Braid line twist

I have recently started to use braid for spinning. However after only two outings the line is completely useless because it has become so twisted. What way should braid be loaded on to a fixed spool reel?. Should the braid tumble of the spool or should I put a pencil through the line holder and load it that way? Much too expensive stuff to dispose of after two outings.

Should the braid tumble of the spool or should I put a pencil through the line holder and load it that way?

Use a pencil (or something similar). Also, don't overfill the spool or loops will come off. If possible, use a reel with good line-lay properties (e.g. Shimano with the Aero Wrap system).

yeah you should spool it on under some tension and as teacher said dont overfill. it could also be the case that you are winding back on loose braid and that is whats causing it to twist and tangle.

because braid has no stretch if you wind back slack line then it will just lie in loose spools and tangle when you cast next, you have to stay in control of it

Are you using a swivel between the spinners and the braid?

It may be that the twists are as a result of the spinner twisting the line as opposed to the bail arm.

I wonder is it because i frequently use a sink and draw action with my lures, This means i am usually winding in slack as i retrieve the lure.

Hi,

Personally gave up spinning with braid for this reason. Yup, using a sink and draw retrieve will crucify you unless you're very very careful because of those loose coils. Crunch time came for me when using surface poppers for bass - same bluddy problem there. I've found braid needs a very consistent retrieve to be effective.
Ok, drastically (in my view) underfilling the spool will solve it but then you are loosing serious distance, it's excatly the opposite of what you should do be doing with a good fixed spool.

I know anglers that use braid exclusively for spinning quite successfully apparenltly but I don't and below are my reasons why... My point is just that I don't think that braid is the be all and end all like some anglers would have you believe... I have a few questions about braid that I want to get off my chest so here goes :-)

1. Extra Sensitivity - absolutely - no contest. Braid 1 Mono 0

2. Higher breaking strain - not as clear as this one. Google Berkley Fireline for example and websites everywhere will tell you that the 20lb stuff is comparable to 8lb mono. Wow! Amazing! Now get some actual diameters. 20lb Fireline is .30mm - that's some crappy 8lb mono they're comparing it against.

Without even looking for premium mono's, without even leaving Berkley, look at some of their Trilene. Trilene Carp comes in at .31mm for their 15lb stuff. All that extra money isn't buying much in the way of increased breaking strain - certainly not as much as most of the spin would have you believe.

If you're pulling for a break with a lure and it's buried in a rock 20lb braid isn't going to do much more than 12 - 15lb mono is. In fact even if it's weed and you have a good chance of getting the lure out, the braid isn't going to do much more for you in this example than the mono is...

Some braids are better than others diameter wise but look at the actual diameter - this "equivalent to 8lb mono" crap they go on about is rubbish.

3. Abrasion Resistance. The main reason I stopped using braids particularly when lure fishing for bass is that you cannot detect the little knicks and cuts that come in the line when fishing over shallow rough ground. You can feel them instantly when running mono back through your fingers - they go undetected with braid. You're blissfully unaware anything is wrong until you're stuck in a snag or worse a decent fish and your braid mysteriously snaps like cotton. Adding a mono leader isn't always the answer, over shallow rough the line can get damaged way back from the lure.

4. Braid casts further. Does it? You'll be using a similar diameter to mono i) for some kind of abrasion resistance ii) to get a decent equivalent breaking strain. Now you turn around and have to underfill the spool to compensate for more problems the braid causes. I reckon a properly set up mono outfit will outcast a braid spinning outfit at it's ease...

5. Cost - So where exactly is all that extra money gone now? The often quoted breaking strain/diameter ratio isn't as watertight as many would have you believe. I'd rather use good quality 12lb mono and replace it that little bit more often. Oh and I still come out with a heap of extra cash in my pocket too!

I've nothing against the stuff, but think it gets way over hyped without people stepping back and looking at the pro's and con's objectively sometimes.

