leinster league bait ban

with falling numbers of anglers and fish at leinster league competitions ,is it time to take a look at the bait ban again ?

ban bait-bans forever!!!!!!!!!!!

not just look at it scrap it
it is hard enough to bag up on fish on the east coast in day light with all baits
if a angler puts in the effort with gear and baits well be it
imo the bait ban may work fishing at night in the winter for whiting
but with the whiting at its end and the few dogs showing up
it would be mad standing for 4hrs in day light and hope for a fish or 2 to save a blank
and knowing that if you had maddies,rag and crab the chances of a lot more fish
i do know that if the bait ban was lifted there would be a lot more wexford anglers fishing
leinster league

The Bait restrictions put me off the Leinster League,

SIMPLE SOLUTION LADS
Put in a Proposal for the Leinster agm to SCRAP IT
Wexford clubs turn up in your droves to vote on it
There WILL be support from Leinster to back you up starting with myself

End result...... No more bait bans and back to moving forward instead of backwards

Regards ,
Dave.

Actually think alot of the LL are 5 hours lad which is worse again with the current bait restrictions put in place, i know it has stopped me fishing LL now and i am one person who one time wouldnt miss a LL. Id far prefer now to put a good effort into my pleasure angling and fish when and where i want and get a few fish than paying €30 to fish a LL and get sweet f all,

just my opinion,

Ger.

Imposing bait bans on competitions restricts anglers catching fish, why restrict anglers catching fish, i thought fishing in competitions was all about catching fish and and as many as you can "doo"
The bait ban was imposed on leinster anglers (they say) to level the playing field and cut out the hardship involved in collecting such baits, nonsence i say it was an excuse for lazy f***ers too interested in drinking pints in the pub rather than collecting a bit of bait.(yes it does favor the lucky angler having bait bans)
I like most interested match anglers would like to see bait bans abolished and every bait included in all competitions and get rid of this nonsence once and for all.
These are my feelings on this matter and i have always expressed them openly.

[BigPhil]

i have never fished a leinster league match, chances are i never will, so please take my comments purely as a view on it and nothing else.
its just going back to my point that i have made for years, that once you reach an international level, whether it be home or world level on an irish team, that you must fish with baits provided, ie, certain baits banned and only a certain amount of each bait which is equal to all other anglers you are competing against. in this situation , it doesnt matter how much time and effort or finance you put into bait collection in the lead up to a competition, these are the situations you are going to find yourself in once you reach the top of the game, so why not prepare yourself in anyway possible should it be pleasure or match fishing to fish in these kind of situations to start with and build your angling skills based on that?
bait bans are possibly one of the best practical ways to start on this ladder( in the right circumstances)
if the playing field is leveled as best it can be, surely the best anglers who use what they have available due to the rules deserve the results?
we can talk about 'lucky fish' , 'i went out of my way to gather x amount of whites, maddies or crab so i deserve my win if i catch on those baits which others dont have' etc till the cows come home, but what is the fairest system to the federation membership as a whole?

i used to purely coarse match fish years ago, and from as far back as i remember bloodworm was banned as it was purely beneficial to to those who could afford to buy it, if it were to be allowed, then the average angler who couldnt afford it or have access to accquire it may have well not turned up to compete, the down side of that would have been lost revenue to the federation/organising body(club/league/council), which leads to nothing but the demise of the sport...

Last edited by BigPhil on Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Phil,

The reason for international matches being "Bait Provided" is to level the field for guys from other countries who may have never seen or heard of the local baits used at the chosen venue, like say Brazil etc. The banning of certain bait here in Ireland or the UK where fish are so hard to find most of the time is crazy, this hasnt got anything to do with leveling the field, you may as well draw lots and save your enegy.

Phil with respect..freshwater coarse fishing is a million miles away from saltwater shore fishing.

Tom.

im not so sure i would agree with you on that , as at home nations all baits would be known and used regularly by al countries taking part?so i would say it is there to level the field. The baits which are provided are generally the best baits for the choosen venues anyhow, sometimes with the odd red herring threw in there as well. so a bit of skill comes n there through your practise with the baits, finding what works best and then getting the most from this during the match time.
the way things are going i would say that shore angling is getting closer to freshwater coarse match fishing as regards to gear, rigs hook sizes almost all the time, as the general size and quantity of fish are in decline all the time and tactics and gear have to be refined accordingly.

