Killing specimen fish

I am fishing over 30 years and have always fished under the conservation rules, the best rules ever to come into place as regards our sport.
However why is there not some sort of system where specimen fish are not killed in order to record them as specimen.Surely there must be some method or formula out there to estimate size/weight etc.?

I fished Kilmore Quay recently and caught a definite specimen Ballan Wrasse, we had no scales aboard but all on board agreed that the fish was exceptional and a specimen.I had a decision to make, kill this fine fish and gain a badge to take up space in the bottom of a drawer or let him swim, I chose the latter.Recently I saw a fine Bass caught in west Cork on the paper,dead, what a waste, maybe that angler would have let it go and be happy with a photo if the option was open to him.

I'm sure a lot of other lads feel the same way.It takes a lot of time for a fish to reach specimen size and breeding weight so why can we not consrve instead of detroying them.

What do you think lads?

the rule that applys to boat caught fish is the must be weigheg on land.

The ISFC book will give you detail of what's required for their identification set up

http://www.irish-trophy-fish.com/reports/pdf/2008.pdf

its certainly a shame to have to kill somthing to prove you caught it and claim a record this has to change ifsa will have to be aware of these changing times if the 6 gilled shark off carrigholt was not enough to open peoples eyes i dont know what will

Well Done on catching a specimen and releasing it

A certain ( unnamed ) element in Irish angling have made the ISFC specimen awards a complete joke in recent years, I'm sure most of you know to what I am referring... I prefer to see a specimen fish swim away to fight another day rather than kill it for the worthless piece of paper this element have now made it

its certainly a shame to have to kill somthing to prove you caught it and claim a record this has to change ifsa will have to be aware of these changing times if the 6 gilled shark off carrigholt was not enough to open peoples eyes i dont know what will

That leads me to another question??

Don't the IFSA have an independent specimen award to the ISFC awards? and if I'm correct in thinking that how do you submit to the IFSA awards people the required measurements, species identification etc?

However why is there not some sort of system where specimen fish are not killed in order to record them as specimen.

Specimen or record fish do not have to be killed to be claimed. They do have to be weighed on land.

I fished Kilmore Quay recently and caught a definite specimen Ballan Wrasse, we had no scales aboard but all on board agreed that the fish was exceptional and a specimen.I had a decision to make, kill this fine fish and gain a badge to take up space in the bottom of a drawer or let him swim, I chose the latter.

A ballan wrasse needs a photo for positive ID. All fish need to be weighed on land. You were without a certified scales in the first place so whether you could make a run to land to weigh the fish and then release it is a moot point. You had a choice to make and you made your choice. Instead of having a certified specimen you had a very big fish!
I am told that kilmore quay is a venue that often produces specimen ballans. I cannot understand why anglers and skippers are not better organised.

Recently I saw a fine Bass caught in west Cork on the paper,dead, what a waste, maybe that angler would have let it go and be happy with a photo if the option was open to him.

You do not even need a photo to claim a specimen bass. Maybe he was ill prepared as well and did not have a certified scales. Maybe he did and decided to keep the fish. Maybe the fish was deep hooked and did not survive. Maybe he did not even claim the fish as a specimen. I do not know, but he did not have to kill the fish in order to claim a specimen.

I'm sure a lot of other lads feel the same way.It takes a lot of time for a fish to reach specimen size and breeding weight so why can we not consrve instead of detroying them.
What do you think lads?

I think anglers must be aware of the rules. I think anglers and skippers must be prepared. I think anglers must make their decision based on the circumstances.

A certain ( unnamed ) element in Irish angling have made the ISFC specimen awards a complete joke in recent years, I'm sure most of you know to what I am referring... I prefer to see a specimen fish swim away to fight another day rather than kill it for the worthless piece of paper this element have now made it

Jim, I consider a specimen cert a personal thing. Some, like myself, love it. Some, for whatever reason, don’t. Each to his/her own. To say that a certain “element” have made a specimen cert a worthless piece of paper is incorrect. Me and others like me are happy to chase our species and claim our certs in an honourable fashion. If others, as you contend, are not they are really only fooling themselves. If such a thing was happening, and it has never been proved to me that it is, why would it make my certs worthless?
I have plenty of big fish stories to tell, of fish released etc. But I also have my ratified specimens and nobody can say they are fishy stories
As for the IFSA specimen system: I’m afraid I know nothing about it. Donal D might fill in the gaps.

I'd echo what Jim has to say. You don't necessarily have to kill a fish to claim it as a specimen. Its a matter of being organised. Make sure you have a certified scales and make sure you can land your catch to weigh them. I accept that the latter may not be possible if fishing deeper water, but in that case you've a decision to make.

why would it make my certs worthless?

