Outboard recommendations...

Have decided to bite the bullet and try and buy a new outboard for my 17.5 footer, nothing wrong with old engine but parts for it if anything did go wrong are rarer than hens teeth... So it has been decided that we will buy a new outboard and keep the old one to put with the boat again when we sell it on.

Looking into this I am faced with an absolute world of choice so lets narrow it down a bit. We dont particularly want to go overboard (ahem!) with what we spend so a limit of about €7k is absolute maximum. I have seen a brand new Johnson 50 2 stroke available at around 5k what are these like? Should I go for 2 or 4 stroke? Anyone any particular recommendations? I see the Tohatsu range are quite a bit cheaper than most, are they any use?

Engine size can range from 25 to 60hp but would prefer to edge towards the higher end of that. Any Info appreciated, thanks in advance.

[kieran]

Hi Peter

Its a while since I had a boat and I am sure Jim and others will be far more knowledgeable and up to date, but 4 stroke is far more [/color] - DOH! did I say more, I meant LESS - economical. I recall Yamaha and Honda being the makes and offering the longest and best guarantees. If you are looking at a 4 stroke make sure it is not one of the early ones as they were plagued with problems, not surprising really. You didn't mention what type of hull you have on the boat, how far you plan to travel, what speed you want to do... the more info you offer, the more precise or specific the advice can be from the current boaters...

FWIW...

Last edited by kieran on Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am told its a double planing hull, I would like it to be able to do 25 -30 knots if possible in case we go mad and decide to stick it on a speed boat in the future! Distances....I dunno, something that would get me out to Tory and back on a nice day would be good. I am not overly concerned about fuel economy to be perfectly honest, anything someway reasonable will be considered if it ticks the appropriate boxes. I would like to buy new and as I mentioned I can pick up a 50hp 2 stroke johnson BNIB for 4500, I have also spotted a brand new Mariner 60 hp 4 stroke for around the 6000 mark also. Budget up to the 7k mark or so if poss.

[Accony]

Will 2 strokes be outlawed in the near future?? I think they are in the USA or if not soon will be.

4 strokes are more economical and also much quieter

Sadly they seem to cost more.

I'd go 4 stroke if only for the quietness factor.

Colin

Last edited by Accony on Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Missed the bit about Tohatsu.

A lot of "Main" outboard names are rebadged Tohatsu's.

Allegedly!!!

Colin

OK, I'm a bit lost now.... :? It would have been my opinion that a 4 stroke was quieter and more economical than a 2 stroke but not as powerful and heavier. Is that correct?

Does anyone have any opinion on the 2 stroke Johnson 50hp as its brand spankers and well within budget? What is the general opinion on Tohatsu outboards? Good, bad, ugly....?
[/quote]

hi,
I can only advise from my own experiance regarding outboard engines, so here goes.
Personally i have been using 4 strokes since they were introduced.
initially i used the hondas, and as someone rightly pointed out, they did have a few problems, but the service from honda to rectify the problems( all free) was exceptional.
I am currently using suzuki 4 strokes for the last 4 years, the only reason i switched from honda was because the susi's were lighter on the back of the boat.
They have been bullet proof, and i also have a friend who has a twin susi 50 set up for the last 6 years, hardly looks at them, just changes the oil, and he's not had a jot of a problem!
Currently , there is a better service set up for the hondas in ireland, whilst susi service agents are a bit like hens teeth at present , but that situation is improving, and would be a very good question to ask any dealer you purchase from.
Egines to avoid like the plauge , mercury,!!, or mariner 4 strokes, which is a mercury engine in disguise, I was briefly convinced to trya new one on a boat for a trial, and it went wrong on the second trip out , and the third , and the fourth etc, so it was removed within a week!!
The new e-tec engine is worth a look, its new technology but with a great three year no service required deal. intial reports on people using this engine sound very favourable, but still a little new as to know waht problems may show.
As for economy ( 4 stroke) v ( 2 stroke), well if you are doing more than 10 nms a trip a would advise 4 stroke, they are at least 30-40% cheaper to run, and if you do fish a lot the savings will soon match the difference in purchase price.
The only other thing i can add is, i take part in a number of small boat competions around ireland, and at these comps up to 50 boats can be taking part.
By far the most popular engines are the honda's, followed by susi's, so i leave you to read into that!
If you want anymore specific advice, pm me and i will try to help

Pete, have a look on here for new engines - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Bill-Higham-Ma ... idZ2QQtZkm

Was looking at the Tohatsu range there, they look OK, but I mailed Jim and asked for advice on engines and his advice was to look at Yams - I'd say that'd be sound advice !!

I'm looking at getting the summer out of my current Evinrude 50 VRO - then buying a new engine . Keep me posted as to any further advice you get.

