therefore, when passed they need a piece of legislation to make them into national law.

Direct effect
Direct effect refers to whether individuals can rely on the EU law in domestic courts. There are two types of direct effect – vertical and horizontal.

Vertical direct effect means that you can use EU legislation against a member state.
Horizontal direct effect means that you can use EU legislation against another individual.
Treaties, regulations, directives and direct effect
Treaties and regulations are vertically and horizontally directly effective. Either a treaty or a regulation can be used as a piece of law in a member state court against the state or another individual.

Confusingly directives are not directly effective as they cannot be used in court until they have been enacted by national legislation.

So what happens if the state does not implement a directive?

If a state fails to implement a directive within the time given by the EU then an individual can take the state to court for non-implementation. It is important to remember that in situations when the state has been taken to court the ECJ has adopted a ‘wide perception’ of the state, deeming the state to include all areas of government including schools, NHS trusts and local authorities.

One must however, refrain from seeing this as an entirely one sided process of the EU passing legislation over member sate. As we have seen in module two, member states (in the Council of Ministers) collectively approve these decisions and they are only applicable in community areas (discussed in module 2) and are currently not applicable in areas such as defence, taxation, pensions, social policy etc where national governments remain, in general, the highest authority.

There is reading here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 47&from=EN

As said earlier, the state needs to bring in the sanctions and/or penalties, maybe that is the message IFI Officer was trying to get across .... At this moment there is no sanction/penalty in Ireland for somebody caught in contravention of the EU regulations. You would have to be prosecuted under the Old Irish law as that is the only statute that IFI can operate with... Until the government bring in the sanctions and penalties for the EU regs and amends the warrants etc. So, as IFI recommended (Highlighted in posts below), I am fishing to the new EU regulations.

( While researching the Emergency Measures etc. I have conversed with, amongst others, an EU Regulations Consultant and a Barrister. Of course I am open to correction at any stage! )

[SeanA101080]

It's fairly unsettling that IFI are confused themselves about the whole situation! And in the meantime they're confusing us aswell.

[mickser]

Total ignorance of the rules the law and especially no respect for marine life ?