Anyfish Anywhere

[round_ourway]

Can anyone help me i am going to convert my AA Beach to a fixed spool and im looking the dimensions for the ring spacings from the tip down. Thanks Stephen

[beachcaster]

steve look on the uk hooks, conoflex or zziplex site for the ring spaceing of a rod which is the same length and use them.should work out fine,you changing back to the fixed spool reels again????

[Donagh]

Ring Julian at Anyfish Anywhere and ask for the spacing

http://www.anyfishanywhere.com/contact.htm

[round_ourway]

sorry john.. just got back to this post.. no i just want to use it as a fixed spool.. seems better suited tbh.. i want a wee project also

[paul mason]

Why bother, most modern fixed-spool reels will be fine with a rod rung for multiplier, i was using one for years and never found a problem.
The spools on the fixed-spool reels we use today are much narrower than the reels of yesteryear and they don't throw off big loops of line like the old Mitchell 498 and the like and rod manufacturers have been slow to match the rods to the reels.
A lot of the continental rods have incorporated low rider guides as standard on their fixed-spool rods, these are much smaller diameter and sit higher off the blank and there's more of them which gives the rod a much smoother release due to less weight from the bigger rings, it also controls the line better going through the rings and and you don't get as much line violence.

[beachcaster]

paul as a matter of interest what fixed spool reels are you using??and are you not going against the spine of the rod using a fixed spool on a multiplier rod???

[round_ourway]

Why bother, most modern fixed-spool reels will be fine with a rod rung for multiplier, i was using one for years and never found a problem.
The spools on the fixed-spool reels we use today are much narrower than the reels of yesteryear and they don't throw off big loops of line like the old Mitchell 498 and the like and rod manufacturers have been slow to match the rods to the reels.
A lot of the continental rods have incorporated low rider guides as standard on their fixed-spool rods, these are much smaller diameter and sit higher off the blank and there's more of them which gives the rod a much smoother release due to less weight from the bigger rings, it also controls the line better going through the rings and and you don't get as much line violence.

because its rung for a multiplier and i want to use it as a fixed spool rod. The reels i use are actually quite a large diameter and have got caught on the low ring once or twice. again what john has pointed out below that the spine would be on the other side of the rod when using a fixed spool. and i am looking to convert the rod into a rough ground / distance match rod.

[ShaneH]

it dosnt matter what side of the spine you use once the rings are on the top or underneath the spine the natural bend of the rod what you dont want is the rings beside the spines

[beachcaster]

but surely a fixed spool rod bends one way and a multiplier rod bends the other??i was always told a fixed spool rod was built on the soft side of the spine and a multiplier rod on the stiff side if you know what i mean????

[ShaneH]

but surely a fixed spool rod bends one way and a multiplier rod bends the other??i was always told a fixed spool rod was built on the soft side of the spine and a multiplier rod on the stiff side if you know what i mean????

ye thats the way they are built in the factory but it really dosnt matter when im building a blank for some one ill aske them do they want the rings on the hard side or soft side its what ever feels better to the user of the rod its hard to explain thats the best thing about getting your rods custom built you can really get the most out of them

[paul mason]

I think Shane answered your question very well about the spine, a lot of rod manufacturers wouldn't know what a spine was if it bit them on thr arse.
Unless you are a top tournament caster you wont notice the difference what way its rung and it wont make a blind bit of difference for fishing.
What type of reels are you using because most have fairly narrow spools.
There are aficionados that like to have their i's dotted and their t's crossed their is nothing wrong with that I'm like that myself but i wouldn't worry about a spine on a rod it's really not that important for fishing.

[round_ourway]

its really to try and get the most out a rod using a fixed spool and from what i have read and other posts turining the eyes 180 on a multiplier rod to a fixed spool with ultimately effect the action of the rod casting. To be honest its nothing more than being from an engineering background.. i like to take things apart see how they work and put them back together without any missing screws. changing the rod into a fixed spool is something that i have wanted to do for ages to get a bit of experience before i start whipping my own blanks hopefully in the future.

[AG]

its really to try and get the most out a rod using a fixed spool and from what i have read and other posts turining the eyes 180 on a multiplier rod to a fixed spool with ultimately effect the action of the rod casting. To be honest its nothing more than being from an engineering background.. i like to take things apart see how they work and put them back together without any missing screws. changing the rod into a fixed spool is something that i have wanted to do for ages to get a bit of experience before i start whipping my own blanks hopefully in the future.

mudhole.com have some great tutorials on the re site and on youtube

[round_ourway]

cheers andrew i seen some of there vids.. great set of videos

im trying to collect enough toilet roll tubes to build a rod turner hehe

[AG]

cheers andrew i seen some of there vids.. great set of videos

im trying to collect enough toilet roll tubes to build a rod turner hehe

sewing machine motor assembly with foot pedal and a self centreing chuck , then some brackets with wheels etc , should be an easy build .

