Question about modifying a flyline

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Question about modifying a flyline

Postby LennyH » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:47 pm

I have an old intermediaste flyline and was going to cut the head off and replace it wit a sinking head. Would this work. I was going to use 2 braided loops to attach the lines, would this cause a loss of power transfer with the slack in the two loops or would it cause too much friction on the eyes of the rod? Any one got any ideas or am I just a tight git who wont splash out on a new sinking line...
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby cathalger » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:16 pm

Lenny,

you say the intermediate line has a head? is it a weight forward line?

What is the sinking piece of line you want to attach?
2013 Sea Species:- Bass, Flounder, 5 Beard Rockling, Shore Rockling, Whiting, red gurnard, grey gurnard, Pollack, coley, mackerel, sea trout, cant remember cos I didn't update at the time.....
2012 Sea species:- Pollack, Coley, Mackerel, Cod, Bass, Sea Trout, Haddock, Plaice, Dab, Flounder, Red Gurnard, Grey Gurnard, Pouting, Whiting, Corkwing Wrasse, Ballan Wrasse, Lesser Spotted Dogfish, Brown Trout caught on beach.
2011 Sea species:- codling, L.S. dogfish, coley, whiting, pollack(4lb 3oz), sea trout, shore conger eel (15lb), ballan wrasse, grey gurnard, plaice, dab (and lobster).
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby LennyH » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:47 pm

Yes it is a WF line just presumed the 15ft or so increase in diameter of line was a head. The line i was going to attach was RIO 15ft. Density Comp. Sink Tip, Type 8. Just something cheap to see if it would work.
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby cathalger » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:57 pm

A very experienced salmon (river) angler explained to me some years ago that he constructed a lot of his own flylines, to suit his particular needs. It is very do-able alright.

So the sinking bit is a shop bought, pre-made sink tip, 15 foot, I wonder does the 'type 8' refer to it being compatible with number 8 flyline? Sounds like it.

Yer man i mentioned, he used to remove a bit off of a floating or intermediate flyline and splice on a bit of sinking line, exactly what you are hoping to do. I think the question is, the big question, where to cut the old intermediate. It might be a bit of a stab in the dark just to remove 15 foot of it (part of the heavy head as you quite rightly say and the taper) and hope the sink tip 'likes' that exact spot on the old line? It could work ok but it could be a disaster.

You may not have to remove as much as 15 foot of the intermediate. I would suggest you take your rod and the lines out to an area of short grass and experiment til you have it feeling right? I assume the sink tip has an attachment loop on it already at the thick end? Get a leader joint kit (or 2) and cut 6 or 7 foot from the old line, attach the sink tip to the old line via a braided loop. Have a cast and if it doesnt feel right take another bit off the old line and try it again.

I'll pm you re the possibility of splicing the 2 lines together instead of using loop to loop attachments, running out of space.
2013 Sea Species:- Bass, Flounder, 5 Beard Rockling, Shore Rockling, Whiting, red gurnard, grey gurnard, Pollack, coley, mackerel, sea trout, cant remember cos I didn't update at the time.....
2012 Sea species:- Pollack, Coley, Mackerel, Cod, Bass, Sea Trout, Haddock, Plaice, Dab, Flounder, Red Gurnard, Grey Gurnard, Pouting, Whiting, Corkwing Wrasse, Ballan Wrasse, Lesser Spotted Dogfish, Brown Trout caught on beach.
2011 Sea species:- codling, L.S. dogfish, coley, whiting, pollack(4lb 3oz), sea trout, shore conger eel (15lb), ballan wrasse, grey gurnard, plaice, dab (and lobster).
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby LennyH » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:48 pm

Hey Cathalger
I got your PM. It is a shop bought line. The type 8 appears to be a particular range because they go from a 7-12 weight. The one I will be using is a compatable weight . Thabks again for the info. I will definately be trying the splice option.
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby cathalger » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:35 pm

LennyH wrote:Hey Cathalger
I got your PM. It is a shop bought line. The type 8 appears to be a particular range because they go from a 7-12 weight. The one I will be using is a compatable weight . Thabks again for the info. I will definately be trying the splice option.


No worries Lenny, I hope it works and is pleasant to fish with, an awkward and clumsey, poorly functioning flyline totally defeats the purpose and could put you off taking the flyrod out!

I dont think I said, to get the coating off of the tips of the flylines you want to join, a very good way to soften the coating and make it strip easier is to dip it in acetone for about 30 seconds,(if you cant get pure acetone try nail varnish remover) gripping the line tightly at the exact point you want to stop stripping the coating at. Acetone will make light work of getting the coating off the core but you dont want to damage the coating beyond the point you wish to strip.

The cores stitch together easily with thin small needle and fly tying thread (unithread 6/0, about 2 euros a spool- double the thread to do the stitch up), wrap up the stitched part in thread tightly and super glue, not to much glue! Just a spot, doesnt have to coat the entire joint. Dont forget the heat shrink tube has to be slipped on to one line before doing your sewing.

