Photographs and Catch & Release

[jd]

One very big fear I have is the way some on this forum think the Green Party may help in our fight, not me mate....it was the Green Party in Germany who wanted to ban angling all together, as it stands the restrictions in Germany prevent angling as a sport (I don't want to rant on about Germany though) but be careful.

I'd agree to be careful here, not all of the Green Party would be supportive of Angling.
jd

[x]

I don't support parties, I support politicians and policies which suit my interests, of which angling is one. I think in the present political climate, the Green Party have thus far shown a willingness to talk with anglers and take up issues raised by them. I also think they have a better handle on the overall picture of the problems facing angling today. If you read the whole marine policy document, not just the bit below, I think you'll find that they are talking sense and represent a better choice than the alternatives. While I can understand the reluctance of some to support a 'green' party, I think it would be a mistake to imagine that all 'green' parties everywhere are exactly the same.

I would encourage anyone with an interest in the future of angling to take the time to read a few policy statements from the various parties out there and make up your own minds.

I note from reading through the survey results that it is an almost unanimous verdict that angling needs more political representation and that anglers' voting choice will be biased towards policies which favour angling. I think the next logical step in that process is for concerned anglers to familiarise themselves with the policies of the various parties. IF in doubt, exercise your democratic right to ask for an explanation of any policy element you are unclear on.

I am fairly sure already where and why my next vote will be going.

Worth a read.....

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/policies/ma ... e_policy#7

7.0 Aquatic Leisure and Conservation

Urgent steps are required to restore Ireland's tarnished "clean, green" image. The significant deterioration in water quality, from eutrophication caused by excessive agricultural run-off, afforestation, overgrazing, sewage pollution and faulty septic tanks needs to be tackled by a Task Force with adequate powers. Nutrient management plans are needed for vulnerable catchment areas, especially as many farmers are not in the Rural Environmental Protection Scheme (operation of the REPS needs to be tightened up also) but proper support for farmers in this transition phase from intensive production to a more ecologically sensitive type of farming is absolutely vital and is sadly deficient at present.

Angling, both freshwater and marine, could well become the most significant part of the Irish tourist industry, if water quality is safeguarded and marine conservation measures put in place, as there is a huge demand for this type of aquatic leisure pursuit.
Incentives should be put in place to widen access to sailing and other water-sports (in Sweden there is one boat per 4 citizens compared to one boat to 213 in Ireland), as it has been shown in other countries that these activities are an excellent antidote to the aimlessness and alienation of disadvantaged youth and can help them significantly in other fields. Zonation of our water resources will be needed to protect the more vulnerable and ecologically interesting areas for conservation and low-key ecotourism while developing other areas for intensive recreation.

[Andy Elliott]

The title of this thread is " Photographs and Catch & Release"
Teacher started the thread with this

I'm probably way out of line suggesting this, and it's really an issue for the Admins and/or committee. What would peoples opinion of a policy that only allows photographs of released fish to be posted?

I'm not arguing against keeping a sensible number of fish for the pot, if people want to do that. (I keep fish occasionally myself "for personal use", although haven't kept a bass for about three years.) Perhaps you could think of it this way: one of the prices of keeping a fish is that you don't get to post photographs of it.

Any thoughts?

Plenty of thoughts have been posted, A few good points have been raised
However to be honest I think the majority of "Anglers " on this site anyway dont give a damn about conservation.
Why ?
I base these assumptions on the website statisitcs. The results from the survey are prety clear cut, however at an estimate 1 in 10 of the Anglers on this site have taken the time to fill out the survey, and we are very gratefull for it. my question is this are the other 9/10 happy for the 1/10 to decide the future of thier sport for them, or do they think the SACN and its efforts are a load of bollox.?

As I have stated earlier in the thread I have not renewed subscriptions to any of the three angling magazines.. Sea Angler , Total Sea Fishing and Boat angler, because they continue to publish images of dead fish. They should im my opinion lead by example. Everytime I log in here I see that picture in the top right of my screen, which doesnt do this site any favours ..again in my opinion.

