Did you release that bass? - Annual bag limits

[teacher]

I don't think many would disagree that Bass stocks have declined and show no significant signs of recovery. However, those more in favour of catch-and-release feel that they are battling against what they perhaps perceive to be less responsible anglers. Regardless of the facts in any specific case, this is frequently leading to conflict. The conflict is more acute in the case of Bass than any other species on our coastlines.

I believe this conflict is arising for two reasons.

Firstly, the current regulations for anglers (specifically a bag limit of two fish over 40cm per day) allows for too many fish, of too small a size, to be taken. This leads to conflict because anglers feel the need to persuade other anglers to adhere to more reasonable bag limits. This is unfortunate because, for example, an angler who keeps two fish in a single session may return every other fish caught that season. However, other anglers will fear that he or she may be taking two fish in every session. Disagreement is the inevitable result.

Secondly, anglers have no confidence in the ability of the authorities to enforce even the existing regulations. Again, this means that some anglers feel the need to enforce the regulations themselves, inevitably leading to conflict.

If there was an annual bag limit (of, for example, 5 bass per angler per season, with a MLS of 45cm) then it is my belief that much of the current conflict could be avoided. Regardless of the practicalities of enforcing this, I believe such regulations would at least provide for better understanding and respect among anglers. As a community in agreement about reasonable conservation measures, we can then more effectively lobby for proper enforcement.

The grey area between what the current regulations permit and what represents a reasonable conservation policy must be removed.

--Jonathan

[stevecrow74]

If there was an annual bag limit (of, for example, 5 bass per angler per season, with a MLS of 45cm)

i do agree with you on alot of that but would be happyer to see a bag limit of one fish per month, which would only be 11 fish annually (not forgetting closed season)

and agree with MLS of 45cm(or even higher) to give the fish a good few seasons to spawn and rebuild the population....

but it boils down to common sence,i'm not really a bass angler because of my location, so i have to travel some distance to catch one..

but for those who have them at their doorstep to show respect for the fish and there stocks, so others can enjoy the pleasure of catching a bass...

and believe me it is a nice feeling to have landed a fish as beautiful as that..

[teacher]

i do agree with you on alot of that but would be happyer to see a bag limit of one fish per month, which would only be 11 fish annually (not forgetting closed season)

I originally put 10 in there but thought it was a bit high. I'm not a salmon angler, but don't the salmon regs specify an annual bag limit and also daily or monthly bag limits?

but it boils down to common sence,i'm not really a bass angler because of my location, so i have to travel some distance to catch one..

but for those who have them at their doorstep to show respect for the fish and there stocks, so others can enjoy the pleasure of catching a bass...

My argument is that disagreements, like those we've seen recently on the forum, arise because my common sense tells me I can keep 5 bass per year but I think your common sense tells you you can have bass for breakfast, dinner and tea (this is an example :D).

[Bradan]

i do agree with you on alot of that but would be happyer to see a bag limit of one fish per month, which would only be 11 fish annually (not forgetting closed season)

I originally put 10 in there but thought it was a bit high. I'm not a salmon angler, but don't the salmon regs specify an annual bag limit and also daily or monthly bag limits?

but it boils down to common sence,i'm not really a bass angler because of my location, so i have to travel some distance to catch one..

but for those who have them at their doorstep to show respect for the fish and there stocks, so others can enjoy the pleasure of catching a bass...

My argument is that disagreements, like those we've seen recently on the forum, arise because my common sense tells me I can keep 5 bass per year but I think your common sense tells you you can have bass for breakfast, dinner and tea (this is an example :D).

The salmon annual angler quota is 10 fish, reduced from 20 last year. The individual quota came about because the salmon is perceived as a national resource, not the right of any one sector (commercial drift/draft/angler). The commercial sectors were required to accept significant quota reductions, (way past time IMO), but (some) angling organisations were refusing to accept that they had to take any of the pain. Many anglers still do not accept that they should be subject to any limit and don't abide by the regulations.