Just bought a Minn Kota Riptide Saltwater aux on Monday - looks the business - electric/battery powered , so no need to worry about running out of fuel on the aux - I keep 2 batteries on board. Getting a run out on Sunday if I fix the Evinrude. Very excited !

No direct experience of them myself, but I've spoken with lads who reckon Tohatsu is worth a long careful look. Because they build the engines that others rebadge for themselves.

Bit like Skoda vs Volkswagen really..... :?

Spoke with a chap who deals in RIBs and various brands of engines in Cork today and have to say he was very helpful...more to the point he wasnt trying to push anything on me either. His recommendations were that if I didnt mind about noise and wasnt overly concerned about fuel economy (which I'm not) then a 2 stroke was the way to go.
His opinion was they were a lot simpler and more reliable than a 4 stroke engine and basically as long as they were looked after and the fuel was kept clean they should give very little trouble. His opinion was also that these days, there are no real "bad" new engines around.
As far as Mercs and Mariners were concerned, he reckoned that a lot of the bad press on them came from the huge amount of imported second hand models that had been thrashed over in the UK before arriving here. He explained that within the various brands there is a huge amount of crossovers in relation to the parts used so there was, in fairness, very little to choose between them if all I wanted was a bogstandard, reliable 2 stroke engine. Plenty of scope available within budget too. Quoted 6300 on a Yamaha 60hp, 5800 on a mariner/merc 60hp. Still considering the Johnson option at 4500 also.
Presuming that there is VAT involved on engines purchased in the North, and the fact I have a VAT number (and hoping there are no tax inspectors reading this...if you are Im only kidding...! :lol: ) I may concentrate my search up there.

Thanks a lot for the response lads, any further comments appreciated, its not a small purchase after all.

Ill second Screaming reels on the Suzukis, i have a 70hp 4s and its super :)

Was looking at the Tohatsu range there, they look OK, but I mailed Jim and asked for advice on engines and his advice was to look at Yams - I'd say that'd be sound advice !!

Was quoted approximately €3700 on a brand spankers 60hp 06 model 2 stroke Tohatsu inc delivery from Bill Highams, (Excludes VAT).

stole this from wsf "Tohatsu are the only manufacturer which warrants the engine for racing, that has to say something for them. Did you know Tohatsu is actually Nissan, for some reason they are not allowed to use their Nissan name in this country.

All the other manufacturers used to buy their small 4hp and 5hp engines from Tohatsu and put their own cowling and stickers on them at one time. As well as upping the price

They are rock solid no frills engines IMHO, the only downside is the lack of dealers for spares."
I bought a 50 from extreme marine ,2800pounds inc post and cables, very pleased with it, at that price it would take a long time to make up the difference between it and a 4 stroke price in fuel, much lighter on the transom and simpler to repair,
Steve

Engines are like cars. One mans food is another mans poison. We were always Yamaha people. We changed over to Mariner/Mercury on SKUA and would have to say that when the time comes for replacement we will go Mariner/Mercury again.

I’ve seen brand new Hondas give enough grief. I have been told horror stories about Suzuki electrics. I never had much time for Evinrude or Johnson. Said all that I know guys that would have nothing else other than their Honda, Mariner/Mercury or Suzuki. You see plenty of RNLI ribs with Evinrudes. I have heard nothing but good about Tohatsu. They are all over Kerry as O’sullivans are agents (still I think) A buddy of mine runs a Johnson “ficht” and swears by it. As I say outboards are like cars!

As for 2 or 4 stroke: 4 stroke are quieter (though modern 2’s are very quiet). 4’s are more fuel efficient. 4s weigh in heavier. There is a big difference between the cost of both. How often do you go out? I would think there is no point in buying a 4 stroke if you are not getting use out of it. You will buy a lot of petrol for the difference in price. People talk about less power from 4 stroke. This is technically incorrect as a 50hp engine is just that: a 50hp engine be it 2 or 4. True 4 used take longer to get a boat up to top speed but this has largely been eliminated by electronic fuel injection.

Not much help I know but that’s the way it is!!!!!

I took a quick look at the engines used at last years Cork Small Boats Festival. Of a fleet of 35 the breakdown was as follows:
2 stroke: 18
4 stroke: 15
Diesel: 2

Breakdown by Manufacturer:
Yamaha: 5
Honda: 4
Evenrude: 4
Suzuki: 3
Mariner/Merc:15
Johnson: 2
Inboard: 2

Have to run with Terry on this one , have a Suzuki 60 hp 4 stroke £4500.
Couple of times i,ve caught myself going to restart her when she was already running , soooo quiet .

