bomber rig

i gave the bomber rig a lash there the other night, and packed it in after an hour, the long top snood continously tangled arounf the bottom snood reulting in a pretty rubbish mess. i'm guessing that it could be the actual line thats causing the trouble as the rig comes highly recommended from all articles i've read on it. any tips to fix the tangled snoods. (snood material was 18lb bs)[/i]

You should never use less than 20lb snood material unless your flatty bashing and also only use low memory snood mono. On a bomber rig the snood strength should be different for each hook length usually use 30lbs and 20lbs.

Donagh

savage! i had kinda guessed that i should up the bs. can you fish the bomber with a big bait/pennell set upon the top, or doess that get messy?

I've only used the 2 hook rig for scratching for dogs and whiting. never combined put a penel or wishbone on. I only use a penel for large baits on a pulley rig fishing for larger fish. Just to clarify what I said Snoods should have different strenghts to avoid tangling.

class in a glass.have you ever fished using the gemini rotten bottom yokes? a picked up a pack the other day and they don't look too convincing

Hi

Always tie a lighter line, say 15 lbs, between the lead and above the rotten bottom link. Sometimes it falls out of the rotten bottom link but you still get the lead back. Other times the snags will gather it up and you will have to pull through the lighter line for a break...

FWIW

i don't meantosound sarcastic, but i understand the basic principle of the rotten bottom, it's the specific design made by gemini? it looks similar to a hair pin, with an additional piece of loose wire. the whle thing is held together by a a small disc towards the top. the theory is upon imact the disc is dislodged due to the sudden water resistance, releasing the weaker line. i'm sorry for the useless discription, but if anyone has fished with them i'm just wondering if they work. they don't instill me with confidence, you can belt a lead no worries it's bomb proof, but it's the reliability of the release of the disc that concerns me..... any other rotten bottom arrangemrnts or ideas out there?

These rotten bottoms links are excellent, I use them all the time. I tie the weak link line (12lb) to the top eye or the link, put the middle pin through the lead and secure with the white disc.
They release every time no problem. They are also very safe with pendulum style casting, compared with the loop and pin method.

cool, i have been using them the past couple of weeks, and as you said they're excellent, they open every time and are really safe.....it was just when i first came across them i was a little concerned about the relatively small disc, and would the impact be sufficient to dislodge it. but of course it does, no worries. they're a great little invention, and i highly recommend them

I just use those Gemini Genie Clips as in http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bull ... php?t=1384

Although I use them less now I'm fishing with 65lb braid!

Hi IDPearl
How do you find braid on the rough?
Iv'e found it useless in 30lb for abrasion resistance (Whiplash braid), also no good for casting at any distance. Although Iv'e never tried anything like 65lb, your comments would be appreciated.

So far, I've had no probs with it in the rough. I do use a long shock leader of around 30 feet, but the difference in feel is still incredible. I normally fish with a pulley rig and if the hook gets caught (as is often the case), you can feel the lead rise and fall on the pulley as you try and retrieve. You can even feel the lead bounce if you tug on the line to free the rig. I guess it does hinder distance, but you don't need the distance in the rough ground I normally fish. 100 yards is ample.

I seem to lose less rigs since I've started using a tear-drop shaped lead istead of the grips I used to fish with. Maybe that depends on the rock surface you are casting into though. I also lose less using a lighter snood on the pulley where fish permit. If it's cod or pollack I'm after, I'll use a 20lb snood on the pulley 2.5 to 3 feet long. If it's anything more fierce down there such as ray or huss, I'll switch to 40 or 60lb snood. Always use a 60lb rig body though.

If ever I'm pulling for a break on the braid, I pull a little extra line off the reel, wrap it round my gloved hand and give it a few tugs to try and dislodge the rig. If that does not release, I'll put more and more pressure on the line. If it is well stuck, the braid will eventually cut through the leader knot. I nearly always pull for a break with one hand holding the rod and the line from the reel wrapped 2 or 3 times round the other hand. If it frees, I quickly release the line and raise the rod in a mad panic to wind in before it gets snagged again. I find if you hold the line as it comes out of the end of the rod, by the time you've dropped the line, picked the rod up and wound in, it's snagged again.

I use both Pro Plus and Whiplash in 65lb, but given the choice between them, I'd use the Whiplash. It is a smoother line than the Pro Plus and falls off the reel straight. The diameter is also slightly smaller.

As for distance, I've seen Donal Domeney chuck a baited pulley near the 200 yard mark with Ron Thompson 33lb braid on the Sports Mag mounted on the Daiwa TDXS 33pm, so it is possible!

