Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:58 pm

eoghanb wrote:Great topic this but it’s a confusing subject,I’ve been using a single hander for years,Shakespeare Atlantis 9ft 10 weight,But it can be hard work in strong wind and fatigue after a while,I’ve been looking into getting a DH rod ,not too expensive.i looked at the max catch predator saltwater rod seems ok with a reel and line for under €200,or is the oracle rod a better choice ?,I’m just confused about what line weight and head length I need and what’s the ideal rod length,I usually fish estuaries and open beaches,can anyone recommend a set up that won’t break the bank ?



Eoghan, You should try an OPST skagit line. The cast really well on a SH rod and also a DH. I have not used another line since picking one up 18 months ago. Casts great with a water loaded anchor cast, but I usually just over head it. One back cast and bam! all your line is out. Slices through the wind, lots of floating and sinking tip section options. Happy to give you a test of my set up if you want to try it, I've had much sucess with it on the Boyne.
On a side note, I gave an Echo OHS rod a test drive recently. (One Hand Spey/Skagit) its designed to be casted single or double handed. It has a second butt section for DH'ing. I was really impressed with it. Lots of feel to it due to the medium fast action.

Mike Oliver - your set up sound really interesting! 700grains? you must have a hose pipe grafted onto the end of your running line! I'd love to give that a throw! Sounds incredible!

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:37 pm

Kgarr

You would be very welcome to try it. You maybe surprised at how easy it is to cast and fish.

I try to get over to Kerry for two weeks most years but obviously Covid has scuppered all plans for this fall. I tend to go either to Waterville or Brandon. So if you were ever down that way in the fall we could easily meet up. Be a fun thing to do.
It is good to see that the Irish lads are taking an interest in TH rods for salt water. I started about 13 years ago experimenting on the NE Coast of the USA fishing for Stripers. I wanted to fly fish but found that I was often out gunned by surf and high winds with the single hander. It happens with the TH as well but we can fish in much tougher conditions in a meaningful way. It’s fun to.
If there was enough interest I would be happy to run a TH day like the ones I did in Cape Cod and Montauk. They are totally free and none commercial. I do them because I am passionate about the sport and TH rods for Out Front.
Once Covid is hopefully sorted it could be arranged.
Cheers

Mike

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:19 am

that's very generous of you Mike, and much appreciated. I'll gladly take you up on that offer whever you can get back here, please just drop me a message. I've fished Waterville before, heaven on earth comes to mind. I'm intrigued by your set up,I've read a couple of threads you've posted on stripersonline.com. Sound's like you've really thought things through,
Chat again,

Kevin

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:04 am

Kgarr,


No probs I am sure we can sort something out. Even if we can meet up whilst I drive from a Dublin Port west if you live close to that route. If more guys fancy a TH meet up I am sure we can make that happen to. There is a good thread going on fly lines for TH right now and that could be of interest. If you google up splicing fly lines there are some good vids explaining how to do that.
It is frustrating that line makers do not produce Wf lines in tne grain weights were need. Typically from 550 grains to 750.
I try to keep to 550 and that can cope with pretty tough conditions. But when it gets real snotty 650 and 700 make it more doable.
Of course it’s not always wind in face and then the TH is just amazing to use if distance is key or you don’t need long range and the casting becomes so easy and relaxed. For guys with shoulder issues they can be a boon. But the resistance to them in the USA has been quite remarkable and as usual the resistance has always come from guys who have no knowledge of them. It has been a long slog but fun to. A guy known as JimDE was a major influence in the states but he came under attack from guys with a vested interest in single hand rods. Jim used to mentor me and I faced the same BS. That BS has now largely subsided which is nice. I fish single hand rods to mostly 9 foot 10 wts but 10 wts that really ate 10 wts not 12 wts. Too many current rods are very poorly rated mostly under rated which is not helpful when we are trying to match lines to rods. So LINE makers in response start to make lines a half size up or two sizes up.. Not easy to be a new guy these days.
Enjoy your fall fishing.

Mike

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:37 am

Kgarr

Sorry the 700 grain line was a horrible head from Airflow. Got it in the USA. Had to attach my own running line. We test cast it in the rental house garden and smacked the line into the roof of the house. It was scary the amount t of energy stored in that line which was a fast sink and very thin. Little practical use for it unless fishing a very fast deep inlet. Or if it is the only line in town on a steep beach when the wind is just silly.