Andy Elliott

[corbyeire]

simple fact of the matter is that 9/10 dont care or are happy for the 1/10 to decide for them

dont think anyone thinks SACN is a load of bull - just think "well there is SACN to take care of the problem"

as for the dead fish - having the photos as evidence of the catches and kills is better than not knowing the amount killed

then over time change the attitude

as mentioned also above - alienation - better to raise awareness softly - than hammering home a green agenda - whatever that means to so many different people

[Ronald]

seen some boat angling web site with same sort of thing dead ling and boxes of cod in the gallery ,doesn't really put across a good image for boat or shore anglers .

[corbyeire]

im not saying i dont agree with the image side of it - need to do it slowly and discourage the kill

[Ronald]

At the end of the day 99% of anglers keep fish ,the other 1% prob cant catch them :lol: we should leave the angler bashing to the anti-angling brigade and not give them fuel for their fire by arguing online about it ,so long as a fish is kept for a good use i have no problem .
It's one of the advantages of our sport that we get to eat some proper fresh fish and not something that has been dragged in a net for hours, stuck on ice for a couple of days then displayed on a fish counter in a supermarket .

[BigPhil]

i wouldnt say it would be a form of angler bashing by introducing the system, it would be form of promotion of catch and release, a 'good example being set' to help put the message across to anglers who may know no different.

i have no problem with an angler keeping a couple of fish for the table, but perhaps if they were in the know as to whether or not the species were in danger, slow reproduction rate, or of good breeding size etc it would help them to maybe be more selective about the fish the do choose to take for the table.

if the idea were to go through i would see it as a positive step in encouragement and as setting a good example to all anglers, it would in turn be something to help keep the anti angling lobbies off our backs as it would show them that we do take care of fish and that we do care for their future populations.

the more i do see these photos of dead fish in the magazines etc i do like to see the one good thing that sea angler do to encourage the catch and release of fish, in their shimano mission accomplished by putting a prize up every month for the best fish that is caught and released, these are positive steps in the right direction

[corbyeire]

well said phil

just to say the anti-anling groups relatively dont have a foot to stand on as regards fish numbers WHEN taken in comparison to commercial fisheries

but this doent seem to be considered - so the "good" side of anglings image has to be promoted

as ronald said as long as its for good use - not to sell on to restaurants/ feed the dog

taking for yourself is not wrong

[Donagh]

One of the big objections to angling by antis is Catch and release. Shoving a hook into a fish for pleasure. You can't argue with extreemists and theres no point bending over backwards to placate them. Most people eat animals and fish and they have to be killed to be ate. I believe the reason Ireland hasn't got the same extreemist animal welfare loby campared to Britain is we've a closer attachment to the land and killing animals. The more we remove ourselve from this the more animals become cuddly.

On a practical point of view how do we know whether a fish is dead or alive. I remember a SA catch and release winner being a boat caught wrasse picture in what was obviously a back garden. If I were to catch a 3lb codling it would have its head smashed in soon as look at it and then I'd take a nice picture before it was gutted ready for the frying pan. If I were to take a picture of the fish pre being whacked under the proposed rule it would be fine to put it on the web site being still alive.

Donagh

[corbyeire]

good point donagh - technically the fish is alive in the picture

theres the loophole - totally unenforceable from that respect

[Andy Elliott]

seen some boat angling web site with same sort of thing dead ling and boxes of cod in the gallery ,doesn't really put across a good image for boat or shore anglers .

Thanks for pointing that out ... the images have now been removed with the owners consent

At the end of the day 99% of anglers keep fish ,the other 1% prob cant catch them :lol:,.

Indeed , and I have no problem with that

My personal take on retaining fish will be coloured by how scarce they are as a species, their size, the time of year and so forth. Just basic common sense.

we should leave the angler bashing to the anti-angling brigade and not give them fuel for their fire by arguing online about it online.

Arguing about it online ? Angler Bashing ? .. again its a democracy and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I believe the term is debate. correct me if I'm wrong. Where do we debate these things if not online ?
Behind closed doors. Ive never been one for that, I prefer to get it out in the open, Ive nothing to hide ?

On a practical point of view how do we know whether a fish is dead or alive. I remember a SA catch and release winner being a boat caught wrasse picture in what was obviously a back garden. If I were to catch a 3lb codling it would have its head smashed in soon as look at it and then I'd take a nice picture before it was gutted ready for the frying pan. If I were to take a picture of the fish pre being whacked under the proposed rule it would be fine to put it on the web site being still alive.

