choice of long rod - advice wanted

had to edit my post above just incase you got me wrong. i said i would recommend it as a cod rod which is wrong. i would NOT recommend it as a cod rod.

Okay

I hear you - course when I say I am targetting cod, that doesnot (bordering on "never") means I will catch one! Best cod was taken on a boat road 30 metres off rocks on Blacksod lighthouse for heaven's sake!

I get the impression that the longer rods are light tackle and small fish rods - is this a misconception, or are there rods that can handle something a bit bigger, like a large ray or a double of 6 lb codlings (I should be so lucky!) ?

Thanks

there are definately heavier models out there but some reckon that long rods work against the angler when retrieving a biggy. to be honest though when your bringin in a big one i can't see anyone caring about that too much?!

The major benefits I have found from the long rods is in being able to use very light main-line down to 6lb, catering for superlong traces made of thin flourocarbon. Trace bodies of 27lb fluoro and snoods of 6 - 12lb fluoro can be cast a serious distance on these rods with an overhead flick and a 3 oz lead. Delicate baits will not explode. The overhead cast can be very accurate when targetting offshore features, placing baits behind wave patterns or in small tables. This is a very difficult cast using a swinging lead. Watch a coarse angler hitting the same spot every cast - they all cast straight over their heads with eyes fixed on the target. Of course the tip has to be spot on. Some of these long rods seem merely 16ft versions of a standard 13ft rod with a thick tip that will pick up the lead quickly. What I would like to see is the manufacturerers build a optional quivertip section. Coupled with braid, this would result in some exciting visual angling and on the east coast, the bite is often the most energetic part of the catch.

Brian,

Easier said than done, we had 5m (25mm butt)rods made with softer tips, we used about 20" of glass in the tip section, with bite detection in mind. It didn't work to well, we weren't happy with the results.

Without going into great detail, we just were not happy with it, casting was OK but bite detection at great distance is very hard to achieve, we played around with it that much and spent to much money on it, that's life :oops:

We already have a 4m rod ( slim 20mm butt) with a very sensitive tip, Sam Roche said it is the best F/S rod he has ever used and that he could see bites from fish the length of his finger at great distance. Your welcome to have a try with this rod anytime you care to, just give me a call.

Later in the year the rod I speak of will be sampled in 5m, still with the slim butt , we'll just have to see if it works better then it big brother.

Tom.

Tom - appreciate there are design difficulties in achieving the perfect balanced combination and that not all situations can be countered using the same outfit. I have used freshwater rod tips ( heavy feeder glass tips)
as the tip section when fishing with light leads and the bites have been impressive. The action does leave something to be desired as they are not perfect fits and the casting potential is reduced becauce they do not blend in with the rest of the blank but for fishing in the 20 - 80 yards bracket the advantages can often outweigh the negative points. I am thinking along the same lines - maybe naively becasue I do not understand the intricities of rod design - as the twin tip specimen rods that are used extensively by freshwater specimen anglers.
I may come back to you for a go of that 4m model !

Anytime Brian 8)

Are you fishing the winter festival ?

I didn't have time last night to go over some of the problems we faced with multi-tip rods, but I will try and outline a couple here.

All of our rods are made in Korea, the coast is more than double of the Chinese rods, but we think the quality is worth it.

Top quality rods will cost about the €400.00 mark, that make an extra tip cost about € 100.00, buy the rod with 1 extra tip = €500.00 or 2 extra tips = €600, big money to pay for anyone. so it doesn't look a good commercial deal to offer a rod with multiple tips.

To offer the tips for sale separately creates another problem, we get 100 rods made with the normal standard tip (no Problem) if we offer one permutation in the tip how many do we get made, say 50, what can be done with these tips if they don't sell. Take into account that if the 100 rods didn't sell, then they would be offered at a really low price, that's the way its done, but at any price who would want to buy 50 tips.

I do believe there is room in the market for a rod with 2 tip sections, one for distance and the other for bite sensitivity, I cant think of a reason for a third tip, if anyone else can, chip in.

I need to add, our rods are made from the highest grade carbon on the market by the same factory that makes the high end Daiwa rods, we don't just instruct them, we talk to them and try to achieve the best results we can.

The market is flooded with cheap rods that sell for way above what they are worth and the companies involved make far higher profits than companies who try to provide a quality rod that is value for money.

This is not a rant, I am not complaining, just trying to let people know that its not easy to build a magic wand and that's what most anglers want 8) 8) 8) 8)

Regards,
Tom.

I recently had the pleasure of a couple of chucks with phanover's Grauvell Tektron 4200. For a blank so slim it generates an awesome amount of power. Using a simple swing back of the lead and turn into a sort of overhead thump style, a 6 0z weight just catapulted away. It went an easy 160 yards or so and the only thing that held it back was the line got caught on a knot used to join fresh line to backing. Using a simple overhead style it would be easy to send a weight up to 200 yard mark, I cant describe how much power this rod generates for something so light and slim. Its definitely going on the wish list for myself!

i think fladen may have a long warbird rod that comes with a few tips coarse fishing/quivertip style.
i know it wont be up at the 'top quality end' of the market though.