[round_ourway]

there is an old one in the garage too...

[TubeNFish]

A long time ago research was done on the relative merits of big vs small rings at the butt.
The difference in performance is very small.
However a surprise finding was that twin butt rings 4-6" apart, worked extremely well, and better than many of the single ring alternatives. As I (dimly) recall, this finding was with fixed spool setups.
Maybe somebody else can confirm this from their own memory/archive.

Anyway, the idea of two butt rings close together was considered much too radical for the angling retail market, and no product was marketed, that I am aware of, that used this ringing style.

So an alternative universe suggestion is that you leave the existing butt ring where it is, and tape on the (larger) line gathering butt ring of your choice 4" below the existing, and take it for a test run. If you like it, test at 5" and 6" for tuning, then whip it permanently and you have an interesting conversation starter every time another angler passes you on the way down the beach!

[paul mason]

Thats very interesting i have never heard about that. i'd be very interested to know can you find the source.

[paul mason]

A long time ago research was done on the relative merits of big vs small rings at the butt.
The difference in performance is very small.
However a surprise finding was that twin butt rings 4-6" apart, worked extremely well, and better than many of the single ring alternatives. As I (dimly) recall, this finding was with fixed spool setups.
Maybe somebody else can confirm this from their own memory/archive.

Anyway, the idea of two butt rings close together was considered much too radical for the angling retail market, and no product was marketed, that I am aware of, that used this ringing style.

So an alternative universe suggestion is that you leave the existing butt ring where it is, and tape on the (larger) line gathering butt ring of your choice 4" below the existing, and take it for a test run. If you like it, test at 5" and 6" for tuning, then whip it permanently and you have an interesting conversation starter every time another angler passes you on the way down the beach!

Here is a post Neil Mackellow wrote on the world fishing fourms, i think it's very interesting.


Neil Mackellow – April 2002

Easy rider

We all know you need a set of huge rings to contain the coils thrown off by fixed-spool reels. It’s the penalty we have to pay for using them, right? Well, Fuji think not…

After extensive testing including the use of cameras shooting 20,000 frames per second they have come up with a new set of guides - Low Riders. These unusual looking rings are said to increase casting distance, increase rod power, increase accuracy, improve sensitivity, improve rod balance and eliminate line twist and line tangles. Pretty impressive stuff you might well say, but it is not as simple as that, is it ever?

On the face of it you would think Fuji were taking the you know what by trying to sell us a set of fixed-spool rings with a maximum size 20. After all the tournament boys use 15ft back casters with just three rings, a 50, 40, 30 with a 20 tip. Well yes and no, when I started casting over 20 years ago three rings for a fixed-spool rod was the norm. But after a couple of years I was using a conventional long pendulum rod with six rings from 40 to 12 for fixed-spool work and was competitive.

Some modern fixed-spool rods have five or six high standoff lightweight guides and perform well. One area where the fixed-spool does fall down is unexplained crack offs. Mostly these are caused by lose line wrapping round a ring frame, and it’s not always the butt or stripper guide that causes the problem. Obviously the line is not flowing though the rings as smoothly as it could and this is confirmed by the shots taken with the high speed Fuji camera. And this is the area Fuji are addressing with their Low Rider guides.

However, while fixed-spool technology leapt forward a few years ago and the coned spool made a huge improvement to performance, spools are still in the main fairly large diameter and regardless of the cone you still have large coils flowing up to and beyond the first ring. Having given casting demonstrations in Japan and competed against them in the USA I have had the opportunity to study their equipment, notably reels that are predominantly fixed-spool.

Japanese reels have coned spools too but are longer and in the main smaller in diameter than ours. After considerable testing and comparisons with a number of different reels my conclusion is that a large diameter spool creates larger loops of line than a smaller diameter coned spool and that the smaller coils settle down a lot quicker as they pass through the rings resulting in increased distance.

Obviously a lot depends on line diameter and what sort of weight you are throwing, plus the positioning of the guides along the rod blank. I obtained a Zziplex 3500 fishing rod blank for testing purposes and from the Fuji literature selected the appropriate ring spacing guide. Seven guides were required, ranging from the 20mm stripper or butt ring plus another six intermediates comprising 16, 12, 2 x 10 and 2 x 8 plus a tip. The rings were provided by H & H, the UK Fuji people.