I dont see the banning of certain baits restricting good anglers anyhow, they should still come through if using the same baits as others

Hi phil good to see you back.
We in leinster have had a bait ban in place for a number of years now and i have not seen any improvement on international level be it the home international or the full international given that a number of leinster anglers have qualified for same over the years and are restricted by this ban, i dont see how bait bans help the cause of our international anglers in fact its the opposite
when fishing abroad in other contries there are different baits much finer baits more delagit baits(like wrigglers and maddies) that requires the use of bait needles to apply them to the hook and the ability to cast those baits a long way. now how can you expect a irish team to do well when they have no experience in using such baits.
This might i add is a far cry from a bit of lug and mackerel that we a forced to use in the leinster league. I like most anglers in the federation have chucked good money after bad at international teams with poor results. (How long would man utds sponsors be around if they put out an average team every week) We can sit here and discuss this until the cows come home but the facts are there for all to see we have poor results at international level and its not going to change unless we do something about it "now."

im not so sure i would agree with you on that , as at home nations all baits would be known and used regularly by al countries taking part?so i would say it is there to level the field. The baits which are provided are generally the best baits for the choosen venues anyhow, sometimes with the odd red herring threw in there as well. so a bit of skill comes n there through your practise with the baits, finding what works best and then getting the most from this during the match time.
the way things are going i would say that shore angling is getting closer to freshwater coarse match fishing as regards to gear, rigs hook sizes almost all the time, as the general size and quantity of fish are in decline all the time and tactics and gear have to be refined accordingly.

I dont see the banning of certain baits restricting good anglers anyhow, they should still come through if using the same baits as others

There you go contradicting yourself again Phil......Bait Provided is to level the field and the bait provided should and most times is the best available, its done to aid the ctching of fish, not to restrict the catching of fish as its meant to in the Jimmy Smith event.

Good anglers blank all the time with good baits and banning baits turns a match into a lottery! ask any GOOD angler.

You think the hook sizes we're been forced to go down to makes saltwater shore fishing akin to freshwater....c'mon Phil, get real

Tom.

Fair points made Paul, like i say , its been a while since i fished in leinster, and have seen where the wrigglers,maddies etc are required to get the few extra fish.
at world level in certain countries experience with such baits will help, although at home nations they dont get supplied anyhow so no need to worry abut them.
are there any signs of the ban showing 'average' anglers improve themselves, giving them a bit my confidence with better results in competitions?

Imposing bait bans on competitions restricts anglers catching fish, why restrict anglers catching fish, i thought fishing in competitions was all about catching fish and and as many as you can "doo"
The bait ban was imposed on leinster anglers (they say) to level the playing field and cut out the hardship involved in collecting such baits, nonsence i say it was an excuse for lazy f***ers too interested in drinking pints in the pub rather than collecting a bit of bait.(yes it does favor the lucky angler having bait bans)
I like most interested match anglers would like to see bait bans abolished and every bait included in all competitions and get rid of this nonsence once and for all.
These are my feelings on this matter and i have always expressed them openly.

I totally agree with what Paul has said.
You fish the venue with what bait works best,2 years ago the Home Internationals were held in Youghal and the teams were issued with Rags and Mackeral this area is a CRAB venue and the results that came back was a joke there were a whole heap of blanks particularly with the youths teams.
When it comes to the team selection the anglers should be able to use bait for the venue fished.
When the Interprovinials for the Under 21s and under 16s are fished they are restricted to bait that is set out by IFSA but if you fish both the Master Angler and the Closed Shores which selects the Senior team there is no bait resitrictions.
In relation to the Home Nations ok they have to use the bait set out by SALC (i dont agree with it) but for a team who always arrives 1 day before the competition starts and just gets if lucky 1 pratice session is a joke the other teams are there a few day more and are getting pratice and bond as a team, where the Irish team have 1 meeting and then see you over there. the teams should have regular pratice sessions to inprove speed and casting etc and bond as a unit.
Sorry just went off there but thats why i think the teams are not up to speed when they compete for IRELAND.

phil i'm a little confused about the last line in your post i just dont get it ???
With our system at the moment we are never going to do well at international level.

1/
OUR TOP ANGLERS RARELY QUALIFY FOR THE IRISH TEAM
2/
WE NEVER HAVE A SETTLED TEAM( to build experience and draw from that knowledge every year)
3/
LETS TAKE THE ("AH! SURE IT'S HOLIDAY" SYNDROME OUT OF IT)
ITS NOT A HOLIDAY YOUR REPRESENTING YOUR COUNTRY.
4/
I THINK THE WAY FOWARD IS TEAM SELECTION LIKE IT OR NOT ITS THE PROVEN SYSTEM (LOOK ACCROSS THE POND)
5/
WE HAVE A WEALTH OF UP AND COMING YOUNG TALENT AT THE MOMENT WHY NOT USE ALL OUR RESOURCES TO MAKE SURE THEY REPRESENT IRELAND IN THE FUTURE. (PAY FOR COACHES AND HAVE SUMMER CAMPS ECT.) WE CAN GET THE MONEY THE PRAWN SANDWICH BRIGADE USE TO PAMPER THEMSELVES AT MAJOR EVENTS FOR THIS COACHING.