Phil,

Quite a few companies think the answer is in multi tips, personally I don't, I think 2 tips should be ample for the needs of surf fishermen, heres why..

We sometimes need to hit a big distance, for this you need power, this is normally put into the butt and mid section of a rod, easy so far. Now take into account that we may need to get a delicate bait out a good distance, either the caster needs to have a good gentle style with good timing and put HIS power into the cast or the rod needs to do it for him. This is where the length comes into it, 4m to 5m should give you what your looking for , no matter how poor your style is, the length of the rod will forgive even a novice -BUT- at a good distance the bite detection is sometimes better from a stiff tip than it is from a soft one.

If you have a softer second tip for your rod, that should make it the kind of rod that will allow you to fish faster, no fish lying on like with a stiff tip, you can see the least little quiver and your reeling in, unhook and back out again, no time wasted.

Personally if I want to hit a big distance and get a delicate bait out some distance I go UP to a 6oz lead, this will load the rod easier (with less violence from the caster) than a 3oz lead would, for me, this works! I think a lot of anglers are being taken in that there is a "panacea" for the kind of rod we need, unlike the freshwater anglers, our rods must cater for a lot more in every way. They can keep a rod tip a few inches above the water, we cant, most of the time they fish rivers that are not very wide, any of us guys could cast to the other bank. They don't have that much problem with a nodding surf giving you false bites, and loads more.

But some rods are just sweet to use and 80 out of 100 anglers who use them like them, then you have a winner.

Sounds like I'm on another rant, sorry for the long post, wish I could say it in fewer words :lol: :lol:

Tom.

good stuff Tom! thanks for that! i agree with the heavier lead helping to load the rod more easily. i remeber asking an angler if he found it to be the case and he told me i was talkin 'rubbish'!!! ha! some anglers would make you wonder if they even liked fishing?!!

Mark,

Think about it, if you have a 2oz bait and a 1oz lead what is going to carry the bait to where you want it. With a 3 hook trace all baited up with Maddies a 6oz weight will carry it through the sky easier than a 3oz weight.

With 6oz of lead hanging off your rod tip ready for an overhead swipe from a long rod "gentle" is easy, try to do the same with a 2oz weight without having a good well timed style, not so easy and not so gentle on the bait.

Tom.

have to agree with you tom.the reson some may want to use the lighter leads at distance though may be for more movement with the baits, but in a pegged competition you can only let it move so far anyhow.

Movement and presentation are the key factors for employing lighter leads. Accuracy is also easier with any fixed spool and an overhead style cast. Another bonus for casting any bait on any weight is that an OTG cast, with no change of direction, is usually less critical of timing errors, therefore smoother and kinder to the baits than a swing cast. Long rods have converted some wayward pendulum casters into casting off the ground and their general angling has improved because the baits are arriving intact to a respectable distance consistantly.
I would still like a quivertip option !

Brian,

I hope you take everything I say in friendly debate, because that the way I see it 8) 8)

This is why I think a quiver tip has almost no place in a surf fisherman's arsenal....firstly, even a small chuck can result in a crack-off because the tip not being leader knot friendly, even with a fixed spool, right or wrong taking into account that if you use such a tip then its logic to use very light line.

Secondly, you must ask yourself "how small are the fish your trying to catch" if they are that small you cant catch them on a rod with a softish tip, then they would be under size for any match rules.

Thirdly, the conditions needed to see any benefit from such a sensitive tip are very rare on the shore, even the softest of surfs will give off false bites. I know that the Scottish team took quiver tip rods with them to Italy last year and regret doing so.

Believe me, I do think it is possible to get a really sweet tip to a rod, that can pick up bites well, cast well and be an all round pleasure to use. But I cant for the life of me see where a quiver-tip rod that is used by freshwater anglers (only when the conditions demand) has a place for match fishing on the shore no matter how light you want (or need) to fish.

Surely, if your fishing at your feet and want to use the lightest of line with the smallest of hooks then it makes sense to have a light spinning rod in the 9ft/10ft class at little cost.

I do also think that this "European Long Rod" phenomena that has been picked up by some of the companies who sell or make rods has been picked up very wrong, I don't claim to be an expert by any chalk but some of these companies have read or been informed on one or two things happening at World International level and then went "Aha! we can do this, its easy" I know one very famous angling consultant who was in the middle of having the company he works for make a 6m rod until he found out that the rules would only allow 5m maximum.

These are just my views, gathered over quite a long time working with some top international anglers in a sport that I would work in for nothing if I had too. Incidentally, the first 2 rods I put in my car when I go fishing are a 15ft and a 14ft both rung for multiplier use. Old habits die hard :oops:

That offer still stands on the F/X rod with the very soft tip, I would like to have your opinion on any quiver-tip after you used this rod 8) I am only going by what others tell me about it, simply because it does not suit my style of fishing. and I don't use it that much 8)

Best Regards,
Tom.