Very good point
Maybe it should be changed to no pictures of obviously dead fish, ie taken in your back garden etc ?

Judging by the reactions on this thread I cant really see this happening, The site owner doesn't want to upset anyone, and quite a few people obviously like their " Trophy" shots ..me big white hunter etc etc
Ive noticed also some people removing the C&R on their shore reports, again personal choice, Me ? I'm proud of the fact that I C&R, Maybe some of you think I'm too pushy on this, diplomacy was never one of my strong points, if I have something to say I say it , doesn't make me a bad person now ...does it ?
Interesting story on radio Ulster yesterday about dead Guillemots being washed up on Bangor beaches , initial tests indicated they starved to death.


Andy Elliott

[Rockhopper]

I seen a plaque once with the words of an old 19th century Indian Chief, it read.....

Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught, will we realise that we can not eat money.

Makes me think, how come an old 19th century Indian Chief has more insight then our modern day political leaders, or did he just have more balls to speak his mind, instead of being lead buy bankers or industrialists.

Tom.

[Ronald]

Interesting story on radio Ulster yesterday about dead Guillemots being washed up on Bangor beaches , initial tests indicated they starved to death.
Read a bit in the paper about that as well bogaloo ,the co.down coast is littered with dead guillemots ,they reckeon it's due to their food fish moving north due to global warning ,suppose thats caused by all these gas guzziling jeeps running around :lol: but sure each to their own .

[teacher]

Sorry folks, I started this thread forgetting that I'd be disappearing for a weeks holiday, fishing and DIY :D

Some good arguments on both sides. Having skimmed through the posts, I'm inclined to agree with corbyeire. Better to continue as we have been and have everything in the open. Also, as Rockhopper said, these things need to be debated openly by anglers. Sandman also makes a good point about the importance of catch and release for different species.

Having thought about it again, keeping everything open and inclusive, and attracting as many anglers as possible to the site will probably benefit the conservation effort more than a negative attitude.

Perhaps a "Catch and Release Hall of Fame" section for photos would be a better plan ...

[corbyeire]

Perhaps a "Catch and Release Hall of Fame" section for photos would be a better plan ...

thats a good idea - spreads the word, no obvious drawbacks

[stevecrow74]

seeing that this post is about photo's and catch and release.. look at this thread...

http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bull ... highlight=


make up your conclusion..

[Donagh]

I wouldn't be against the idea of having any further hall of fame entries catch and release only. Just to clarify one thing I do think any Illegal pictures such as dead undersized bass taken off the site or dead sea trout without a tag. I also don't see anything wrong with members post objections to a large number of bass in one picture together as has been seen on the site recently.

Donagh

[corbyeire]

that picture was bait in itself :roll:

[Steve]

My two cents…

I release the vast majority of fish I catch, retaining the very odd fish for the pan. I am also very strong on the issue of C&R for bass. I’ve had well over 50 bass in the last two years (a lot of them trophy fish), and have kept only two. And I am quite proud of that.

I will always try and explain the benefits of catch and release to other (particularly younger) anglers. However I will not forcefully push my views on anyone, nor rant and rave about it. By banning pictures of dead fish you would be pushing your views on people who may not share them. I realise what you would be planning to achieve, but I do not agree that this is the way to achieve it.

Yes, by all means pictures of boxes of dead fish should not appear on this site. And obviously undersized bass should not appear either, nor pictures of several dead bass lying together. So common sense is required.

It is everyone’s right to take a fish home for the pan. End of story, like it or lump it. And if that person is proud enough of that fish to take a photo before eating it, and then post it on here, then I have absolutely no issue with that.

Quoting your own statistics, only 10% of people seem to care about Conservation on this forum. There was several mentions of democracy during the thread - would it be very democratic for that 10% to decide that the other 90% can’t proudly show a picture of a fish they caught?

PS – I didn’t fill in the survey, but practice conservation. And I am sure that there are plenty of others out there like me. So it is wrong to say that the most people on this forum don’t give a damn. I simply didn’t see the link to it. If it’s not too late, I’ll do it later today.