Return that fish

Often the subject comes up as to whether sea anglers should keep the fish they catch or return them alive and the ensuing debate can become quite heated so what lies behind this argument that is fundamental to Recreational Sea Angling?.

Legally, once anyone catches a fish, by whatever method, that has been legally taken (ie is above the minimum size limit etc), it’s theirs to do with as they please.

And each angler must draw their own line upon where they stand.

If I want to feed my runner bean trench with bass of all sizes, to ensure a good bean crop, who has the right to intervene?

If I want the pleasure of catching mackerel, literally in their hundreds and feed them to the gulls or leave them to rot, that’s down to me.

Right?

I doubt that many would agree that I’d drawn my line in the right place, but ultimately that’s my choice. Isn’t it?

Things get more complicated the further up that line as to what more people would find reasonable.

A young kid catches a 6lb mullet, knocks it on the head, takes it home to show mum, then it goes in the bin.

Is that right, given the excitement that the kid has had from such a remarkable capture, and the need to share that with the person he loves and respects?

After all, it's just another dead fish.

Right?

OK, what about an older teenager with a potential record breaker?

Is it right to kill a fish, just because there might be a potential club record claim, a gleaming cup at the AGM, or a new reel in it?

Now what about someone who takes a large sting-ray, so that he can get his mate to photograph it in his backyard, and send the picture to an angling magazine or paper?

Should the paper even publish such pictures, encouraging others to do the same?

What about the competition angler, where that dead doggie might just swing a £300 prize?


But it’s when we talk about taking fish for the pot that things get really interesting.

A nice plaice, a couple of mackerel, a 3lb codling.

I doubt that many would complain.

Yet when a 13lb bass, or a 7lb mullet is knocked on the head, it brings on the bristles.

Why?

What makes it OK for an angler to kill and eat one fish for the pot, with no one batting an eyelid, yet doing the same with another invites a torrent of condemnation?

The answer is complex, and there is nowhere to draw a hard and fast line.

First why do we go angling?

For the bloke that lives by the sea, with a rod made up in the garage ready to go and whenever the fancy of a fish supper takes him, he can readily claim that it’s just a cheap and easy way of providing fish for the table, with perhaps a little bit of sport thrown in.

Then there’s the guy who has to arrange to collect expensive bait, get up early, make a long journey. Clearly he's after something other than just some cheap fish for the table. It would be far cheaper and convenient for him to call at the local Tesco’s wet fish counter if all he was after was a piece of fish for the plate.

Yet his motivation might just be a day out with a mate, a few hours escape from a boring or stressful job, with the chance of a tasty bit of fresh fish thrown in.

And then there’s the bloke who takes his fishing seriously, he might not even like eating fish, but knows almost all there is to know about his quarry, where to find it and how to catch it, and the more difficult the challenge the better.

His satisfaction comes totally from landing a specimen of shining silver and releasing it back to the sea to be found and fought again.

Each person will have their own view about where they should draw their own line, and perhaps why others should be persuaded to bring their line closer to their own.

So, given that many anglers are primarily concerned with the sport of catching, rather than simply obtaining fish for the table, why are their different attitudes for different species, and often for different sized fish within those species?

(Many people don’t mind the odd one or two smaller bass being taken, but would baulk at the killing of a specimen fish).

Part of the answer lies in a number of factors; the availability of a species, its sporting value, its ecological status.

Where fish are reasonably plentiful and good eating (ie mackerel), no one much objects to taking a reasonable number for the pot.

Where fish are slow growing, and/or specimen fish are rare, then those with a sporting interest will object strongly to others damaging their sporting potential, simply for a couple of extra fish fillets, given the amount of time, effort and cash that they themselves are investing in targeting those specimens, particularly if they are not particularly good eating.


Let’s take mullet.

A mullet in UK waters will take some ten years to reach spawning age at 3lbs, a 7lb mullet may be around 20 years old. There is evidence that the same fish come to the same locations throughout their life.

A mullet angler, carefully returning their catch, hoping to meet the 7lber that they photographed and returned last year, some time in the future at 8 – 9 – 10lb is maybe going to feel anger, rising from bitter disappointment when he learns that 7lber has been eaten by another angler and his cat (it didn’t taste of much!) who has no idea of the value of such a specimen to a dedicated mullet angler.


Similarly with bass, it’s another slow growing, late maturing, localised species.
(Living around 25 years, potential to grow to over 20lbs, spawning about 15 times)

Kill a good specimen, that may have been caught and returned several times by more ‘sporting’ anglers, and no one is going to ever have the chance of catching that good-sized fish again, or catching it when it’s even bigger.


So, what makes a fish more valuable to some anglers than other species isn’t simply arbitrary, it is rooted in the approach that each of us has to our sport, and the knowledge that we have of the species we like to catch and their vulnerability, not just the species, but the locations that we fish too.

For my part, I have some mackerel in the freezer (I have plenty of home-made compost for the bean trenches), I will return all mullet that I catch and try to educate others to do the same.

