red bay co. antrim saturday 29th january

Anyway back to the fishing, I well remember the plaice from Limerick Point and the rocks along Dallreada Drive, there were indeed great days to be had all round red Bay, from the shore and a boat. At one time the bay was full of great Haddock, not that there were any left when I started fishing it, but the guys who had been fishing it for some years old me that they were there in huge numbers and good big fish at that. The oldtimers used haddock spoons, small silver elongate spoon type appendages which were soldered to a long shanked hook, used to be a common sight in tackle shops everywhere, have not seen them for years now, not any big surprise there though, haddock have become so rare there is no market for the spoons any more. (quote)

Wez, I totally forgot about the good pollack we used to bring up and the ridiculous feeling of disappointment when you discovered it wasnt a cod. Its been so long.
For a few years there in the mid to late 90's when the cod all but vanished we started to catch some haddock. I dont think I saw a haddock until about 95? We kinda felt they had filled a niche left empty by the cod but it only lasted a couple of years. They werent big haddock, mostly 1- 1.5lb with a very odd fish about 2lb but they were great eating. I dont expect to catch a haddock these days, its been 4 or 5 years since Ive seen one.

Charlie good post, the destructiveness of trawling cant be mentioned too much!!!

Al you prob didnt intend for all this discussion on your thread, hope you dont mind!

Cathal.

Indeed Cathal, they were great days. I never got any Haddock in my time fishing Red Bay, but men who had fished before I even saw the beauty of the place, told me that there used to be many haddock there and good ones. Some of the Haddock we get in Dingle Bay are very close in, but are still in 60/70 ft of water and they are over solid rock, they appear to feed on starfish, as that is what they disgorge when landed and what we find in their gut. Haddock are my favorite fish of all and I could not have too much of them, have it once a week most weeks.

I fully agree with what you said about Charlie's post, poor trawlermen they always get the wrong end of the stick, problem with reporting like that of HFW is the public at large will continue to believe it.

Regards Wez

thanks for all the comments and discussion lads. like i said before, i welcome open and frank discussion on these matters as it highlights just how good the fishing used to be around our shores before the commercial sector moved in and wiped them out. there is still a high degree of denial from the trawlermen about the level of damage they have inflicted on stocks and the sea bed with the destructive methods of fishing they pratice. a friend of ours who has no knowledge of the seas or fish stocks watched the fish fight programme and commented on how the fishermen should be allowed to take more cod as from his opinion gained from the show was that the seas must be coming down with them as thats all they seemed to be catching this kinda shocked me. it seems the commercial lads hijacked the show and it was less about discards, and more about showing that the seas are coming down with cod. and i think we know where it is they want to lead public opinion,,,,,, let us catch more cod!!. shocking when you think that over half a million people watched this and signed up to the campaign (including myself). i really hope they all don't think this way.

the only way i could explain the cod stocks situation to my fried in terms he would understand was that, say in the 1970's you had 10 million quid in the bank. now during the 80's and 90's you lost it all and were left with 50 grand. but in the last 5 years you got yourself back up to 100 grand. yes from an outsider looking in you might think "wow you have 100 grand" but you can't compare it to the 10 million you had back in the 70's
now in the 1970's you could afford to give away 50 grand to charity as you had 10 million. but to do it now would almost bankrupt you and take you back to where you were in the 90's.

the same goes for cod stocks. he was quite annoyed as to how decieveing the show portrayed the situation once he was educated.

thanks for all the comments and discussion lads. like i said before, i welcome open and frank discussion on these matters as it highlights just how good the fishing used to be around our shores before the commercial sector moved in and wiped them out. there is still a high degree of denial from the trawlermen about the level of damage they have inflicted on stocks and the sea bed with the destructive methods of fishing they pratice. a friend of ours who has no knowledge of the seas or fish stocks watched the fish fight programme and commented on how the fishermen should be allowed to take more cod as from his opinion gained from the show was that the seas must be coming down with them as thats all they seemed to be catching this kinda shocked me. it seems the commercial lads hijacked the show and it was less about discards, and more about showing that the seas are coming down with cod. and i think we know where it is they want to lead public opinion,,,,,, let us catch more cod!!. shocking when you think that over half a million people watched this and signed up to the campaign (including myself). i really hope they all don't think this way.

