Look after your wrasse - a salutary lesson from Donegal

can anyone really see fns buying a license considering there track records????

Yes, me for example ...

just copped this on another site
In Spain there is no true national licencing system but you do need a regional licence. The price of the licence will vary from 5€ - 12€. You can buy a Spanish licence (licencia de pesca) at the fishing department of the regional administrative office.

Yep but they have a really long history of fishing and protecting their limited fishing area's.
They have a very good policing section they regularly checks fishermen.. mostly teh touristy area's its true... but that's where the majority of tourist anglers go...without license...

But they do know all the good fishing spots also and will travel there regularly to check this. And this is what they do as a fulltime job... check for licenses all year round...

Compare that to the fishing that is done in cobh all year round... do you think regional council (cobh) would hire someone to check licenses? Sure we have pay and display parking in the town but only a part time warden

Good system of licensing, but it will only work as the icing on a really good political foundation that cares about fishing... in this case... what politicians care about wrasse?

[fedstar]

i cant see how shore anglers could have much effect on the population since they can only have
access from one of two restricted points.

in fact in my opinion anything done with rod and line in sea fishing is completely irrelevant
compared the discards and catches from commercial fishing, so maybe the impressive display
of moral outrage would be better directed at people shopping for fish in Tescos?

Thats the point, jw we the shore angler only have restricted access ,now i agree with what you say,
in the grand scheme of things shore angling has no great effect on total fish stocks ,but there are
only so many stations to actually fish from. This means you can only fish 180 degrees radius
to about a hundred yards out

Restricted to certain marks . I for one can not afford a boat, so i can not sail off into the wild blue yonder
in search of fishys, i have to go to a certain mark and fish from a particular station. If a certain tribe of Neanderthals
come along to that particular station and take 60 out of 60 fish the mark to the shore angler is DEAD. ( for an undetermined lenght of time)
Do you see what i mean ?


fedstar..

Last edited by fedstar on Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Donnyboy1]

Restricted to certain marks . I for one can not afford a boat, so i can not sail off into the wild blue yonder
in search of fishys, i have to go to a certain mark and fish from a particular station. If a certain tribe of Neanderthals
come along to that particular station and take 60 out of 60 fish the mark to the shore angler is DEAD.
Do you see what i mean ?


fedstar..

Thats not quite how it works man...

Lets say all the wrasse got wiped out by an act of god.... all the food that these wrasse would have normally eaten will now prosper and grow at an exponential rate...
Either more wrasse will colonise it or more species will prosper from the new food source...

I know you are limited in where you can fish... but in opposite... the fish are not limited in where they can go... if its a good bass, pollock or wrasse area... chances are it will continue to be...

JW is right, shore fisherman have a miniscule impact over all, but it is better even at that level if its a balanced impact.

Go on.. save up for a boat, even a row boat

Last edited by Donnyboy1 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

donnyboy i wouldent consider myself a racist.but i would say im a selective racist. that contradiction means im against anybody who regularly targets juvinille fish from the harbours its small fish been taken im ranting about not foreign nationals

Rod liencence!! Simple, If people love their fishing why not pay for it and become a stakeholder in our inshore fish stocks,
It could give us a lobbying voice and also fund some sort of protection against this carry on.

Once again, as you rightly point out a Rod licence, I would gladly pay for a licence but we have to accept the real world
Now if the roads can not be policed properly with all the revenue it creates what in the world makes you think the sea is going to be policed properly, its wishfull thinking

Alright Donnyboy
read my post again, i am not saying the whole area is going to be wiped out,
the particular station from which i fish will be fished out ,how do places get fished out ? ,if you dont mind me asking.

Not trying to be nasty

Fedstar

ps i dont get sea sick, i get sh *t scared

Alright Donnyboy
read my post again, i am not saying the whole area is going to be wiped out,
the particular station from which i fish will be fished out ,how do places get fished out ? ,if you dont mind me asking.

Not trying to be nasty

Fedstar

ps i dont get sea sick, i get sh *t scared

Hmmm not much to do for that

I'm not too sure what you mean by an area getting fished out... Fish will move if they see or hear you long before you know you are there. If fish see other fish moving they also will shoal and follow. Assuming you are undetected you can cast out a rod or two to a specific area within 100m. You can spend days within this 100m area and feel you have fished it out, but there is little impact that you have made on the area > 100m. If you think you have eliminated all the wrasse from <100m what do you think will stop the wrasse from 150m moving into take the abundant food from <100m as its more abundant... likewise the fish from 250m might also now move in and take the food from the 150m range... and so on... and on... and as there is actually a surplus of food the fish will grow quicker and larger.
There are also migratory issues...
There are also behavioural changes that could happen also that could stop them from entering a particular post at times... lots of reasons why it may seem fished out... but possibly its not.

I.e. look at the cod situation in Cork at the moment, where are these fish coming from? Some really big biys... they are obviously moving in from somewhere else? Perhaps the lack of Mackeral noticed in Cork waters this summer has lead to a large surplus of food that cod are following in and eating?

Point is (without going off topic): Fishing may change from time to time and its too easy to point fingers, but there are lots of other reasons going on that if we think about it are far more likely.