When I was younger I killed a number of fish that, now that I’m older, more knowledgeable and wiser, I deeply regret. I can’t turn the clock back for myself but I hope that I can help others to avoid the pangs of conscience that grow deeper with the years.

Whilst I've since deeply regretted killing some fish, I’ve never, ever regretted returning a fish, and I've attained immense pleasure and satisfaction in watching them swim away, returning from a trip much happier than I feel that I would have been with some fillets in the freezer bag.

In summary, it’s up to each of us to draw (and review) our own line. And perhaps to provide guidance on where (and more importantly why) others should consider drawing theirs.

Peer pressure is powerful, and has a part to play. But persuasion and reason are far more effective tools than confrontational condemnation. That only serves to harden attitudes and deepen the divide.

Leon Roskilly SACN


Andy Elliott

I've stop reading this post half way down because I feel Andy has lost the plot. He should fill up the tank in his car and drive around the commercial fishing ports on this island and see the amount of dead fish left around the decks and in the cod ends of trawlers. I have often gone on board trawlers and released plenty of dogfish which were still alive and have taken home other species for the table. It is my opinion that one 30 metre trawler will kill more under size fish in one month than all the size able fish I will kill in a life time. I will eat fish up to three times a week and have giving it to the lads in my local. A lot of these guys are now eating fish, something they never done before. If you want to save the fish stocks go after the commercial boats because the majority of anglers do care about their sport.

When I was younger I killed a number of fish that, now that I’m older, more knowledgeable and wiser, I deeply regret. I can’t turn the clock back for myself but I hope that I can help others to avoid the pangs of conscience that grow deeper with the years.

Leon Roskilly SACN


Andy Elliott

This is something I have also been guilty of and somehow I don't think me and Leon are the only ones.But regret shows change and although I have seen my old self a few times through this post the change I see as I have matured is positive.
I now try to teach my friends and family (of the angling persuasion)to
respect and return most if not all that they catch.
I can see where Donal is coming from but think if we all do a little as anglers it can only help towards the future of our sport.

Jonny

Donal,

I agree with all you say apart from Andy having lost the plot, if anglers are ever to have a voice on conservation issues surely they must lead by example, otherwise as soon as you preach to the likes of the commercial fishermen (who, like you say kill on mass) they will only point the finger back at you, will they not?

I'm probably a bit older than you, 15 years ago I remember some of the older guy saying how bad the fishing was and that 15 years ago it was good, here I am 15 years on and cant believe the fish stocks around our shores is this bad. God only knows how bad it will be in another 15yrs time if something isn't done to try and save it today.

As far as Andy goes...right or wrong, he is doing something, I think if people want to knock him or other like him, then do it in a more positive way, by putting forward better suggestions on directions of how conservation should be started instead of just being negative.

Not looking to offend anyone, just stating my 2 bobs worth into the pot.

Tom.

I'm with Tom on this one. I'm old enough to have seen the decline myself and can see where we're heading.

I wish when I was younger, somebody had told me to practice a little restraint in my fishing. Hell, I probably wouldn't have listened. But with hindsight I wish I had people at least trying to tell me.

I can't now put back all the fish I killed needlessly as an angler or when I worked the boats. But I may be able to make a little restitution by trying to inform people through SACN etc. As far as fishing goes, my karma account is still well in the red.

Andy might be the more militant face of SACN here, while I might be considered the more moderate one. But we sing from exactly the same hymn sheet....

Andy might be the more militant face of SACN here, while I might be considered the more moderate one. But we sing from exactly the same hymn sheet.... Quote from sandman
I agree totally with what you guys are trying to do ,but sometimes extremists do more harm than good ,all they do is divide people with the same interests .

I've stop reading this post half way down because I feel Andy has lost the plot. .

Funny you should say that, a lot of people I know think the same, personally I blame the 80's and 90's ... but that doesnt make me a bad person now does it ?

Donal,

I agree with all you say apart from Andy having lost the plot

Nah ..he's right I have , but it isnt a recent thing

Andy might be the more militant face of SACN here,.

Youre only saying that because im from Belfast, Look the furry faces were put away years ago, I decomissioned my che guevara poster, took down my tie dyes and tibetan bells. I no longer partake in any form of consciousness expansion. ok ? ...just wanted to get that bit straight :D

I agree totally with what you guys are trying to do ,but sometimes extremists do more harm than good ,all they do is divide people with the same interests .

So then Ronald what is the way forward ?
Am I too much, because I speak my mind ?
If you want me to go... leave the site just say the word, Hell I've tons of things I could be doing instead of posting on here. I've my own buissness to run, the Ulster Casting Club, Admin BAI and SACN online.
Loads of things to be getting on with. Maybe you could take up the post, try and get the message across ? it does take up a lot of your time though, doesnt leave much time for fishing unfortunatley :(
But hey your welcome to it ...go ahead kid fill yer boots

Andy Elliott

The reason I've steered away from SACN has been what I've seen on this forum Thats the reason I haven't filled in the questionnaire and will not join your organization even though I agree we need more commercial controls. And andy I can't stand your abrasive attitude to forum members who nothing but polite and helpful.