the only way i could explain the cod stocks situation to my fried in terms he would understand was that, say in the 1970's you had 10 million quid in the bank. now during the 80's and 90's you lost it all and were left with 50 grand. but in the last 5 years you got yourself back up to 100 grand. yes from an outsider looking in you might think "wow you have 100 grand" but you can't compare it to the 10 million you had back in the 70's
now in the 1970's you could afford to give away 50 grand to charity as you had 10 million. but to do it now would almost bankrupt you and take you back to where you were in the 90's.

the same goes for cod stocks. he was quite annoyed as to how decieveing the show portrayed the situation once he was educated.

I am not that shocked that your friend thought that way Al, had I not known better I would have said let them have all the fish they can catch, I do not know why the scientific evidence was not put to the public, had they had that knowledge, they would not be so much for the poor trawlermen. It is a prime example of half truths doing more harm that the full truth. I have found an e-mail address for River Cottage and am now writing a mail to it. I shall post the address here so if anyone wants too do as I am doing they can send a mail to it. Here is the address press@rivercottage.net. I am also including a link to this thread, I am sure that my mail will be filtered out long before Hugh ever gets near it, but if we do not try then we will never forgive ourselves for not taking this opportunity to do something constructive.

Best regards Wez

Here is the mail I send to the address in the previous post, maybe if some others are going to send a amil they might have a better way of wording the mail and maybe have some points which I have missed.


As I cannot find an e-mail address for Hugh I am sending this mail to you, in the hope that you will make sure that he sees and reads it please.

I have signed your petition Hugh and think that you have done great things to promote better living conditions for chickens and I also fully agree with the need to cut out the discards of good fish. However, I find it inexcusable that you did not tell the full story of what the trawlermen do, not just what they do with fish their quota has has been filled for. You cannot not know the other things the trawlermen get up to and I am afraid that your show has not relayed the full facts to the public of these islands. You have somewhat shot yours self in the foot, by not telling the whole truth of what goes on, because the public are now thinking that these commercial fishermen should be allowed to take all the fish they catch, I am quite sure this was not the massage you intended to bring across.


There was scant mention of the scientific evidence concerning the wellbeing of all commercial fished fish in the waters round the coast of these islands, to tell the public to start eating fish other than cod is very irresponsible and not thought through. You have to know that every fish round these coasts is under far too much pressure, to tell the public to go and eat mackerel and coalfish is not the way to save our fish. I am sure you can recall the days when all you needed to pick up a good catch of mackerel was a bear silver hook, you would be had put to catch enough for a meal now,, using the very best tackle money can buy.

You omitted to let the public know that these trawlermen often land all the fish they can, by landing what they call black fish, fish which have not been counted as part of their quota. You also did not let people know the well known method they use when they have a hold full of small fish, I will use cod as an example, they have a hold full of cod in the 2 to 4lbs mark, later in their trip they land a huge haul of good sized cod, in the 4 to 8lbs mark, they then dump the smaller cod so they can have room in the hold for the bigger and more valuable cod.

I fully understand that you set out with the intention of highlighting the waste cause by the Common Fisheries Policy, and admirable as that is, to leave the public with the impression that the trawlermen are hard done by and victims in this is just not good reporting, they are not, you need only look at the great BBC series " Trawlermen" to find one of the trawlermen who was caught landing "black fish", he had the cheek to sit there and make out he was the victim in all of what happened. You have unintentionally made the public think that trawlermen are hard done by when they are far from that. their methods ruin the sea bed and reefs and do more damage in one single sweep that any other thing on this planet.