I COULD GO ON FOR EVER BUT I THINK I'LL HAVE TO STOP THERE AAGH!

Hi Paul, im meaning, since the bait ban has came in, have some anglers who perhaps never figured in matches before improved their results? Or are the top anglers still ending up at the top once the league has finished? Is it making a big changes to results overall?

In a nutshell no, if you look at the l/league tables over the past 4years or so (you can see them on the leinster site) still the same anglers with a few changes it hasn't made a difference.

You think the hook sizes we're been forced to go down to makes saltwater shore fishing akin to freshwater....c'mon Phil, get real

Don't agree here Tom. "Match" rods are getting more and more like heavy feeder rods all the time, especially when in comes to scratching. Just look at the Hiro and Grauvell range with twin tips and such. Even the Better Match Zziplex rods have nice soft tips. If it wasn't for for the fact that we need to use heavier leads and put the bait further out, we'd be using Carp feeder rods now. Hooks sizes on the continent match scene are already down to coarse levels.

Just my 2c

Kev

You think the hook sizes we're been forced to go down to makes saltwater shore fishing akin to freshwater....c'mon Phil, get real

Don't agree here Tom. "Match" rods are getting more and more like heavy feeder rods all the time, especially when in comes to scratching. Just look at the Hiro and Grauvell range with twin tips and such. Even the Better Match Zziplex rods have nice soft tips. If it wasn't for for the fact that we need to use heavier leads and put the bait further out, we'd be using Carp feeder rods now. Hooks sizes on the continent match scene are already down to coarse levels.

Just my 2c

Kev

Surf rods have SOFT tips to nod with the tide without pulling the leads out of grip as well as bite detection. Stiff tip rods that are well designed show a bite as good as a soft tip rod. Fix spool rods work for better distance with a stiffer tip anyways. The fact that you pick up on that being an issue between both sports makes me wonder just how much you understand about shore match fishing and why the gear used in the first place, granted Bass rods and some Carp rods are similar but similararities in use are from totally different directions.

"Even the Better Match Zziplex rods have nice soft tips" whats that supposed to mean? "even" like Zziplex are just starting to make soft tip rods....dont know what your trying to say there but it sounds like a silly thing to say. Zziplex have made sort tip rods since they first started....errrr 2500M comes to mind!

As to hook size, it is a well known fact that small hooks can catch big fish and big hooks are unlikely to help in catching small fish, how does that make shore angling come closer to freshwater coarse fishing.

My quote had nothing to do with rods though, I stand by what I say in response to BigPhils statement regarding shore angling getting closer to freshwater coarse angling is way off the mark.

Tom

Surf rods have SOFT tips to nod with the tide without pulling the leads out of grip as well as bite detection. Stiff tip rods that are well designed show a bite as good as a soft tip rod. Fix spool rods work for better distance with a stiffer tip anyways. The fact that you pick up on that being an issue between both sports makes me wonder just how much you understand about shore match fishing and why the gear used in the first place, granted Bass rods and some Carp rods are similar but similararities in use are from totally different directions.

I was thinking about Carp "Feeder" rods as apposed to the standard Carp Rod. I totally understand the points expressed above.

"Even the Better Match Zziplex rods have nice soft tips" whats that supposed to mean? "even" like Zziplex are just starting to make soft tip rods....dont know what your trying to say there but it sounds like a silly thing to say. Zziplex have made sort tip rods since they first started....errrr 2500M comes to mind!

I think your taking me up wrong here. I have noticed the fairly recent trend for most rods now having a soft tip. Not withstanding your first point about their ability in wind and tide, they also are a great help for the smaller bites we now have to get accustomed to. Zziplex have always been ahead of their time. Even I know that

As to hook size, it is a well known fact that small hooks can catch big fish and big hooks are unlikely to help in catching small fish, how does that make shore angling come closer to freshwater coarse fishing.

Probably as there is now talk about size 10 hook being used in major comps. This size hook would be similar to what I would use in a lake for Tench

My quote had nothing to do with rods though, I stand by what I say in response to BigPhils statement regarding shore angling getting closer to freshwater coarse angling is way off the mark.

I agree we are moving way off Topic, but it's interesting stuff all the same. I wouldn't expect you not to stand by what you say Tom. Just because you do, doesn't mean it's right. Many people who have done both Coarse fishing and some shore match fishing, realize that there are some similarities, especially recently as we all try to get our heads around getting quantities of smaller fish off sandy venues. Granted, when fishing heavy seas over Rock both sports are a million miles away.

Kev