If you look at bass I think (my personal opinion) it should be a similar system. The commercial sector has had to cease fishing for bass, and anglers are now subject to restrictions with MLS and daily limits. Whether this is enough is debatable. If you took someone like Cortaz, who seems to live in bass heaven, he could (not saying he does!!!) conceivably kill 2 fish a day a couple of hundred times a year from the sound of his catch reports. Fair play to him for putting the vast majority back, but someone else with the same angling skill could have a serious impact on bass stocks in a local area.
The salmon limits were arrived at by listening to scientific advice, and through consultation, then the minister just picked a figure anyway that had little to do with either. Same thing would happen with bass, and with scientific knowledge far more limited than that of salmon, there would be even less info to go on. My take on this is that there should be a limit, but don't ask me what it should be, cos the dept will pick a different figure anyway...... anything would be a step forward!

[petekd]

Nice idea and all that but how on earth could it possibly be monitored and policed? Its one thing accosting somebody with half a dozen fish on them but totally another when dealing with an allocation over a period of time.

[teacher]

i do agree with you on alot of that but would be happyer to see a bag limit of one fish per month, which would only be 11 fish annually (not forgetting closed season)

That could present a problem if you have a large family to feed :D

[teacher]

I wonder do people disagree with an annual bag limit because it can't be enforced, or because they don't want a limit placed on the number of fish they can catch.

In theory there is a current annual bag limit of 668.

[stevecrow74]

I wonder do people disagree with an annual bag limit because it can't be enforced, or because they don't want a limit placed on the number of fish they can catch.

In theory there is a current annual bag limit of 668.

and if someone was silly enought to go with that theory, that could conceivably wipe out a bass population in a large area... :evil:

and i'd hate to think of the numbers getting caught in nets and by anglers who dont abide by the rules.. they are the ones depriving a sustainable population....

[teacher]

and i'd hate to think of the numbers getting caught in nets and by anglers who dont abide by the rules.. they are the ones depriving a sustainable population....

That's why I think we need a more reasonable bag limit that represents a sensible conservation policy. If at least responsible anglers can agree on that, then I think we might avoid some of the arguments between ourselves and be in a better position to call for action against the law-breakers.

[Bradan]

Nice idea and all that but how on earth could it possibly be monitored and policed? Its one thing accosting somebody with half a dozen fish on them but totally another when dealing with an allocation over a period of time.

Do it the same as for salmon - bass carcass tags could be issued. All bass killed would have to be tagged immediately. Anyone in possession of an untagged bass would then be breaking the law. Its not a perfect system, nor is the salmon regulations, but it introduces some kind of regulation, and acts as a deterrent to those who would take more than their limit.
Remember, fisheries officers take a lot of flak and are under-resourced, so it is very difficult for them to enforce regulations, but the important thing is - poachers have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once.

[Donagh]

I believe BASS have a 10 fish per year limit and I'd be in favour of that. As said the only way to regulate this would be a salmon type license scheme. I'd be against a license to fish for bass but would have no problems with one that was needed to keep them which is the only way it could be enforced anyway. My only worry would be its a sea angling license through the back door.

Donagh

[teacher]

I'd be against a license to fish for bass but would have no problems with one that was needed to keep them which is the only way it could be enforced anyway. My only worry would be its a sea angling license through the back door.

I think I agree with that. One of the nice things about sea angling is how easily people can get into it, without the hassle of permits, licenses, etc.

A license to keep bass seems reasonable, as does a tagging scheme.

The exact figure is probably another day's debate. I'll meet you half way - you can keep 7.5 bass per year :D (Make sure you return the half bass alive :D)

[Donagh]

Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea. I do very little bass fishing and would be happy to catch 10 bass in a year. Most I'd ever keep is one a year.

Donagh

[x]

Carcass tags. Only way forward. And same as salmon and sea trout, tags can only be lawfully removed on processing. That way, any restaurant buying bass off poachers, if inspected, could be brought to book. Ought to put a dent in that particular black market.....

I think that would go a long way to making bass easier to police.

A daily limit of two keepers is fine - no change needed there.

