A.G.M

Phil, I don't understand how you see bait being supplied/restricting baits as a 'step forward'. As Dave said in his post probably 50% of the anglers will blank in next years masters (daylight comps) if not more. It becomes a lottery as many people have said. You also said the teams over the last few years have been 'good enough', they should be as good as we can possibly make them not 'good enough'!!!

Most of our 'top anglers' are against any bait bans, bait restrictions etc as they see it as a step backwards and 'luck' plays more of a part in the outcome of matches. Are they all wrong? I don't think so... These lads are winning comps week in week out and have done so for along time. Time we start listening to what they say instead of ignoring them.

Restricting the bait anglers can use = reduced number of fish CAUGHT by anglers... FACT... = backwards step

What was started off by a few small minded anglers in Leinster a couple of years ago wanting rag, maddies, whites and crab banned in Leinster League Comps has now led/resulted in this. Next years AGM can't come quick enough!

Personally i see it as a step forward purely for the reason that when the team are on international duty they have to fish in these conditions..... most open competitions are different as anglers can turn up with baits that some others can simply not afford, have time to gather, or have access to. if having the widest array of baits at your disposal makes you a better angler than others, i have to say i disagree, the best anglers will come through a level playing field, using the baits supplied to their best advantage. just my opinion though, others are entitled to theirs. it seemed that the majority present at the meeting thought it was a step forward too...

and as far as what baits supplied will be for events, this wasnt discussed, i imagine it will be at the discretion of central/organising provincial council of each event.

as for venues being used for masters competitions etc, at the end of the day this is down to the organisers to select the best possible chance of the best fishing available in the province, and also on venues that are big enough to accomodate over 100 anglers

Having fished the last 2 boat fish-offs and numerous Master Angler competitions I think the best way of picking a team is by fishing as near as possible to the rules of the World Championships and if this means that everyone gets the same amount of bait then so be it.
So what if it means fewer fish caught, it means that those who catch them are better anglers.
In this years fish-offs each angler got 5 mackerel,1 box of squid and 40 rag for each day.Result 6000 fish caught!
However I never paid €180 to fish Curlane before:lol: I suppose the bait was expensive!!!!

I see it as a step in the wrong direction completely, When it comes to the masters lads do their homework and put the time
and energy into getting the correct type and amount of bait needed. To say that using supplied bait simulates how the internationals are run is wrong because nobody is fishing as part of a team in the masters are they? I can't see it working and unfortunately if the best anglers decide not to fish the masters there are a hundred "Joe Bloggs" who will and we will
end up with an average team representing a country with some top anglers at home..

I too couldn't make it to the AGM but having read all the posts so far I would have to agree with Dave.
A bait restriction on the Master Angler seems to be a disaster in my opinion, as Barry has said many of us put in time and effort to collect bait for competitions be it club, Opens or Masters.
How to control the quality of bait supplied is always going to be an issue. It seems to me it penalise the guys who work hard to ensure their bait is in it's best condition, why is supply bait seen as levelling the playing field? Is it because we dont want to some people excel?

The top anglers in this country are top anglers because they put in a big effort to be at that level, why pull them back because the rest are not there yet. If you want to compete with the best then work hard to be the best! If not then don't try hold people back

this is my opinion / view only

T

I can't see it working and unfortunately if the best anglers decide not to fish the masters there are a hundred "Joe Bloggs" who will and we will
end up with an average team representing a country with some top anglers at home..

And if the average 'joe bloggs' anglers decide not to fish the masters if it goes down routes they dont like then the money wont be there to send a team away!! As I said before, some kind of a compromise needs to be reached, whether it be to leave the home nations team system well enough alone for the 'average joe bloggs' to have a chance at a green blazer, and for those wanting ultra competitive fishing to go for the worlds system and leave it up to those involved to set the rules for it?

Can the federation continue if the so called 'top anglers' dont involve themselves.... probably, can it continue if it loses all the 'average joes'..... i don't think so.

I dont know.... all i know is that club memberships arent increasing, and we cant afford to lose any more anglers, so we need to be very careful what way we approach things in the future!