Hi

I am really interested to hear about your preference for the whiplash braid Ian, must give it a go myself. I have just converted my rough ground rod to braid and (wait for it) am using 30 lb powerpro.

My rigs (not that I am an expert rig builder) are typically on 50-60 lb mono with 20 lb hook snoods (flourocarbon) and 15-20 lb line for the rotten bottom link (typically old mono that is probably weaker again). If you do have to pull for a break one the theory is that of the weaker links will go and you get most of the rig body back - okay - call me stingy but at the very least you do not lose any of the braid or leave a big length of it on the fishing ground as an additional snag. I recovered a long length and whole rig including a live and very lucky flounder from Keem last year.

I am not mad keen on wrapping braid around hands or fingers. I saw a guy nearly lose his arm with an awful compound fracture (heard it from across the harbour) when a rope he was collecting around his arm was caught by a passing boat. Still gives me the shivers. It may not be the same, but braid can cut very easily and I would agree and emphasise the need to wrap it around a thickly padded arm or gaff handle when pulling for a break.

Pete slowly applies increasing pressure to the "snag" especially in weedy ground, and hey presto as often as not the rig releases possibly with a bent hook or having pulled through the seaweed. You see people jerking a rod all around the place violently and I have always thought that was asking for a broken tip. Having someone else on the reel to wind in when a rig does release is the ideal solution although I admit I forget it myself...

That's my tuppence. BTW, where do you buy the whiplash braid?

Thanks

I'm a sucker for e-bay, I'm afraid. The last one I bought was 300 yards of 65lb Whiplash for 11 sterling with free P&P to UK. I had it posted to a friend who made regular trips back to UK.
There's some on there now for 14.95 + 1.95 P&P http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 43717&rd=1

There's a lot more on there at the moment, but you do have to buy the more modern braids as the manufacture is quite different from the flat braids of old.

I also bought 1500m of 65lb Power Pro a while back from the States, so I have plenty for a while!!

Just remember - e-bay is addictive and can seriously damage you wealth!

Cheer's, very interesting.

Wayne i've seen Donal Domeney and Pearliboy using braid and it really does have it's advantages. i am going to start using it on my fixed spool come summer(?) and plan to have a multiplier loaded with the stuff on the go soon. i am converted! here's to the revolution!

Whiplash is very fine, but I find the abrasion resistance attrocious. Im using Fireline 20lb and havent had any problems (the breaking strain of fireline is way above what is stated)

Frodo,
An easy way to stop any tangle on the bomber rig is to add a small float bead to the top hook, it'll keep it away from the bottom hook. The tangle could be happening on the retrieve though, not much you can do about that.

As for leads getting free from rough ground. I always carry a couple of breakaway type leads with extra long wire ( 8" or more) they can be the kind that come out of the side of the lead body or out of the nose of the lead, either doesn't matter. What it does do is stop your lead from getting into tight snags, once you feel the lead getting stuck give it an extra pull and the speed will make the lead MISS the snag more often than not. A lead lift always helps too.

One last point someone mentioned about breaking a rod tip trying to let the rod do the work on a snagged lead, once the rod is straight up or even leaning backwards away from the sea you are only putting the tip under pressure, some call it "High Sticking" no rod however strong will take much of that kind of use, you run the risk of breaking the tip off. wrap the line around your arm a couple of times (only if your wearing long sleeves) keep your rod tip pointing straight with your line and walk away with your back to the line/lead (remember the X-ray shot of the guy with the lead in his face)

Sorry this got so long :lol:

Tom.

Do NOT wrap braid round your hand or any other part of the body if you are appling serious pressure down the line as it could give you a serious cut through to the bone all too easily, better to wrap it round a reducer or similar if you need to pull for a break. In regards to casting distances achievable with braid it is all relative to the diameter of the line. The advantage braid offers is that you can use a similar breaking strain in a considerably reduced dia, the smaller dia will give you a marked increase in casting distance if thats what your after.

Marty

Sorry if my post confused anyone regarding wrapping line around your arm to aid a break-off I am talking about mono only.

I agree with Marty 100%, I have never used braid, ever! about 15 years ago a friend of mine put it on a boat reel for an offshore wrecking trip we were going on, he got fast up to the wreck and the decky came to help him out, the guy wrapped the braid around his hand 2 or 3 times, he was wearing thick rubber gloves, the boat moved high with a swell and the guy got cut through to the bone. Not a nice thing to see.

Braid is not what you can call user friendly, you need to take more care than you do with mono.

Tom.