Photographs and Catch & Release

[teacher]

I'm probably way out of line suggesting this, and it's really an issue for the Admins and/or committee. What would peoples opinion of a policy that only allows photographs of released fish to be posted?

I'm not arguing against keeping a sensible number of fish for the pot, if people want to do that. (I keep fish occasionally myself "for personal use", although haven't kept a bass for about three years.) Perhaps you could think of it this way: one of the prices of keeping a fish is that you don't get to post photographs of it.

Any thoughts?

[x]

I see where you're coming from. Personally, I don't like the way a lot of mags have pages of pics of dead fish, but that appears to be what the mags think drives interest - pictures. I suppose they can only print what's submitted to them.

I think we're all proud of our catches and if we photograph them, we'd like to be able to share them online, whether we eat them or not.

Just my 2c worth, but I don't think it'd be a good idea to impose a ban on posting a pic of any fish you didn't release. Images are a powerful attractor to web sites such as this and to limit that would probably not help the site.

But as I say, this is my opinion. A poll of users might be in order.....

[Andy Elliott]

I Agree

My main reason for not renewing my subscription to Sea Angler, Total Sea Fishing and Boat Angler is that they continue to publish photos of dead fish. In this day and age where catch and release is the only way forward. Photos of dead fish do nothing to promote this
The Bass Anglers Sportsfish Society do not allow photos of dead bass on their website


Photos of "Anglers " posing with dead fish sickens me to the bone . Most people here will remember my outburst at Cortaz's personal gallery, My views on that still stand,



Andy Elliott

[Donagh]

Every one has a right to take fish for the the table. If someone wants to put up a picture of dead fish they are going to eat I've no problem with that. Neither do I have any problem with killing the odd fish to get a specimen claim if a photogragh won't suffice. I don't want this forum to go the way of some of the English ones where guys get hammered for saying they take a few fish home. While I release most fish except for mackerel and some whiting kept for bait I think its out right rude to ask every poster whether they released the fish or not. As long as keeping fish is in sensible proportions unlike the guys who fill bags of bass down in tarbert or as I heard last year a so called angler bringing a shore caught tope from beal home to feed the greyhounds.

Donagh

[teacher]

I Agree
Most people here will remember my outburst at Cortaz's personal gallery, My views on that still stand,

I not sure we should revisit photos that were posted in the past. I have some photos of bass myself that I'm not particularly proud of (although they're pretty old, and not on the web). In fariness to cortaz, having chatted and fished with him, he has done done a lot for bass conservation, particularly over the last six months.

I'm suggesting the change in policy as a positive way of promoting catch and release.

[teacher]

Every one has a right to take fish for the the table.

Hi Donagh,

I'm not arguing for 100% catch and release. Everyone can make their own decision about what they keep and what they release, within the law. I keep occasional fish myself (not bass, but that's a personal choice).

I'm simply suggesting one way of promoting catch and release.

[Donagh]

And I'm saying I'm totally against it for the reasons I've stated. If a photo came up of a box load of dead ray I'd be the first in to complain but there is nothing wrong with pictures of a dead fish as long as the fish will be used for some purpose after the phtoto is taken. By banning such photos the forum is saying it is. Its political correctness gone over board. As member of the the forum for the last 3 years I thought it was meant to be inclusive of all reasonable sea angling practices. Maybe I'm wrong.

Donagh

[teacher]

As member of the the forum for the last 3 years I thought it was meant to be inclusive of all reasonable sea angling practices. Maybe I'm wrong.

Original post wasn't intended to offend anyone. Apologies if it has.

[Andy Elliott]

This being a democracy.. everyone is entitled to thier own opinions and I have stated mine.
Different people have different opinions, doesnt make them bad people im my books.



Andy Elliott

[Donagh]

No offence taken and I hope none on your side. We're just stating points of view.

Donagh

[x]

Now this is a reasonable and reasoned debate. I think the more views we see expressed here, the better.

Just for the record I think most of us, whether we consider conservation or not as an issue, feel that as anglers we have a right to keep the odd one for the pot. I know it's my view. My personal take on retaining fish will be coloured by how scarce they are as a species, their size, the time of year and so forth. Just basic commom sense.

Donagh's point about pictures of dead fish for the table is an interesting one.

A way of looking at it might be that we could at least see that people who were keeping a feed were not taking the wrong size of fish, or perhaps keeping ones that were caught in an area where that species is rare (and probably should have been put back, if possible). If so, perhaps we could educate them, rather than condemn them?

An alternative viewpoint might be from that of an animal rights activist. There'd be war if a gun club's website put up pics of some lad with a shotgun and a dead bunny, even if he had taken it for the table.

I guess how any individual sees it is up to them.

