So Have you ACTUALLY caught a Common Smooth Hound :?:

I've been meaning to bring this up for some time, but TBH I was a bit unsure I heard correctly and nervous of been called an eejit (Again) by the lads.... But to be honest It's been on the fore front of mind for some weeks... so here goes...

I was on pint number 2 (just for clarity's sake) It was February just gone at the specimen awards in the red cow hotel. The introduction and speeches were about half way through. The next speaker up was Dr Stefano Mariani. Dr Stefano heads up the genetic research at UCD and looks after all the scale and tissue samples for specimen ratification......Thanks Stefano.

My ears perked up as genetic sampling is something I find very interesting and this presentation I was really looking forward to.....

Some excellent slides about genetic research in general and how it is changing some previous concepts.... Rudd / bream hybrids have been added to the specimen list as a result of testing and being able to identify them properly...

Twaite Shad do interbreed. Some fish that on visual inspection seemed to be Twaite Shad, turned out to have some Allis genes....

Now to my point.

There has been some very recent research into Smooth Hounds out of UCD recently. Some of you may remember a request from Ed Farrel looking for some tissue samples to aid this research.

In his presentation Dr Stefano talked greatly about smooth hounds and the on going genetic research. He mentioned that ALL of the tissue samples they have tested have been from Starry Smooth Hounds. So far this research suggests that all Smooth Hounds in the Irish sea are indeed Starry Smooth Hounds and that you have to go further south to Spain and the Med to encounter Common Smooth Hounds

What of all the hounds I catch without spots??? I hear you say....
Apparently they are just Starry Smooth Hounds with no Spots.... I brought this up with a few of guys during the evenings scoops.... most dismissed it, but from my mind.... Genetic Research is Genetic Research!!! Right Surely this couldn't be wrong?

I have mailed Dr Stefano informing him of this discussion and hopefully he will chime in with some info.... I also need to make sure I heard correctly, but I assure you it was pint number 2 but until them I ask you

Have you ever really caught a common Smooth Hound


Tight Lines,

Kevin

One paper is here
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/fsn218v1

Large-scale application of the genetic identification method to
the 431 samples of NE Atlantic Mustelus spp. revealed that all
samples belonged to M. asterias. Therefore, there was a 10%
error in the morphological identification of Mustelus spp. from
the area

Interersting stuff MAC.

Il have to get myself one of those certified scales, wouldnt mind going up to the awards next year for a look.

Danny.

Interersting stuff MAC.

Il have to get myself one of those certified scales, wouldnt mind going up to the awards next year for a look.

Danny.

You should give it a look. Very interesting day and the scoops afterwards is great craic.... You never know what nuggets you might get.

do a quick search on scales on the forum. Lots of info. I have a Berkley Tec that certified no problem at all and Jim and a few of the other lads have the Samson Digital scales and have certified it several times.

Kev

Hi,
Its bad enough that i carry species identification books around, but now it seems we need a mobile lab for genetic research!!!!
Nice one,
screeming

Bumping this again, as some hound reports are coming in. Based on the genetic analysis above, the odds are extremely low that anyone is catching common smoothound.

dos it really matter to anglers what the genetics are of a hound in my book as an angler if it has spots its a stary if not its a common and its always been that way for years for all anglers so why complacate things the genetics of fish and what ever els should be kept in the lab and not on the beach

If you follow that agruement to it's end, then they are all just fish So each species comp is a tie for first, with one species.

There are literally dozens of species of smooth hounds all over the world, so we need a way to identify the different species. For years in Ireland we used the spots to identify Starry's... This is correct, but the hounds in Irish waters that have no spots are not Common smooth hounds. They are just starry's without spots Maybe we need another name for the starry's Anyway, like many areas of life, science is helping all the time. If it helps us get things like this correct for a change, then who am I to argue. For those that want to bury the head in the sand and stick to previous ways.....work away. I'm not goint to loose any sleep over it, just thought some might like to know there is no genetic difference. Myself being a bit of a geek find this stuff really interesting

Tight Lines,

Kev

Just call them Mongrels.

the hounds in Irish waters that have no spots are not Common smooth hounds. They are just starry's without spots Maybe we need another name
Tight Lines,

Kev

we could call them GREYHOUNDS

greyhounds!!!

they are all starrys one way or another - how many was the species comp won by last year - i remember a few lads having 2 species of hound in it!

Some people have freckles, others don't.... are they different species ?

dos it really matter to anglers what the genetics are of a hound in my book as an angler if it has spots its a stary if not its a common and its always been that way for years for all anglers so why complacate things the genetics of fish and what ever els should be kept in the lab and not on the beach

This may be what some people in Ireland thought but it is not correct. I thought the same but you learn and move on . C'est la vie.

Some other differences
Common are Placentally viviparous (live bearing)

Starry are Aplacentally viviparous (live bearing)

thought starry's were egg layers?

thought starry's were egg layers?

Ovoviviparous (aplacental), with 7 to 15 young per litter

says
http://www.fishbase.org/summary/species ... hp?id=5938

I think that is synonymous with what I have above

ie they grow in eggs within the womb, and hatch within the womb.

we could call them GREYHOUNDS

I like it

dos it really matter to anglers what the genetics are of a hound in my book as an angler if it has spots its a stary if not its a common and its always been that way for years for all anglers so why complacate things the genetics of fish and what ever els should be kept in the lab and not on the beach

This may be what some people in Ireland thought but it is not correct. I thought the same but you learn and move on . C'est la vie.

Some other differences
Common are Placentally viviparous (live bearing)

Starry are Aplacentally viviparous (live bearing)

Very interesting John...

Nice to know that it's not just a case of spots or not...

Kev

we could call them GREYHOUNDS

hehe.. good one.. hopefully it takes off

Some people have freckles, others don't.... are they different species ?

Yes.