The spacing for the rings was very similar to a conventional multiplier with a slightly longer gap from reel to butt ring. They recommended the reel seat be 88cm - nearly 35in - up from the butt cap while even at 6ft 2in my comfortable reach was only 29in – just under 74cm. However, this all worked out quite well and the spaces between rings and from reel to butt ring worked out spot on with the Fuji recommendations which were:

Ring to ring in cm: 16 – 18 – 23 – 25 – 30 – 40 – 45
Reel seat to butt ring: 120cm

The sharp eyed amongst you will have noticed that contrary to normal practice the butt ring has been attached with the single leg facing the reel and all the others in what we would term the ‘right’ way with the single leg facing the tip guide. I would add that back in the early 80’s I was attaching BNHG rings to multiplier rods with the single leg facing down. My theory being that the line was less likely to rub on the single leg than the double leg and as I was deeply into distance casting and was looking for every extra foot I could find.

For the trials I used a Penn Surfmaster 70 fixed-spool reel with the spare graphite spool loaded to within 2mm of the lip with 0.33mm mono topped of with a Varivas tapered leader and a 150g beach bomb. The spool is just under 70mm diameter at the base, tapering to 60mm at the top and holds around 300 yards of 0.35mm line when loaded level with the spool lip.

So, having cast with a 3500 using a multiplier in the past I had an idea of the rods action. However, while it’s predecessor the 2500PTX was a pussy with a multiplier it tended to breathe fire when a fixed-spool was attached. So, time for the showdown.

It was sunny but windy, blowing a steady force four or so over the right shoulder from the northwest. Getting the rods to stand upright for these shots was not easy! However, standing on top of the wall with the wind veering about 30 degrees to the left was going to provide interesting conditions for testing a fixed-spool rod. Lose line from the spool would pull off to the side increasing the chances of ring wrap.

With no favours to the rod, rings or reel I made my first cast, an easy but fairly powerful fishing pendulum. No line slapping along the blank, no noise from the line throttling down through the small rings and thankfully, no ominous crack. I wound it all back and pressed on with another smooth, powerful cast that saw the lead flying straight and true and despite the side wind the line following the lead looked more like I was using a multiplier reel. So far I was impressed.

My digital camera will shoot a one second burst of five frames so with David taking care of the casting I knelt as he made his cast and popped up to shoot the line flow as soon as he had completed the power stroke. It took a few attempts to be in the right place at the right time and for David to hold the rod steady, not easy in the wind. But after a few more tries I had 30 or so frames to study for the right shots.

Back home I downloaded the pictures and while many were out of focus or missed the rod completely, there were two sets that confirmed the Low Riders were doing what they were supposed to do. Without doubt, the cross wind had given the line every chance to ring wrap but the arse about face butt ring had done its job admirably.

Right then, about those claims:
1 Increase casting distance, rod power and accuracy.

Well, two out of three ain’t bad, I would agree that distance was increased and by having rings spread out like a multiplier more of the blank was utilised. Accuracy? How can you tell?

2 Improve sensitivity and rod balance

Yes, I would agree that the rod felt better with the additional and smaller rings spread evenly along its length. Balance? I suppose if you normally had just three or four rings bunched up on the tip then yes the balance would be improved by spreading out a smaller set of rings along the blank.

3 Eliminate line twist and tangles.

Line twist, well another hard to quantify claim, especially when it’s the reel that usually generates the twist and no fixed-spool reel is immune from it. For sure, after at least 20 casts by two anglers in far from ideal conditions no ring wraps occurred, and a few were closer to tournament style than fishing style. I’ll go with fewer tangles, which can of course be attributed to excessive line twist so maybe…

Overall I was impressed with the performance of these rings. Initially a little concerned that the extremely small diameter would have an adverse affect on distance, but as you can see from the before and after pictures of the spool my fears were unfounded!
__________________

Neil Mackellow

My point being I happily use the Century 15 foot BB that has low riders
with a shimano Biomaster XSA Fixed spool and have NO casting issues
with it.....the rings also allow me to use my Penn 525 supermag multi and am equally happy.

Gazza


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14-11-2009, 11:49 #7
castout
WSF Regular Poster


Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: ------------------------
Best Catch: 12lbs bass
Favourite Fishing: Shore
Posts: 12 great reply Skatenchips