I would like to direct you to this thread in Ireland's biggest sea angling forum, it is well read and supported and we have many members from GB also, please take a look here and see what I and others think about what has happened to a once abundant bay in Northern Ireland viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32701&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

The reason I send you the link is that a lot of the posts cover the Big Fish Fight and what it omitted to cover regarding trawlermen, I should also point out that any member which I know has signed your petition, it is not that we do not sympathies with your fight, just that you have not covered everything and that is not the way any journalist should work. If the people of theses islands are to make a proper decision then they heed to have the full facts and not just those which made it easier for you to get more people to sign the petition. I fully understand that had you told the full truth, there would have been few who would have signed the petition, but to tell the story the way you did, has harmed us anglers in no little way. The general public are now all for the raping of our seas, they want the trawlermen to be able to land all they can catch, I am quite sure this was not you intent. All I would ask is that, now you have your petition signed by well over 600,000 people you do another show and make sure that the full truth is told, after all you say you are trying to stop discards, if you do not tell the story of how these trawlermen throw back good fish, so they can have room for more valuable fish, of the same species, then you are far from telling the full story of discards, ARE YOU?

I trust that this will be read by Hugh, I fully understand that he is a very busy person and his time is precious, but please do ask him to read this mail and have a look at the thread the link leads to.

Best wishes and good luck Wez

Hope some of you will take this opportunity to wrote to Hugh and let him know what we feel about his show.

Best regards Wez

Well said Kerrywez!!!

it seems the commercial lads hijacked the show and it was less about discards, and more about showing that the seas are coming down with cod. and i think we know where it is they want to lead public opinion,,,,,, let us catch more cod!!. shocking when you think that over half a million people watched this and signed up to the campaign (including myself).

I too signed the online petition before the program was transmitted - I am sorry I did so now as you are right the program was very bias - the existing quota system may not be the best way of dealing with it but its a hell of a lot better than allowing a free for all which is what would happen if the discard system was abolished.

Hi all I got an out of office reply from them, last night, but nothing since, I was not expecting anything from them anyway, the people who would be reading the mail are there to protect Hugh and will not, in my opinion let him see any mail so critical of him and hi show.

Here is what I got from them, as you can see they have an easy get out clause, they will not deal with other issues, very handy for them to use that one I fear.


Thank you very much for contacting the River Cottage Press Office. Only press related emails will be answered via this address and we will try to respond to you as soon as possible.

Should your query be regarding other issues please visit the contact us page to make sure you have emailed the correct department and you can also go through to our Frequently Asked Questions section to see if your query has already been answered.

Kind regards,

River Cottage Press Office

Best regards Wez

nice few fish caught there the doggie is a beaut

typical response. i wonder will his team make us wait as long for a solid response, as tesco did for hugh during the chicken show. i wonder will the hypocracy be wasted on him

typical response. i wonder will his team make us wait as long for a solid response, as tesco did for hugh during the chicken show. i wonder will the hypocracy be wasted on him

A very fair point Al, I do not expect to receive any reply from them, they are there to keep Hugh well away from the likes of my mail, would not be good for his ego. Whats fair for the gooses and all that, though in this case I would be very surprised if anything came of this, but better to have tried and filed than not have tried at all.

As of today I have still not heard a dicky bird from them, I am not holding my breath waiting, suppose it is the wise thing to do.

How are we ever going to get any sensible point across if there are articles like the one this link points to http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opini ... 56269.html

According to it there is no shortage of cod in the Irish Sea, maybe some of you lads who fish Red Bay might like to write a letter to the paper and let them know what it used to be like and what their poor discredited and hard done by trawlermen have done to Red Bay in particular and the whole of the Irish Sea in general. I for one would dearly love to know just how they figure that a 2% discard of cod is a thing which they can use to say that there are huge stocks of cod, I would have thought that if there bycatch was so low, it only served to prove that the fish are just not there, how the writer can turn the facts round is beyond me. It would seem to me that they have got it about right, the stocks are so low that when the trawlermen have filled their quota they catch precious few of the remaining cod, because the fish are just not there. Let us look at it this way, they get a quota for say 10,000 tones of cod, they go and fill that quota, after they have filled their quota they have only a bycatch of cod, which is 2%. how can that possible prove that the Irish Sea is full of cod, it goes to prove the opposite in my opinion, the fish are not there to be caught, if they were then the laws of physics dictate that the bycatch would be massive also. Can someone please let me see where I have got this wrong because for the life of me I cannot see where the data supports the assertion that there is no pressure on the cod stocks in the Irish Sea.

Best regards Wez