Yes hose pipe is about right for a floater in those sort of line weights.

I am lucky I managed to buy up some old Airflow Beach Lines. Hard to find they have around 33 foot heads and weigh around 530 grains. If you can track down the fast sink and a Intermediate jump on them. When mine get busted it’s make my own time.

Mikey

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:36 pm

Thanks Mike,

I’m only 30 mins from Dublin So that would be great. But I’m happy to travel either way. Let me know when you’re over next, we’ll have to organize something,

Thanks so much,

Kevin

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:46 pm

Will do

Mikey

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:26 pm

Cheers kgarr, so a 500ish grain skagit line ,I was looking at a 9ft 10w double hander, what’s the best length ? Or is 9ft enough?

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:59 pm

Ok I make a suggestion.

It is unusual to fish TH as short as 9 feet in our waters. There is little advantage. A single hand 10 wt will in many ways outperform a TH of this length. It depends what you are looking for in your rod. Distance wise the single hander will win hands down as you can get higher line speed through use of a double haul.. You get more effective rod length as you don’t lose some in a lower handle. The short TH will give you a better fish fighting rod with it’s longer fore handle.
If you are looking at a rod in a TH format for Irish conditions then a longer rod will be better. 11 feet is a good starting point.
Hope this helps.

Mike

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:47 pm

eoghanb wrote:Cheers kgarr, so a 500ish grain skagit line ,I was looking at a 9ft 10w double hander, what’s the best length ? Or is 9ft enough?



Hey Eoghan,

I've never come across a DH rod that short, and tbh I won't advise you here, as my DH rod experience is quite limited. I have an 8wt echo boost beach DH which is 12' 2" and also a couple of 9' SH rods that will both cast the same skagit line - a 300g-325grain OPST commando head.

Both are piles of fun! Easy distance on either outfit with the same head.

Check out Benn Paul on this link casting a skagit head like a boss!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5OmMYO ... nTheRiffle

Kevin

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:36 am

Thanks for that the commando heads look very interesting,I think I’ll probably take a chance on one of those lines as I think my Atlantis will still do the job

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:29 pm

I found the commando smooth is easier to begin with. No messing about with running lines etc.

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:27 pm

So is that without joints ,I don’t think I’d like a lot of loop to loop connections

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:16 pm

yes, no joins. Although you need to attach a sinking or floating tip, that will be loop to loop. I felt totally the same regarding the loop to loop connections, but you don't notice them so much after a while. Was on the Boyne yesterday slinging a 325 grain commando head, had 2 takes, both of which I lost ! ! Still fish to be had Eoghan!

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:53 pm

Loop connections are not my favourite but if we want versatility then they are not so bad for joining tips to the head. Where they really suck is when you have a loop to loop join between running line and the head. Important to make sure a compatible tip is fitted to the head. The head must be able to dominate the tip. If the tip is too long and or too heavy you will get hinging and the casting behaviour of the line becomes ugly.
It will kick horribly and casting ceases to be a pleasure.

Mike

Re: The Short Two-hander in the Salt

Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:00 am

Hi lads, hopefully someone will pick up this post in the tumbleweeds of the SWFF forum.

I am thinking of getting a switch rod that will do a few jobs (and none well, sez you!).

I would like to use it for trying out salmon fishing in small- medium waters, and also for SWFF. What I am trying to figure out is what weight rating to get.

The problem is the rods I am looking at give their ratings in lineweight rather than grains. Am looking at either the Shakespeare Oracle Switch or a Maxcatch switch (I have a good bit of Maxcatch gear and find it excellent for the money)

Now I do have a rough guide here to convert from grains to lineweight
https://www.ginkandgasoline.com/fly-fis ... ng-a-line/

So I guess guys what I am asking is what size heads do I need for SWFF. Looking at moderate conditions, I don't think I will be trying it on the really windy days (will probably go with lures in that case).
I guess once I know the right head size, I can convert to lineweight and hopefully pick the right rod.

Also, will I get away with overhead casting, or is Spey casting a "must"