I use it all the time on a big fixed spool from clean beaches. But... no abrasion problems here, extra sensitivity at long range and most importantly - a constant speed of retrieve means all the usual coils/wind knot problems are gone. With the coils/wind knots out of the picture I get away with 8lb diameter (20lb PowerPro) braid loaded to the very lip of the reel which results in awesome distances. It kicks ass here.

That's my thoughts on it anyways, hope all of this rambling is of some use, who knows it might generate some interesting debate :-)

Liam

Pop braid on a multiplier and check it out, solves some of the problems you're talking about there.

try berkley's spiderwire. i use it for spinning and find it casts well and doesn't coil up. it is expensive though at 30 euros for 300yd!

i have moved to braid for a few situations.

float fishing for wrasse, i can use 30 - 50lbs braid that gives me a lot more pulling power over 15lbs mono. mono leader.

jerkbaiting for pike, i use 60 - 80lbs braid, these lures are up to €25 euro i dont want to loose them, nor do i want to leave a lure in one if i hook a big girl.

wobbling deads for pike and perch, for the sensitivity. same for clean beach fishing.


where i would not use it:

ledgering over sharp rocks, shallow spinning over rough groundas liamo said (same reasons)

fishing light ;=lures or bouncing shads, especially if the wind or tidal run is towards you, and causing loose line.

my da cant get on with it at all, you really do need to stay in contact and stay in control.

overall i would say braid is higher performance stuff, less room for error and maybe something you need to get the knack of.

but i must say for some things, i love it

Thanks for that very useful information lads. It seems that my style of sink and draw which I use almost all the time to hit the decent size fish is the cause. Now I have to weigh up the pros and cons of using the braid. Cant see me simply winding in my lures and imparting no life into them though!

What type/brand of braid that you use??I dont know,after 12 years of using them,i never have a problem with them.The only twist problem that i ve come across with a braid is on the earlier model of braid which is flat and not round.Many manufacture claim that their product are round,but actually more to oval or flat.The more strand the braid are make of,the rounder they be.I dont know any western brand that make braid more than 4 strand for their braid,a few japanese brand do produced their braid from 4,8 to16 strand which make them rounder.Other than the line oscilation of the reel itself,bail arm roller of the reel also play an important factor.If it equip with bearing and spin smoothly it will lessen the twisting problem,so oil and clean them regularly.One more things,superlines and braid is not same.Superlines or fusion lines like firelines is a 4 strand braided lines which is coated with some kind of material like plastic wch make them a bit stiff and thick.From my experience with them,the plastic coated will crack after sometimes and will create a lots of friction even on SIC or gold cermet guides ring,not a good choice altho a lots of angler favour them.Braid mostly thin coated and soft,the best braid i think is FINS PRT wch is the strand is individual coated compare to the other brand wch is coated after the strand braided.Theres a lots of other things other then above,the use of line conditioner ,coating sprays etc.

Braid do cast further than mono with the same diameter.The reason is,braid is soft and supple compare to mono.Mono is stiffer (lets assume that we re using FS reel).As we all know the line on FS leaving the spool in coil,the problem with its when using mono,the stiff and memory coil will produce slapp on the rod blank and create more friction.To cast further,the coil need to be tame as soon as possible and directed to travel straight as soon as it leave the spool.The soft braid wont have this friction problem and the wild coil problem,its can be easily direct by the guide to travel in straight path as soon as it leave the spool compare to mono.
As per strength,most braided tested 2x or more than its stated test strength on the spool.Thats why only a certain brand of braided can be use if you want to go for an IGFA record.
Mono can be stretch,a good properties when fighting a long distance battle with the monster with lower breaking strength.But when the stretch is over,it will be mostly useless and easily break.Rather than throwing it away,a changed from end to end can be done,so the inner side of the spool wch is still fresh can be use.
Braid can last for a few years as it is not effected by uv ray like mono.An eccessive exposure of mono under the sun will weakened it and make it brittle.For the strength of the knots,mono is better compare to braided.Just my 2 cent to share,not an argument,hope anybody can add more.