Good luck.
2013 Sea Species:- Bass, Flounder, 5 Beard Rockling, Shore Rockling, Whiting, red gurnard, grey gurnard, Pollack, coley, mackerel, sea trout, cant remember cos I didn't update at the time.....
2012 Sea species:- Pollack, Coley, Mackerel, Cod, Bass, Sea Trout, Haddock, Plaice, Dab, Flounder, Red Gurnard, Grey Gurnard, Pouting, Whiting, Corkwing Wrasse, Ballan Wrasse, Lesser Spotted Dogfish, Brown Trout caught on beach.
2011 Sea species:- codling, L.S. dogfish, coley, whiting, pollack(4lb 3oz), sea trout, shore conger eel (15lb), ballan wrasse, grey gurnard, plaice, dab (and lobster).
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby bait all » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:12 pm

Hi lenny,i cant imagine the splicing and glueing will do any favours to the casting ability of your intermediate line, however, there are numerous ready made sink tip fly lines, i have used the cortland 444, WF (weight forward ) 8 (weight of the line, so should be compatible with an 8 fly rod.) F/I (floating/ inter' ) sink tip. These are a really good line and flow through the eyes almost friction free. They are however expensive, around €50. Shakespeare do a whole range of Odyssey budget fly lines that are very popular, they sell at well under €20 so may be worth a try, typically, WF 7 MS ( medium sink) this gives a sink rate of 2" per second, or FS (fast sink ) gives nearly double the sink rate. I hope this is of some help.
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby cathalger » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:08 pm

Yeah I totally agree with that bait all- re the superiority of just buying a decent flyline, no question. The splicing and glueing (spot of glue, not a mini brick) is a perfectly adequate way to join lines, done it a few times but I'd definitely choose an intact ready made line over a joined one most of the time unless the joined one was going to get my fly fishing the way it absolutely had to be.

A splice 15 foot from the tip of the line -as long as the 2 joined pieces run together nicely from a weight perspective- wont inhibit casting or performance, there are 2 times it could cause annoyance - when aerialising the very first bit of flyline with the first 2 false casts- it will be felt going through the eyes. Once its out of the rod it it shouldnt even be detectable. The other time is when coming to the end of the retrieve, again it will be felt coming into the rod eyes and can even give you the impression that youve had a take! Thats maybe the biggest disadvantage of all, you could find yourself striking at imagined takes and even worse not striking when a real take does come.
But its much better than braided loops.

As bait all says Lenny, a new sinker wont bankrupt you at all but the other line with sink tip sewed on in the right place could be a useful spare to have about you, especially if you plan to fish rocks where there are limpets. 2 evenings in a row last summer I had to stop fishing early due to sinking flylines gettin clamped down by limpets under the water at my feet. The only way to free it was pull. The shell cut it like a knife, the 2nd night the line was bought that day and used for 20 mins. Both those sinkers cost £35 each and are now rejoined back ups. I bought a Shakespeare Odyssey WF6 medium sink shortly afterwards for about £18. A perfectly good line, absolutely fine, as recommended by Bait All above.
If not as your mainstay line, the jointed one would def be a useful back up line on a spare spool. mUST GET A LINE TRAY.
2013 Sea Species:- Bass, Flounder, 5 Beard Rockling, Shore Rockling, Whiting, red gurnard, grey gurnard, Pollack, coley, mackerel, sea trout, cant remember cos I didn't update at the time.....
2012 Sea species:- Pollack, Coley, Mackerel, Cod, Bass, Sea Trout, Haddock, Plaice, Dab, Flounder, Red Gurnard, Grey Gurnard, Pouting, Whiting, Corkwing Wrasse, Ballan Wrasse, Lesser Spotted Dogfish, Brown Trout caught on beach.
2011 Sea species:- codling, L.S. dogfish, coley, whiting, pollack(4lb 3oz), sea trout, shore conger eel (15lb), ballan wrasse, grey gurnard, plaice, dab (and lobster).
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby bait all » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:51 pm

Hey, thats a good point about the limpet problem, it has never happend to me but its the sort of thing that would make this grown man cry :( . a line tray is such a bonus and should be considered, having said that,keeping down the amount of gear you carry when fly fishing just make this sport so pleasurable.
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby cathalger » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:29 pm

bait all wrote:Hey, thats a good point about the limpet problem, it has never happend to me but its the sort of thing that would make this grown man cry :( . a line tray is such a bonus and should be considered, having said that,keeping down the amount of gear you carry when fly fishing just make this sport so pleasurable.


It was a real sickener the first evening, and the 2nd, well, it was just getting a bit ridiculous. Twice in 2 days. Only ever happened to me once prior to that, about 5 years ago. I almost forgot-- It happened a 3rd time last year. I felt the resistance and stopped pulling, looked down and there was the wee shite with a loop of my flyline tucked nicely below it, just under the surface, not too deep down as before. I have no idea how I managed it but before it got clamped tight, I got my finger nails to it and applied instant pressure. I was getting a bit fed up with the flyline destruction by this stage, he came away off the rock in my hand easier than expected. Maybe he was just a very smart limpet and sensed that if he didnt let go he would be smashed flat, cos that was probably his fate.
A limpet could not be better designed to wreck a flyline. Line settles around limpet, limpet when feeding has a 3mm gap around its edge for a flyline to go under. Resistance makes the limpet clamp down with great strength to the rock. Edge of shell is almost like the edge of a recently sharpened wood chisel. AND they just happen to be there in their thousands in the exact place you must stand to flyfish off the rocks! The flyline doesnt stand a chance if you cant reach down far enough to get at him with a knife to prise him opff the rock.