I do differ on the issue of keeping fish to claim records or other accolades. Surely in this age of digital scales, cameras and so on, there is a better way to claim a record than to have to present a carcass? I know some people are keen species and specimen hunters; some even aspire to claiming a record. There is nothing wrong with that in my book - but I do feel that having to kill the cream of the crop, as it were, to claim a record is wrong. I'd rather be forgotten as the guy who released a potential record breaker than remembered as someone who killed the best specimen in years. What I'm saying here, in a nutshell is, it's the system that's at fault, not anglers who choose to pursue records etc.

I think it's high time someone drew up some guidelines on photographing fish with a view to species identification. It'd probably take a marine biologist and a decent photographer a couple of evenings to put something together.

Getting it accepted at the top might be a tad more difficult and drawn out. But I think it'd be worth the effort.

[Cooke]

This is my opinion on the matter - there are plenty of practical, selfish and logical reasons why anglers should practice catch and release and I would support all of them as a general rule.

However, other than a species being endangered, there is no logic in saying that the life of a fish is worth more than the life of a peeler crab or a worm. You can't have one without the other.

Re photos - I am pursuing this with the specimen committee in relation to mullet.

I would suggest a close up of the head of the fish showing the papillae and the pectoral fin and one of the underside of the head showing the jugular interspace. A trophy shot should capture the dorsal fin positions in relation to each other. 3 quick photos and the fish can be returned.

[x]

Would scale samples be of any additional benefit?

[DAMIEN]

[img]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/irish_mad/150720060422.jpg[/img] just random pics of me from my cam taught id throw em up noting special

[img]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/irish_mad/15072006036.jpg[/img]

[corbyeire]

bit off topic there damo???

anyway i think the important thing here is information - gettting a handle on how many fish are being taken for the table - how many people practice catch and release

when there are more figures then a better commentary could be made about the whole thing

as ive said before i take the odd one for the dinner but so far thats only 3 macks this year...

99.99% of the time it goes back

as for not showing photos of dead fish - think its a bit pernickity - is it better not to know whats being killed etc.

[John D]

I'd be up for the new rule.

John D.

[jd]

I wouldn't be in favour of this. While I rarely keep a fish for a pot, I think you run the danger of alienating people if you are too puritanical or fundamentalist on this issue.
jd

[kieran]

Hi

Just my own tuppence worth.

This site is about inclusion, about drawing people in and together. We all appreciate the need for conservation including C&R but you can sell this the wrong way very easily and with the best of intentions.

The right way to sell to Irish people is softly, point out the benefits of C&R and let them come to their own (inevitable) conclusion.

Anything that would not encourage someone to join the forums or someone to leave (mea culpa in the past) should not be a runner.

FWIW...

[Rockhopper]

Well, my slant for what its worth is this...

Catch and release suits some but not everyone, yet we are still called anglers, I've no real problem with that, as it happens I cant remember the last time I kept a fish for the table. I do eat fish very often though, so my table has still robbed the ocean of some of its stock, and its the stocks as I see it that's the problem.

Some 30 years ago trawler fishermen warned what would happen if something wasn't done in the waters around the British Isles and Ireland, this was when the factory ships we dredging the oceans of everything that they could find. Plenty air time was given to then from the media as I recall, some politicians gave them some backing too. 30 years on and still nothing has really been done, the trawler-men were an industry, they didn't listen to them, its my opinion they wont listen to us either, not as we are now anyway. I am not saying we should throw the towel in and surrender the issues we all have, far from it, but I do feel its not as black and white as some people think.

One very big fear I have is the way some on this forum think the Green Party may help in our fight, not me mate....it was the Green Party in Germany who wanted to ban angling all together, as it stands the restrictions in Germany prevent angling as a sport (I don't want to rant on about Germany though) but be careful. What I do feel is important is that as anglers who like to catch fish either as match-men or for fun is that we don't abuse what should be our God given right.

I don't think our problems can be solved overnight, but it would be a good start if our governments could get there act together and set some kind of slot restrictions in place and daily limits of the more endangered species, with hefty fines for those who abuse such laws, it worked in Florida, there is nothing stopping it working over here, even if they end up charging a license fee ( this opens up a whole other can or worms I know) to pay for such officers to police such laws.

The healthy thing here is that its getting talked about, and from that some solutions should show there head sooner or later. As anglers if we are divided we are weaker, we all know what that will do.

Who do we know among our families, workmates or friends that dont fish but still feel as stong about the issues we debate here, we may get a surprise if we ask, who knows we may be out on our own or we may be able to make our ranks 10 times bigger.

Tom.

[BigPhil]

ok, i do unfortunately have photos of me with fish that i have killed, years ago mind you.
if you kill it whats the need really for a photo unless its specimen or something.... even at that i dont kill them now. id rather go with out a speciman badge than kill a fish needlessly.

to be honest i think that the site should not post photos of dead fish, at the end of the day what is the point of preaching catch and release through competitions etc if you cant back it up 100% by stamping out the needless killing of fish.
a fish or so for the table ok......but if you post photos of dead fish then it only encourages those anglers who know no better to also do it for a few trophy shots or whatever...