But I also have my ratified specimens and nobody can say they are fishy stories

Hi Jim,

I strongly believe they are worthless because this (unnamed ) element have cheated the system big time making the award a worthless piece of paper.. worthless in that if it can be claimed dishonorably then it really ain't worth a lot now is it? And yes I totally agree with you they are only fooling themselves but worse than that they are ruining the image of Irish angling, and it has been spotted and commented on - on an international level. This elements behavior is also a total insult to the decent honest anglers out there who make specimen claims!

This element have several "ratified specimens" that are nothing but fishy stories I'm afraid

Certified scales or no, it's impossible to weigh accurately a fish on a boat.

It's time to move from a weight based system to a length based system. A tape measure works as accurately on a boat as it does on dry land.

Hiya,

Certified scales or no, it's impossible to weigh accurately a fish on a boat.

This is very true even in flat calm conditions, the boat still moves.

It's time to move from a weight based system to a length based system. A tape measure works as accurately on a boat as it does on dry land.

Unfortunately you would need to have pictures showing the tape measure next to the fish or something in the shot to give a reference to the true size. Sadly it's been shown too many times in the last few years that a small element can't read a tape measure correctly.

The difficulty with length is that there can still be a wide variance in the size of fish eventhough they may be all of equal length.

The difficulty with length is that there can still be a wide variance in the size of fish eventhough they may be all of equal length.

I fully agree with you there, Pat, and precisely for this reason a general rethinking is in order. The length of a fish can determine certain factors such as age and maturity much more than its weight.
A weight-based system is rather vague, feeding behavior, food availability and seasons play a big role. A sea bass caught in October has with the same length an up to 30% higher weight than in June. This is the same in all species when seasonal adjustments are taken into account. I believe a specimen system in which the actual age is used as the main criterion for data collection, ie, where the length and not the weight of the fish is the decisive factor, is geared more towards preservation of stocks and in terms of proper management of resources far more appropriate.

On second thoughts you may be able to determine weight/size thru a system combining length and girth for round fish and length, wingspan/width, and depth for flats & ray.

Nah, lads, you miss my point. Under a length based system, it doesn't matter what the fish weighs. If it goes over the specimen length for that species then it counts as a specimen, regardless of what it weighs. You've got yourself a specimen. Which can be measured as accurately on board as on land.

id agree with that. simple and effective if the fish exceeds a certain length then its a specimen take a picture beside a rule
release the fish theres your cert no arguments very simple wonder what the powers that be will make of that

this subject has been discussed sooooo many times here that its starting to to get boring

jim couldn`t have said it better..
alot of people seem to have this idea that every specimen fish is killed then simply discarded like a snotty tissue,and no matter how many times its posted here explaining the rules on how to claim,this subject still very unclear to some folks.

Certified scales or no, it's impossible to weigh accurately a fish on a boat.

It's time to move from a weight based system to a length based system. A tape measure works as accurately on a boat as it does on dry land.

its a good idea,could be called a conservation specimen(which has also been mentioned before) but there would have to be a separate list for fish claimed in this way..there`s no way a measured fish could sit alongside a fish that has been weighed on certified scales,all on the same specimen list.
A measured fish could never take the place of an exsisting record so a separate list is the only way it could work...
The problem with this taking off the ground is that the ISFC relies on funding and this would stretch those funds beyond their limit...


I think i know about this element mohawk and davy speak off If its the same element then i agree with the comments made.......

That leads me to another question??

Don't the IFSA have an independent specimen award to the ISFC awards? and if I'm correct in thinking that how do you submit to the IFSA awards people the required measurements, species identification etc?

not sure how this is done but,if im not mistaken, for a record fish do you not need to register your claim with the ISFC for it to count??
claiming the IFSA own specimen is fine but lets face it every specimen anglers ultimate goal is to land a new record
catching specimens along the way is just our way of getting some practise in until that record fish takes our bait

As far as i am aware...Havent claimd one in a few years....
IFSA have their own list of specimen weights (mos of these are taken from ISFC lists)
Difference with IFSA is that it is for IFSA members only, not the general public.IFSA have 2 qualifying weights for some species, one for shore, and one for boat.
Application forms should be available to your club secretary from either provincial secretarys/recorders or ifsa trophy officer.

IMHO, many of these weights should be reviewed as many are unrealistic for areas around Ireland. Regional qualifying weights/lengths/sizes should be set for shore and boat by a provincial specimen committee within IFSA.

and the best thing about catching a specimen is the red cow.....major pis up
and you get to meet great anglers that will share all sort of stories and tales!
its a great day out and really well wort going to.



bru