Andy

A lot of what people say about outboards is tripe. Take it with a pinch of salt as many will vouch for what they themselves own not basing it on any actual reasoning. The truth is as any service engineer will tell you that most outboards are pretty much the same these days. In fact many parts inside them are EXACTLY the same and are interchangable. To go even a step further, many of the outboards on sale these days are built by several manufactures. for example Evinrude and Johnson are the same company as are Mariner and Mercury Chrysler and Force were the same and |Force engines are identical to Mercs and Mariners in every way (same engine different hood) Many of the smaller engines in the Johnson range are actually Suzuki supplied to them to expand their range as they are currently only manufacturing the bigger engines as far as i am aware. Johnson and Mercury use their two brands to market different horse powers. For example 2.5 hp, 4 and 6 might be Johnson while 3, 5 and 8 might be sold as evinrudes or Mariners as the case may be. Also Mariners are not sold in America at all. only Mercury.

To cut a long story short, They are all pretty much the same and it is only amarketing ploy used by the companies to get you to buy their engines. They seem to have a deal set up so that everyone gets a slice of the pie by supplying each other with various models missing from each others range thus cutting down manufacturing costs and allowing for the false image of supplying everything.

So far i have owned Johnson, mariner, Seagull, Yamaha and Chrysler two strokes. I now Have a Mercury four stroke and i would'nt vouch for any of them being better than another. The only exception i would make is for Johnson because they seem to be a little cheaper (must be another marketing ploy from Evinrude) If you doubt what i am telling you then ring Bill Hiaghm and ask him all about it. I confronted the Mercury guy at the boat show this year and he admitted what i say is true. I tried to get a Johnson with my new boat but could'nt as their was a deal between Mercury and and the boat manufacturer and the deal i negotiated with him stopped him selling me a Johnson. The downside of Johnson though is that they are white and show up their age more than the black engines.

Tohatsu are a new player and to be honest i know nothing about them. :?

A lot of what people say about outboards is tripe. Take it with a pinch of salt as many will vouch for what they themselves own not basing it on any actual reasoning. The truth is as any service engineer will tell you that most outboards are pretty much the same these days. In fact many parts inside them are EXACTLY the same and are interchangable. To go even a step further, many of the outboards on sale these days are built by several manufactures. for example Evinrude and Johnson are the same company as are Mariner and Mercury Chrysler and Force were the same and |Force engines are identical to Mercs and Mariners in every way (same engine different hood) Many of the smaller engines in the Johnson range are actually Suzuki supplied to them to expand their range as they are currently only manufacturing the bigger engines as far as i am aware. Johnson and Mercury use their two brands to market different horse powers. For example 2.5 hp, 4 and 6 might be Johnson while 3, 5 and 8 might be sold as evinrudes or Mariners as the case may be. Also Mariners are not sold in America at all. only Mercury.

To cut a long story short, They are all pretty much the same and it is only amarketing ploy used by the companies to get you to buy their engines. They seem to have a deal set up so that everyone gets a slice of the pie by supplying each other with various models missing from each others range thus cutting down manufacturing costs and allowing for the false image of supplying everything.

So far i have owned Johnson, mariner, Seagull, Yamaha and Chrysler two strokes. I now Have a Mercury four stroke and i would'nt vouch for any of them being better than another. The only exception i would make is for Johnson because they seem to be a little cheaper (must be another marketing ploy from Evinrude) If you doubt what i am telling you then ring Bill Hiaghm and ask him all about it. I confronted the Mercury guy at the boat show this year and he admitted what i say is true. I tried to get a Johnson with my new boat but could'nt as their was a deal between Mercury and and the boat manufacturer and the deal i negotiated with him stopped him selling me a Johnson. The downside of Johnson though is that they are white and show up their age more than the black engines.

Tohatsu are a new player and to be honest i know nothing about them. :?

Tohatsu are Nissan, I think. For som ereason they cant sell them under the Nissan name.

Another interesting thing is the different HPs from identical engines. The mercury 50 EFI is mechanically exactly the same as the 60, just with a different control box. I'm still unsure how they down-regulate the 60 to only give 50HP.

From what I've read, googling and searching other forums etc I am amazed at the huge crossover with manufacturers..!!! Tohatsu apparently manufacture all Merc/Mariner engines to 15hp, Its Nissan outboards that are made by Tohatsu also etc etc etc, I could go on but I'll be here all day! I have decided, taking into account price, the europe wide 2 year warranty, the fact there are 3 dealers close (reasonably) to me either in Cork or Donegal and the fact that I have yet to hear a bad word against them to go ahead and order a 60hp EPTOL Tohatsu at the end of the month from Bill Higham, who it has to be said, cannot be beaten on price. Many thanks for all your contributions and advice, much appreciated, I guess the simple facts are that there is v little difference between majority of engines and it is basically down to dealer support, warranty and price once you have decided what it is you want.

Thanks again lads and I look forward to reviewing the Tohatsu in the near future.

Pete, just wondering who/wheres the dealer in Donegal,
cheers Steve