All I am saying is that we should be sending the best we have, The average Joe bloggs will have some sort of aspirations
and can get to the top level of course but only when anglers are at that level should they be representing their country at International or home nations IMHO...

well none of the systems in place suit the normal joes all club competitions are completely competitive and clubs are losing anglers at this level there not been lost cos of how the masters are been fished any fishing the masters are there cos there good anglers and are fighting for a place on the team.
having the best bait knowing how to keep and use it as well as when to use it is one of the biggest skills in angling and we are taking this out now.the motion was put in by a boat angler can i ask why?or who asked him to put it in?
any we will just have to wait till next year and a new motion will change it back

im just an average joe but i thought that one reason for suppling baits for the world competitions was that all anglers would be using bait that local fish where used to seeing as food items if so then i dont see why they should be supplied for any competitions here at home wheh i fish competitions here either club events or opens i like to make sure that my bait is the best i can get and the only way to ensure this is to gather it myself on another note i heard that there was going to be no minimum hook size and in open and other competitions that the first 10 under size fish would count if thats the case theres going to be an awful lot of under size dead fish from next year so all in all i dont want my bait supplied and i want to fish with hooks of a size that suits me my bait and the fish by the way i dont fish with any hook smaller than a 2 and this has postage stamp size flatties landed on them

Hi Eddie,

Your Point on one of the reasons bait is supplied at World events is Correct, it's also that way because anglers cant be expected to ship there bait from country to country.

There is no minimum hook size in the IFSA.
The 10 undersize fish rule only applies to the Master Angler , Jimmy Smith and the Fish offs competitions.
This rule was brought in mainly to reduce blanks , at a set 5 pts per fish they would not be a primary target.
But as you pointed out yourself even when using size 2 hooks they get landed anyway so you might as well be scoring from them.

Pretty much the same as the undersize 5pt fish rule that was fished in a lot of the Benone opens in the North last year.

Dave.

[fishfinder]

I was at this years AGM and I left feeling very frustrated ,there were a lot of very good proposals put forward at the meeting,some of them got passed and some rejected but overall I felt things were moving forward,that is until the motion from the ardmore sac was put to the floor "That the bait used in the Master Angler Shore Championships be supplied by the organisers and no other bait be used" this motion was then amended on the day to include the fish offs.
IMO this is a huge step backward, its hard enough to catch fish at the masters when you can choose the baits that you think you will need for the venues .Lets look at some of the venues used over recent years Wexfords east coast will the organisers supply maddies I don't think so ,the slob bank in Youghal will crab be provided I don't think so, these venues would be a complete disaster fished under the bait supplied rule.
Now that you will be using baits that you have no influence over ,there will be no guarantee of the quality of the bait you will be supplied with. I put in a big effort every year at club level to qualify for the masters late nights collecting bait and preparing gear for competitions .This rule has turned the masters into a joke!

Some people have said bait is supplied at international events,let me tell you of my experience of that, I fished a home nations event in recent years, we were given rag and fish baits, on the first day the bait was OK , but by day 2 the rag had turned to orange and green muck,all of the teams refused to use it. The competition organisers had to go and find more bait this was only possible because the comp was in a part of the UK where there were several good tackle shops near by, and they were only dealing with 20 anglers.
Now lets look at up coming master angler in October, if something similar happens to the bait where are the organisers going to get replacement bait for 100 to 150 anglers, it simply wont happen,what if something happens the night before the comp starts.i have lost count of the number of stories I have listened to my bait was OK last night and now its all mush.
We could be fishing the full competition with frozen baits,come to think of it we don't know if they will have the capability of supplying huge numbers of live bait.
IMO a major part of angling is collecting your own bait .

I have qualified for the master angler comp in 2011 and to be honest after this decision I have no interest in taking up my place.I think that this rule has turned the masters into a lottery.

At the agm and in some of the posts above there is lot of talk about the "Joe bloggs" angler and how the new proposals were going to stop him from getting on the Irish teams.
IMO the standard of angler in the federation is a lot higher than some people give them credit for,I know from talking to people on the beaches, that nobody wants the Irish team qualifying to be down to luck, people want to feel that they earned the right to be on the Irish team.At the end of the day if an angler is good enough to come through his club and qualify for the masters, and then have a top 10 finish, he will qualify for the fish offs and if he finishes in the top 5, he is good enough to be on the international team .
This Is what every angler that fishes club master angler competitions is hoping to achieve, but you wont get to that level with out hard work and effort . I'm sure that the so called "Joe Bloggs" angler is more than capable of rising to challenge of Irish team qualification,I personally don't feel that anglers will walk away, we all want to see a system in place where the best anglers in the country will be representing our country .
Just look at results achieved by our young anglers at this years home nations, these are the kind of results that can be achieved when the right systems are in place,in their selection system they are not tied to the out dated selection system we still use for the senior home nation team they simply select the 5 top anglers in the country.