Yes bait all, I dont fancy the idea of having a line tray round my belly one little bit but I might have to put up with it, you simply cannot fish and watch the loops of loose line below you at the same time, slow figure of 8 retrieve and collection of line in left hand wont suit all types of fishing. Please God it never happens when attached to a big pollack or even worse, a sea trout. That would not be a good thing to happen.
2013 Sea Species:- Bass, Flounder, 5 Beard Rockling, Shore Rockling, Whiting, red gurnard, grey gurnard, Pollack, coley, mackerel, sea trout, cant remember cos I didn't update at the time.....
2012 Sea species:- Pollack, Coley, Mackerel, Cod, Bass, Sea Trout, Haddock, Plaice, Dab, Flounder, Red Gurnard, Grey Gurnard, Pouting, Whiting, Corkwing Wrasse, Ballan Wrasse, Lesser Spotted Dogfish, Brown Trout caught on beach.
2011 Sea species:- codling, L.S. dogfish, coley, whiting, pollack(4lb 3oz), sea trout, shore conger eel (15lb), ballan wrasse, grey gurnard, plaice, dab (and lobster).
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby bait all » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:27 pm

Hey cathalgar, you know i would love to get in a bit of practice and get a bit of guidance for myself and i 'd say you would be a likely candidate, But i see you are in Antrim and i rarely get to see my relations in the North so i would be deep in the shite if i was found to have traveled up and went fishing :roll: . I find that the only time i get to do any shore fishing is when launching is not favourable and when it is i head out and never seem to think of staying inshore. So to my shame i have never cast a fly from my boat. However, if you ever do find yourself in the deep south, do please give me a shout and i shall exchange a day on the boat for a bit of teaching,
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby bait all » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:00 pm

Hey Cathal, futher to you P.M. When your down this way maybe you will try a cast on the Munster Blackwater, i caught this browny on a stretch of free water near Fermoy, and the salmon fishing is getting better year on year. Fionn
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby cathalger » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:37 pm

Fionn that is a superb brownie, 3.5lb, better? What did you get it on. That is a hell of a river trout, deadly. Free water eh? What you doing this Saturday? Na seriously but, I wouldnt mind a go at that. Thered hardly be too many that size taken in a season? Thanks for the post.
2013 Sea Species:- Bass, Flounder, 5 Beard Rockling, Shore Rockling, Whiting, red gurnard, grey gurnard, Pollack, coley, mackerel, sea trout, cant remember cos I didn't update at the time.....
2012 Sea species:- Pollack, Coley, Mackerel, Cod, Bass, Sea Trout, Haddock, Plaice, Dab, Flounder, Red Gurnard, Grey Gurnard, Pouting, Whiting, Corkwing Wrasse, Ballan Wrasse, Lesser Spotted Dogfish, Brown Trout caught on beach.
2011 Sea species:- codling, L.S. dogfish, coley, whiting, pollack(4lb 3oz), sea trout, shore conger eel (15lb), ballan wrasse, grey gurnard, plaice, dab (and lobster).
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby bait all » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:32 pm

cathal, the fish was a bit under 5ld. In a river they dont grow that size by swimming in the current and sipping flies from the surface. These fish are pure predators and will be lurking behind a rock or some obstruction to pounce on a fish. The bait to use will represent that, fished deep with a sink and draw method. as for what am i doing saterday, look at the meets section, i organize a charter every month and next Sunday is one of them. So saterday i shall be making traces. the ling fishing down west can be heavy on tackle, usually stuck in a wreck.
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby cathalger » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:40 am

Lenny! Sorry for all this dialogue on YOUR thread!

Fionn, how did you know brown trout were my favourite fish?????
2013 Sea Species:- Bass, Flounder, 5 Beard Rockling, Shore Rockling, Whiting, red gurnard, grey gurnard, Pollack, coley, mackerel, sea trout, cant remember cos I didn't update at the time.....
2012 Sea species:- Pollack, Coley, Mackerel, Cod, Bass, Sea Trout, Haddock, Plaice, Dab, Flounder, Red Gurnard, Grey Gurnard, Pouting, Whiting, Corkwing Wrasse, Ballan Wrasse, Lesser Spotted Dogfish, Brown Trout caught on beach.
2011 Sea species:- codling, L.S. dogfish, coley, whiting, pollack(4lb 3oz), sea trout, shore conger eel (15lb), ballan wrasse, grey gurnard, plaice, dab (and lobster).
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Re: Question about modifying a flyline

Postby bait all » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:34 pm

Oppps, yes Lenny, sorry for all the chat here, we did get a bit carried away. What was the question again. :lol:
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