You could always wait for an offshore breeze and use teh baloon and polo mint trick to get an extra 50-100m on to your casts

can anyone really see fns buying a license considering there track records????

Yes, me for example ...

you will always get an exception to the rule so i will rephrase it. can anyone see fns apart from aurelien buying a licence

[fedstar]

Well donny boy,
you got to hand it to these Eastern Europeans
they know more about fish behavior than most of us.
I suppose i have only been fishing 35 years.

Apparently they know to within two weeks of when fish are about to shoal up
and move off somewhere else.
They also remain undetected to the fish ( some kind of Predator light reflection thing) even with thier drinking, shouting and whooping every time they catch and gut a fish.

As i say i have only been fishing 35 years, shore fishing not fresh water
or boat, just shore and it seems thats just coincidence that these people
turn up and take every fish they catch and the fish decide, "thats it no more anglers baits for me".

I will admit defeat and move on.

yours with the greatest respect,
Fedstar..
ps. the cod are coming from where they have always came from the Atlantic or North sea.The number of UK fishing vessels decreased by 20% between 1997 and 2007;

pedanticism

Last edited by fedstar on Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:10 am, edited 3 times in total.

can anyone really see fns buying a license considering there track records????

Yes, me for example ...

you will always get an exception to the rule so i will rephrase it. can anyone see fns apart from aurelien buying a licence

yes indeed Derek, I will most certainly not object having to purchase one, provided the revenue collected is solely used towards fish and stock protection and conservation. But that might just be wishful thinking

Finally, having this 'discussion' without proof is a little like talking about the 45lb Bass I caught at the weekend...honest... is there any proof that in fact a well trained team of foreign national fisherman took over 60 wrasse in one sitting? I mean surely you need to fish a mark a good few time in order to learn the ground, tides, and bait to use? or did they just get lucky and the next day they went on to the next bay?
Sorry... not saying it didn't happen... but without proof it just smacks of a racist rant... There are plenty of anecodtes in this thread with no proof to keep the xenophobic chitchat going... we've even heard of FN's lakes getting raped by other FN's.... seems you just cant get away from the buggers

How about this for proof..I WAS THERE WATCHING IT!!! ffs!!
Call me racist if ye want but i dont care who done it or where they`re from..
I`ll shout about it whether they were irish,polish,german or english etc etc etc..
The fact is these people have no respect for you or your country! The funny thing is that you dont seem to care what happens on your home turf
We had the same response from you on the foul hooking thread..And i just hope there`s not many other people here with your views

Sorry if thats a bit harsh but i didnt agree with you about the mullet problem and i dont agree with you about this!!

One thing is for sure and thats the fact that they were not from Ireland and did NOT speak english....

I think somebody just likes to wind people up on this forum happens all the time
always against the grain and backed up with their facts?
It's like fishing on the forum....don't bite!!!!:)

I don't think a Rod licence would stop anyone taking loads of fish or undersized fish,it would be better to have a minimum size for all species of fish,a ban on taking home certain types of fish,a bag limit on some more species like the bag limit for bass,a minimum distance between anglers so that a mark wouldn't get fished out in a few hours,i am sure others on here can think of more rules to add

also impose heavy fines for anyone caught breaking the rules,something like 500 euro or more,hit them in the pocket where it would hurt,that's the only way some lads will learn

as for policing the rules,there are plenty of lads out of work at the moment that could easily be trained as bailiffs and make there wages from catching lads breaking the rules

I've seen it happen first hand buddy in fresh and salt water. And as i said in an earlier post i'm sick to the back teeth of it. I would feel the same if it was locals doing it. But the fact remains that it isn't. I hope you never have to witness it and that your fishing isn't affected by this sort of behaviour. Sadly some of us have already had to put up with it.

Rod liencence!! Simple, If people love their fishing why not pay for it and become a stakeholder in our inshore fish stocks,
It could give us a lobbying voice and also fund some sort of protection against this carry on.

For those thinking that a rod licence is not a good idea..... It works, Simple. I have been lucky enough to take a family holiday to South Africa... I think the recent world Championships is a testament to the quality of fishing there. There is a strong ethos of taking your catch home there. Much more so than in Ireland. BUT, they have a rod licence, and it helps!!! Nearly every type of fish has a bag limit and a minimum and sometimes a maximum size limit. For Kob (SA Cod) in most parts it's only 2 fish per Angler. In areas where they are known to be scarce it's 1 fish... Sardine for example would be none and none. There is also bait limits placed on the angler as well to protect the esturies and some esturies have a no collection policy... Very draconian by Irish standards, but by employing these restrictions they have seen the fishing improve year on year.

This is a very simple thing to legislate and put in place, but NO Irish politician gives a fcuk.... SIMPLE. The really sickening thing is that with a small bit of effort, we could get fishing in this country back on track. Angling Holidays in Ireland have the potentional to generate massive amounts of much needed revenue. All we need is a politican that's not short sighted!