Last edited by fishfinder on Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the youths are NOT the same - the 4 provinces have equal representation going into the fish off and from those 20 the best five qualify for the home nations team

my opinion is that the fish off system via the masters which is now up to 36 members will pick the best anglers for the world team

leave the joe bloggs, hacker, people like me to the home nations - as many of you have said you dont want to have pot luck anglers in there

but many of you have to agree also that you can fish away at club comps til the cows come home but go to an interpro or a big open or the jimmy smith or the masters and you will learn so much

ask anyone that has been on a home nations team for the first time and they will say the same - you pick up so much - maybe this improvement in anlgers skills will help some anglers realise their potential

in any case i think the pot luck element for the home nations team - is more a problem in leinster (as i understand it) as it was held over one leg only - in connaught its held over 4 legs (this year was 3) so there is less luck involved

maybe if a province has more legs it takes the luck out of it - if it doesnt then its more pot luck - but is that just a reflection of the provinces rating of the home nations competition?

with the lads doing well this year away this year maybe its the fish offs and the small changes made over the last few years paying off

Hi ,

long long time reader ,first time poster just cant help making a point on this one
i myself my brother and my father are all x members of the ifsa , we left in 2002 after just having enough of such
a un professional backward orgasisation, my self and the brother always aspired to one day make it to internatioal level ,we put in the work but never got anywhere as hard work and being the best is not supported by the ifsa ,the system were based on luck and still a large part still is, weak systems produce weak anglers its human nature to only be as good as you need to be...i have been foolowing this thread with possible excitment, yes i said excitment ! not in my life tme did i ever think the ifsa would be reformed.i have one word for those taking on this task ADMIRATION they have a difficuklt task ahead of them. i am still an angler i could not stop fishing if i tryed .but what i want to get across is this .if the ifsa was to be brought up to scratch and the international scene was run like every other sport.ie' correctly, i could really see my self rejoining the game again, my brother is of the same thoughts and we can not be alone on this as so many left for similer reasons.i really hope you are successfull

best wishs
tony

I was at this years AGM and I left feeling very frustrated ,there were a lot of very good proposals put forward at the meeting,some of them got passed and some rejected but overall I felt things were moving forward,that is until the motion from the ardmore sac was put to the floor "That the bait used in the Master Angler Shore Championships be supplied by the organisers and no other bait be used" this motion was then amended on the day to include the fish offs.

Don't see to many of Armore SAC members on the forum backing up their motion!!!! Better they get up off their arse and put in the effort getting the bait like everyone else, instead coming up with crazy motions that will do more damage than good!!!!

Had a few replys written, but I just deleted the lot!
Decided its best to wait till next years AGM and put in a load of proposals, because no matter how much we discuss things that happened on Saturday here, we all arent going to agree on it, nor indeed will it change anything.... what went through on Saturday, will be the way things are going to be for the next year anyhow so we all just have to get on with it whether we like it or not!

