Lobster Pots!

[Tanglerat]

jesus boys do you reckon some boys on this forum are a little in favour of commercial men instead of us anglers must be on the wrong web site

No harm in hearing all sides of a debate; it would be pretty boring if we all agreed with ourselves all the time on here! :D

Last edited by Tanglerat on Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Very true Tanglerat 8) , we could come up with all sorts of stats if each of us thought we were experts on a given topic.

The reason i gave my history on this was i would be shouted down for giving a point with no backing.

Why do I have to be anti commercial fisherman to be an angler.
Do we have anymore right to the sea than them.
I don't agree with most of the things been done by commercial fishermen and yes they are raping the sea, but I've also seen anglers doing things i don't agree with.

This a forum..i give my point of view nobody Else's nobody has to agree with me but I have an open mind and am willing to change my view if and when I'm given information to do so. change my mind!!!

No Scara I agree, everyone is entitled to their opinion on this and any subject, really its not up to me or anyone to change your mind but I guess if you had bad experiences like other people you may take a different view.

I would probably have different views if I had your background and your insight on the Sea from your years of experience. My basic opinion is what I said originally if something is well marked then it can be spotted and avoided but if not marked well or at all then really I feel the Lobster man is responsible for any damages or injuries caused. If we were to really get nasty you could apply certain Maritime laws and then the Lobster man not the Angler would be left with his family jewels blowing in the wind, so out of decency I feel the Lobster Man should put more floats out and possibly use orange or red rope instead of blue, what you think?

In any event, from this posting I think people will be more aware of these hazards and that's no harm if we achieved that much. People should also be more aware not to intentionally cut ropes or be malicious as these pots and ropes represent someone’s living.

Good suggestions above, in an ideal world I'm sure they'd be in practice already. There are a few flies in the ointment though.

First off, most nylon rope comes in blue or occasionally green. Neither look like much in the water and any colour of rope will bleach and accumulate weed or algae in the water which reduces it visibility & buoyancy. You don't usually have the luxury of a colour palette to choose from.

Secondly, the downside of bigger floats is that in a stong tide run the bigger buoy will allow the pots to drag, where a smaller float will submerge until the tide slackens. Commercial fishermen can't hang about each string of pots all day waiting for slack water.

I hate headlines and undersize floats with a passion myself, but if I run across one, well, my fault for not seeing it. It's my responsibility to guide the boat safely, regardless of the hazards the world puts in my way - same as driving a car.

Look at it this way, you run across the headline - not the other way round. It was there first. :lol:

Well that's a very nice way to think of it, but when your in a cabin when the wind is blowing hard and the sea is rough and its raining come back to me if you think its your fault for not seeing it even when only plodding along at say 5 knots. Its like a lot of things until you have a bad experience you are reasonable but when it actually happens peoples opinions are quickly changed. Also I would not be suggestion bigger floats. I would be thinking more along the lines of small movable floats on the headline if thats possible?

peter limerick- i hope to god none of the commercial guys i know around portnablagh ever meet you coming out with an opening comment like that-
you would deserve everything you get!!!

ever thought that sandman and scara might know what they are talking about or is it just us up in the north west.

also r mclean if it is a s**t day and you run over a reasonably marked rope that may well be 30ft on the surface if its low springs it IS your fault. Maybe if you are so worried or your eyesight is so bad you could contact your local potters to get gps numbers of leaders over reefs and open ground as trawlers do here so they do not tow through leaders.

dont know about the rest of you fellow anglers but is slagging necesary? phenwick mist get a grip you have made no points at all bar aimless comments - focus on your content and spelling before having a go at everyone! and robertmc I would suggest you simply reduce your speed in such areas and if it is possible get co-ordinates for these floating ropes as sandman said these ropes deteriorate and are under the surface so its no ONES fault if they dont see them and run into them, fair play to the debate though-all interesting reading!!

I think what Sandman said about ropes decaying and not always being "visible & buoyant" is what is always going to be the danger. If a rope is marginally underwater then I really don't see how it could be spotted easily particularly in a bad sea. But as Phenwick Mist quite insightfully pointed out our underwater vision is "so bad" that it would be the anglers fault if we snagged it. I will be straight into Spec Savers tomorrow to get my new telescopic underwater vision glasses.

Well I didn't think I would stir up so much with this post but thanks to everyone who made suggestions and who had fair points.

Thanks again, Rob.

i really believe that 70% of private boat owners do not have the skills,ability and common sense to be let out on a boat on there own. .

Hi Scara ,
Although I was having a one-sided moan there I do to some extent agree with you . For example it never occured to me that floating rope would be a common/normal thing rather than a one-off hazard which I'd be very unlucky to encounter . So you could say I didn't have the skill ( knowledge would be a better word ) for these waters .
However , I disagree with you over the sentiment that I should have the "common sense" to expect this . Sure common sense says watch out / be alert etc but you play a kind of probabilities game every time you drive anything . Common sense told ME that people would not intentionally leave a hazard of that kind so I'd do better to concentrate on avoiding the difficult to see drift net corks which were all over the place . Hence I went what turned out to be too close to the pot bouy ( best estimate still well over 30 ft away ). Common sense told YOU that I'd have a sort of intuitive knowledge of exceptions to my own rule , which I didn't .
So what's my point ? "Assumption" is a hazard in itself and implications of lack of common sense are highly emotive . This applies to both "sides" ( there we go again !) In practical terms the more dialogue like this the better .
Good site this , innit ? I've learned something anyway .
All the best
Nick

The most frightening question is : " What else don't I know that I don't know ?"