Kev

kev if we could trust the powers that be, i dont think there would be an issue .they would first waste a few million on setting up a new dept .old faces old jobs new name.looking at the spanish rules above. a province licence ie to fish leinster
munster ect . could work if the revenue was put to use in that area. but it would also have to include laws on fish sizes and bag limits on some species.although this would suit some of us i could see big opposition from other members especialy from the charters .as they would be the ones on the firing lines of bag limits. like if you spend 60-70 euros on a charter, then say 15 euros on a regional licence .you head out say the bag limit is 4 codling per bag every codling you get after that has to be thrown overboard whether its alive or dead .im just useing codling as an example, but all species will be the same.so we then have by catch on the boats as well as the trawlers dont think id like to see that.the country could certainly do with some artifical reefs if the revenue was put towards that, yes i could see a great future for our angling stocks and tourist attractions. but as an another poster has said if they dont maintain the roads with the road taxes we pay, why would they use the monies to police the sea. my self i think a ban on harbour fishing and certain reefs will help as they are a lot easier to watch and police with a sign warning of the fines for fishing this area.and a law banning the taking of any fish under 12" in size with a fine also attached.if these are impemented and policed there will be no one in any doubt about keeping baby fish or keeping sacks of anything

[fedstar]

Hello everyone,

thank god thats sorted and we can now report that a license or
giving the goverment even more hard earned money is the way forward.
i am relieved. Still the goverments do such a good job with all our other taxes,


Okay who do i pay more cash to and when do the seas get refreshed ?

One thing, as far as using freshwater license templates,
unlike the sea, the lakes, ponds, canals and rivers where freshwater anglers fish are not trawled and subjected to intense gill netting.
That of course is the simple (if truthful answer) and there is more to the debate.
Freshwater fisheries are the responsibility of the Environment Agency (EA).
The EA have a duty for the promotion and development of recreation.
The overwhelming use of fishery resources in freshwater is recreational rather than commercial.
The cultural mindset within the EA is predominantly one which prioritises the wellbeing of the fishery resources rather than the livelihoods of commercial fishing which many sea anglers perceive to be the key driver in respect of marine fisheries policies.

Some of the loudest voices arguing for us sea anglers to pay like their our freshwater colleagues,
come from the commercial fishing community.
However, their calls for what they refer to as a ‘level playing field’ quickly evaporatewhen they are reminded that those who commercially fish in freshwater (eels & salmon) pay the EA hand somely for doing so,
whereas marine commercial fishing licenses were handed out without charge and the Government, as custodian of the public marine fishery resources, receive not a penny for commercial access to those public resources.
The only money to change hands for commercial marine fishing licenses is as a result of the buying and selling of them between commercial operators,
even though they were originally provided FOC.

So we pay to catch a few little fishys and the commercials get it for free ,a fair and just policy.

I know everyone thinks that they have the correct solution on this one,
unfortunatly i see us the sea angler being, counted, charged, corralled
and then jabbed with an electric prod when we do not jump for the puppet master.

Fedstar.. duh..my ..head..hurts

Last edited by fedstar on Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:08 pm, edited 4 times in total.

well lads, there is nice discussion however sadlly it sounds, there is plenty of true in your words,
about license for fishing, bag and size limits that could be good idie alright that could put off loads of idiots who just coming on shore with full bag of drinks and drugs trying imitate an angling session and bag everything they cought big and small, most of them wouldn't even know how this fish is called and they know that's totaly free
in easten europe fish stock in lakes and rivers is a big issue indeed and from goverment fundation is very hard to keep rules being none broked!
so, what is happens at the moment lakes and rivers are avaliable to rent for time is agreed between a landlord and goverment so they can be protected personaly by landlord who has right to charge an anglers dayly or yearly rates, well there is a limit of that too,
either they does limiting amount and size of fish can be brought home for table
and it did made sence indeed, only profesional anglers would fish that lake or river and would pay a many for his session, becouse he needs that it's in his blood and he knows that there is a fish and no idiots would come in to mess around and disturb his great time
and all the rest govrment owned waters are in realy bad condition becouse no mush of the rules most of fish can be taken and biggest issue is that not mush of rules keepers couse maney are been cut a big time no peoples no transport no fuel

I don't think a rod licence, as well intentioned as it might be, would solve the problem unfortunately. Now this is absolute pie in the sky but if they were designated a 'sport fish' as the UK has with its tope then we could make some progress. The probelm is with wrasse though is that they are a lot less glamorous than bass, salmon or the sharks and thus whatever luck we've had in protecting those species i can't see us having the same success with the humble wrasse. For one there is still a tradition, albeit a dying one, as Donny Boy suggests of eating wrasse and i can see many commercial fishermen objecting on the grounds that the species also makes good pot bait. The more i think about it the more i'm almost inclined to think it's a bit of a lost cause.

In saying that I don't think the eastern europeans will lead to the wrasse population to fall to such an extent that the reproductive capability of the stock will be impaired. I don't think in any of my posts i've expressed this either. Wrasse will still be happily munching pea mussels long after were all gone to the great sea in the sky. But and this is what i have been going on about when i started this post.....if you've got a wrasse mark thats productive try not to let these people find it because they will fcuk it up on you....