I have been reading all the posts over the past few days and there have been many good points made, and also many backward points.
The collection of, storage of, correct selection of, and usage of, bait is a hugely important part of a top anglers armoury, as is the ability to cast, read a beach, construct traces etc etc.
These are all skills learned and practiced throughout your club competitions, freelance sessions etc.
When it comes to anglers aspiring to international fishing this is all part of the grounding they need, but at international level the ability to use, ration, and adapt to the bait that is supplied is of paramount importance, I cannot stress this enough.
give a top angler the same bait as everyone else and he will still consistently finish on top, give a mediocre angler incredible bait and he will shine, give him the same as everyone else and he won't, apart from the odd lucky outing.
When you go away to fish for your country against the best, you have to be able to utilise whatever you are given as every angler gets the same bait.
we all know of anglers turning up for a match on the slob with 10dozen prime peelers and finishing well, or the angler with a huge supply of snake and matchstick whites on the east coast and doing well, now did they win or do well beacuse they were superb anglers?, or was it because they had access to baits that most others didn't ???
would they have done as well if everyone had the same bait ????.. thats what marks out a top angler
Learning the basics of fish behaviour, rig construction, casting, reading the beach, being adaptable etc are the characteristics of consistently top placed anglers, being able to supply your own bait gives a small few anglers too many advantages, and thats why at international level all baits are supplied.
I would have no problem with anglers being allowed to bring their own bait to the masters, but the fish offs should, without question, be a supplied bait only competition, and anyone who gets into the fish offs just because of the quality of bait they can obtain will be quickly found out if the rest of their skills are not up to scratch.
As to the teams I for one think we should only ever contemplate sending away the best possible teams to world and home international events, and not leaving the home internationals for anglers who want an easier chance of qualifying, To ensure the best possible teams I think that the winners of the provincal closed events, and the jimmy smith should all go into the fish offs, I don't believe the Master angler should be team captain, he should have to go into the fish offs as well, then you would have the top 5 in the fish offs make the world team, and next 5 make the home international team.
Within a couple of years of this, you will start to see the same few names always at the top, and the experience gained, will lead to medals being won, not to mention the general improvement in the angling of the pool members by constantly being exposed to the top level.
Case in point last year in the boat fish offs you needed to have 41pts or better to qualify for the team, in this years fish offs you needed to have 30pts or better indicating that pool members had to have had improved by 25% to qualify.. this has to benefit the team in the long run.
It is up to clubs to run lots of competitions of a type that will attract anglers that want to fish at a less intense level whilst also catering for those that want to progress, thats how to keep numbers up in the federation, An angler who truly has the drive and desire to fish for his country will do what he can within the system to achieve his goals, if he drops out because of "politics" or "the way things are done" then I for one would question was he ever really that interested ????
THE ONLY WAY TO CHANGE IT IS FROM THE INSIDE NOT FROM THE OUTSIDE MOANING !
But as we can see from the AGM change is finally coming, and maybe that will encourage those who left a long time ago when getting team on a team could be a lottery , and who were not aware of how much things are changing, to return to the sport.
There has been an attitude prevelant in the past, and it is still widespread, that any angler who pays his membership is entitled to be on an Irish Team, and until this is changed we will never move on as a federation, all of the proposals are put forward by people who want to see change, who are sick and tired of non anglers making descisions, who are desperately trying ideas to improve things that may be right, or indeed may be wrong but until we try who knows, but overall they want to see us come out on top at world and home intrernational level because God knows there are enough world class, or potential world class anglers in this country to do it.

Dave

The best post by anyone yet .
Well done big man

As to the teams I for one think we should only ever contemplate sending away the best possible teams to world and home international events, and not leaving the home internationals for anglers who want an easier chance of qualifying, To ensure the best possible teams I think that the winners of the provincal closed events, and the jimmy smith should all go into the fish offs, I don't believe the Master angler should be team captain, he should have to go into the fish offs as well, then you would have the top 5 in the fish offs make the world team, and next 5 make the home international team

Glad you approve Paul......

looking at this it is easy to see that shore anglers on the site are against the bait rule ,the boat anglers are for it.its a shore issue that will have to be resolved at next yars agm and just deal with it till then.
as a boat angler as well as a shore angler i can see where the boat lads come from as bait suplyed for boat competitions is a great one reason for this is all you really need out in a boat in any part of the country is rag and mackerel and they are easy to get and rag are farmed so readily avabile.
as for shore fishing the baits needed crab ,lug maddies ,wraps are not farmed are not readily avabile even if the bait could be got it is hardr to keep these baits alive then it is baits for the boat and the rag and lug beds in the country would be distroyed rather then everyone doing a bit of digging in there own areas one or two diggers supplying the competition would distroy one of two areas.
i find it hard to belive that some people cant see or just dont understand the bigger pictures
1)fishing on most venues will lead to alot of blanks even for the top anglers knocking them out of the pool
2)the extra hassle of the club hosting the competition getting the bait and keeping it alive
3)clubs wont want to take the competition with the extra hassle who will run it then
4)the extra cost to ifsa clubs around the country to send away an angler cos the entry fee will go up to pay for the bait and a lot of clubs are already in trouble.
5)were will the bait be got from if its dug from where i know one rag bed in my area is distroyed from commercial pressure alread and 2nd not far behind.
6) talk already amoung anglers of people not fishing cos of new bait rule if the best lads wont fish cos of it we wont have the best on the team.

[onlyacod]

From talking to other anglers and reading through this forum, AGM 2011 is going to be a big event! They may need to hold it somewhere like the Aviva Stadium and put a ring in the middle of the pitch!

Last edited by onlyacod on Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.