I think that since the absolute minimum size that bass spawn at is 42cm, since we're right at their northern limit, we should have a MLS of 45cm.

While I don't want to deprive anglers of the right to keep fish, I'd rather see a 45cm limit at one end and 65cm at the other end - so the smaller fish get a chance to spawn and the older more productive fish stay to support stocks. A slot limit, in other words.

I think 5 tags is enough for many anglers but would be happy if more could be isssued, subject to you returning catch data and possibly scale samples from the first 5 etc. Say a maximum of 15 tags/angler/year.

If anyone thinks the above is a tad harsh, consider this: after years of so called protection, from those fishing legally and illegally, how come bass are scarce and largely restricted to the south coast? Immune to global warming? Don't like the accent up north? No, the existing system of protection here simply doesn't work. It is a total failure and needs a complete rethink now.

[coaster]

Carcass tags. Only way forward. And same as salmon and sea trout, tags can only be lawfully removed on processing. That way, any restaurant buying bass off poachers, if inspected, could be brought to book. Ought to put a dent in that particular black market.....

I think that would go a long way to making bass easier to police.

I Have to agree that this (IMO) is the best way forward. If bass have to be tagged until processing it would also free up some resources. Instead of chasing the poachers, regular checks on hotels, restaurants, fish markets,etc.
Thus eliminating the market for illegally caught bass.

While I don't want to deprive anglers of the right to keep fish, I'd rather see a 45cm limit at one end and 65cm at the other end - so the smaller fish get a chance to spawn and the older more productive fish stay to support stocks. A slot limit, in other words.

Again I would have no problem with this. I do keep the odd bass for the table and the smaller end of this "slot" makes for much better eating.
Only question is that people who want to claim for a specimen, do you have to produce a carcass or will photos and scale sample do?

[Bradan]

Only question is that people who want to claim for a specimen, do you have to produce a carcass or will photos and scale sample do?

Look at the new byelaw for pike - previously you could kill one pike per day up to 3kgs or one over 20lbs (specimen weight) to facilitate specimen claims.
The new byelaw allows anglers to kill one pike up to 50cms, with no allowance for killing of specimen fish.

Basically, 95% of specimen claims for pike in the last cpl of years were fish that were released. Most pike specimen hunters now carry their own certified scales and unhooking mat etc, so they can weigh, photograph and release and still get a specimen award.
I'm sure if any bass anglers want to target specimens and are serious about catch-and-release they would do the same.

[coaster]

That would be the way to go Bradan but what I want to know is do you still have to produce a carcass for bass to make a claim

[MAC]

Carcass tags. Only way forward. And same as salmon and sea trout, tags can only be lawfully removed on processing. That way, any restaurant buying bass off poachers, if inspected, could be brought to book. Ought to put a dent in that particular black market.....

I agree that carcass tag would help with the black market sale of Bass, but the only way to defeit this is bodys on the ground checking our seas and the resources just aren't there. Also, there is a large amount of admin work with this system. Currently a national Salmon licence is €65 and €30 for a province if I remember correctly.

Would Bass anglers be willing to pay this charge :?: Given the amount of policing that our seas and estuarys get at the moment in comparison to Salmon I would NOT pay this charge for a simple admin fee and to be posted a few tags a year. Without the charge going into proper protection of the species all this Annual bag limit through tags would achieve is to remove people from the sport.

A daily limit of two keepers is fine - no change needed there.

I agree with the current daily limit like yourself Pat. I'm not so keen on a such a low annual limit. Personally I only take a few Bass a year but I think that given that the species is not endangered and a lot of work agains't poaching would see most parts of the counrty back to their best in a few years I think an annual limit a bit too severe. I think that if we made serious inroads agains't poaching and set a MLS of 45cm, Bass would prosper.

Kev

[Bradan]

That would be the way to go Bradan but what I want to know is do you still have to produce a carcass for bass to make a claim

Short answer is no. The carcass needs to be submitted for species where a similar species or hybrid is also found, e.g. mackerel/scad, flounder/dab/megrim, gurnards, etc. but not for bass.