Sorry - that was me , Blowin . Where did "edit" go ?

Ok I've figured out the missing "edit" thing but just a bit too late - rather like the floating rope thing . Trouble was I ASSUMED the system had gone wrong so it must be Kieran's fault . Or if not his then one of his mate's . Not mine anyway !

Hi all

I have had a number of PMs about this thread so a little oil on the water...

As I have pointed out before (and doubtless will have to repeat again :wink: ) a lot of juniors use the site so please moderate your langauge. Simply inserting a @ or ! instead of the letter does not qualify as moderating your language. A ten year old can spell and read for heavens sake! I would also point out that you are personally responsible for your comments (lifeguard you might be interested in this) so if you libel anyone or a group, they will be entitled to take legal action against you - a byproduct of that would be that this site would be closed down. For good and ever, akin to what happened to some sites in the UK in 2003.

People should be able to express themselves and their emotions (that what the icons are there for!) without resorting to bad lanaguage. If you find you have to, then can I suggest that you leave the forum.

Bear in mind that it is very EASY to misinterpret the written word, in that you have no body language or tone of voice to help you interpret what someone has written... what you deem abusive might have been meant as a joke - no seriously, think about it, how many bad jokes are there!

As it happens I think this is a particularly good and informative thread. Now on the basis that potsmen and anglers are likely to be around for the next fifty years and that we'll have to live together and accommodate each other, the ropes and the hooks that get stuck in the rope (oh yeah did yez forget about them :wink: ) etc. will always be a contentious topic.

Bottom line, please watch the language and please respect other people's right to their own opinions... however ridiculous or whatever you feel the opinions may be... they have a right to express them in a democracy... so long as they do so without gratuitously offending other people.

Thanks

Been a victim of rope around the prop before.
Don't know a lot about pot fishing, but is it not possible to put a small back lead or two on the rope to sink it deep enough for boats to pass over?
Use backleading when waggler fishing and it works.
Would cut down on the acrimony between anglers and pot men.

Bill

when you are lifting pots you usually use a boat hook to pick up the leader close to the pot as on a crabber you are too high out of the water to grab the buoy by hand and the lead weight would get caught in the hauler winch. if you are shot for crabs over open ground with plenty of room to turn if you miss the buoy first time this would work better by putting drift net leads on say the first 20ft of line but crab leaders are usually fished with dan bouys and black flags which are fairly easy to spot.

This is slightly off the point but still close enough to mention. Another pet hate of mine is divers habits of putting buoys on wrecks. Very irritating this. Sure it is handy for them to hang over the wreck while the lads enjoy their dive but it creates the same tangling danger as that of the pots when fishermen try to set up drifts. This also is a rope that is attatched to a solid structure unlike a pot which can prove extreamely dangerous. in strong drifts it can often make fishing almost impossible. I believe this to be very dangerous behaviour :shock:

some enterprising soul inspired by this thread could solve everyone's problems by coming up some kind of cage/guard to fit onto a prop _specifically_ designed and tested to prevent the prop catching on floating ropes.

not that I have any knowledge of this mind, but reading this thread it struck me.

A lot of commercial vessels already have such a cage. In addition, there are cutters you can fit to the prop shaft of most boats. Outboards - never seen a cage that would fit (there's a business idea for some enterprising soul), although as you can usually easily enough get a rope out. Provided you have a nice sharp knife. A good tip is to catch the rope below your fouled prop and when finished cutting, tie the buoy back on.

I have not seen a cage for an outboard but it is a good idea, big factor though is it would effect the boats performance and reduce speed considerably, but maybe thats the idea too :lol: , Yes a good sharp knife cuts through rope but explain what someone with an inboard engine could do? In addition pulling up your engine in the middle of the sea is dangerous enough without trying to hold onto two pieces of rope and re-attach them, especially if one has tension on them from tidal flow. I appreciate that some of you are quite concerned about the lobster mans bread and butter and thats understandable but lets come up with a few ideas that will work for both parties and not ones that are aimed at simply saving the lobster man a few quid!

The best idea so far is this cage idea, and a good idea too is being armed with co-ords for potting areas!

you know those "weed guards" that they put on some flies and lures to stop the hook catching in weed? Perhaps something along the same principle - not even as complex as a cage which could affect prop performance - could be appled to outboards - some kind of a thin, reasonable flexible strip of metal that would be positioned in front of the prop and extend below it whereby if the motor struck a rope, the rope would just kind of glance off the metal and go safely under without catching.

From an outside point of view and just judging by the arguments on this thread it seems to me that the lobster men have good reason to do what they do, and the anglers have good reason to be annoyed at the problems it sometimes causes for them. Is there a more roundabout/creative answer to the issue - thinking outside the box, to use a horrible, horrible phrase?