Donagh

The reason I've steered away from SACN has been what I've seen on this forum Thats the reason I haven't filled in the questionnaire and will not join your organization even though I agree we need more commercial controls. And andy I can't stand your abrasive attitude to forum members who nothing but polite and helpful.

Donagh

Sorry you feel that way Donagh

Andy Elliott

Donagh,

Someone once said "all it takes for evil to succeed, is for good men to do nothing" on that scenario alone its my opinion that all anglers should at least fill the questionnaire in. don't you think.

Tom.

maybe it should be the commercial guys that are targeted ,their the ones doing the real damage to fish stocks ,you ever seen the amount of fish wastes when these guys have when fishing prawns .
Maybe the conservation end from anglers should steer towards issues such as litter on angling spots, organised clean ups which you could tie in with the media ,at least then anglers might get some good press and some more support from joe public ,even getting support from tackle manfactures with fish id cards given away with starter kits ,so at least kids get an interest in different species not just mackerel bashing .
I know your working hard behind the scenes andy ,thats to be commended ,but the big hammer approach doesn't always get the job done ,sometimes the more someone pushes the harder things are to move .

i filled in the questionaire, but that post is way too long to just sit down and go through... i only read the first three paragraphs and glanced through the rest....

the way i see it is if your going to eat fish, isnt it better to go out and catch it than go to the supermarket which feeds the commercial side of fishing..

i only want one fish and i get one fish.. not i want one fish and i get one out of however many tonnes of fish that have been scooped up in a single blow..

Ok I've filled in the form and would encourage others to do so. Sorry if I've been a bit harsh myself but I stand by my views.

Donagh

Way I see it is this....I fish from shore, I catch some of the fish which the trawlers can't catch because they're in rocky/shallow areas. If shore anglers were to kill all they catch then eventually those shore caught fish will decline in numbers, there will be little to take their place as the trawlers would have raped the seas anyway, leaving us with what??
If you take fish for the table I see no problem you would be buying fish from the chippy/fishmongers anyway.
But killing fish for trophies is not something which I would do or like to see done BUT every one to their own, I certainly wouldn't try and push my views onto someone else, they have a right to kill fish just as I have a right to return them.
Lets enjoy our fishing :)

id be knocking around on bulldugs opinions here - take if your going to eat one - throw back otherwise

no kill for trophies

Donagh wrote:

And andy I can't stand your abrasive attitude

I hear he's thinking of changing his username to 'sandpaperman' :lol:

talking about small fish - has anyone else seen the lads from eastern european countries take undersized fish?

I have been fishing off Lacken pier in Mayo for a nice dinner and while I kept throwing back small Pollock half a dozen of Polish kept killing half-pounders.

I'm German myself but I think it's sad to see how immigrants destroy the envrionment of their host countries!

Patrick...

if you do any search on the site, this has been well covered - same everywhere in the country - everyfish is a keeper

terrible stuff and they know they are not breaking the law

2 oz blenny is a keeper :roll:

talking about small fish - has anyone else seen the lads from eastern european countries take undersized fish?

I have been fishing off Lacken pier in Mayo for a nice dinner and while I kept throwing back small Pollock half a dozen of Polish kept killing half-pounders.

I'm German myself but I think it's sad to see how immigrants destroy the envrionment of their host countries!

Patrick...

just out of curiosity, are you from the west or east of germany?

speaking personally as a parasite immigrant myself, sucking the life out of a foreign host (in this case spain), if i catch a fish in the waters here i might keep it as long as it's over the minimum size. but don't be fooled, some locals will take anything regardless of size if it's fit for the pot (and most things do seem to be).

as for the environment, host countries seem to be doing a very good job of destroying themselves! think of almost any western european country, and see how eu openness spreads to the east, first as a property bubble...

immigrants aren't responsible for barren seas, climate chaos etc. in the same way they're not responsible for loss of local jobs etc. despite what the news media twats have to say about the matter.
:wink: :D
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talking about small fish - has anyone else seen the lads from eastern european countries take undersized fish?

I have been fishing off Lacken pier in Mayo for a nice dinner and while I kept throwing back small Pollock half a dozen of Polish kept killing half-pounders.

I'm German myself but I think it's sad to see how immigrants destroy the envrionment of their host countries!

Patrick...

just out of curiosity, are you from the west or east of germany?

speaking personally as a parasite immigrant myself, sucking the life out of a foreign host (in this case spain), if i catch a fish in the waters here i might keep it as long as it's over the minimum size. but don't be fooled, some locals will take anything regardless of size if it's fit for the pot (and most things do seem to be).

as for the environment, host countries seem to be doing a very good job of destroying themselves! think of almost any western european country, and see how eu openness spreads to the east, first as a property bubble...

immigrants aren't responsible for barren seas, climate chaos etc. in the same way they're not responsible for loss of local jobs etc. despite what the news media twats have to say about the matter.
:wink: :D
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