Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby jw » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:35 am

just wondering if farmed bass is so easily available and cheap is this not a good thing

if you were to target a fish like this illegally, and they are dispersed so widely in shallow weedy areas
how could you take all the risks and expenses and still undercut the legal stuff and still make massive profits?
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby AB132 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:36 pm

There is nothing new in retailers using labeling like this, it's not just Lidl and the likes. Go into any of the fish shops on Howth Pier and there is "fresh sea-bass" to be bought in all of them, you would have to look hard to realise that what you are buying was farmed in the Eastern Med somewhere - I believe Greece is a big producer as well - rather than fresh off the boats across the way. I would guess that very few restaurants are upfront about the origins of their "sea-bass" either.

While the intention is to pull the wool over the customers' eyes rather than to open the way for commercial bass fishing here the danger is that people will not realise that bass cannot be fished commercially here, or sold - and I've had this argument with people in my family before, where they were full sure that bit of bass they had was Irish, and definitely not farmed abroad.

If people don't realise it's banned it makes it that bit easier to remove the ban or dilute it (though I'm sure we could have full faith in our politicians to hold the line.... couldn't we? eh? anyone?)

If this thread is the difference between the first (misleading) package from Jim H and the second clearer package from Jim C then congratulations on a job well done to everyone involved. Serious kudos!
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby JimH » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:04 pm

the danger is that people will not realise that bass cannot be fished commercially here, or sold - and I've had this argument with people in my family before, where they were full sure that bit of bass they had was Irish, and definitely not farmed abroad.

If people don't realise it's banned it makes it that bit easier to remove the ban or dilute it (though I'm sure we could have full faith in our politicians to hold the line.... couldn't we? eh? anyone?)



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JW

There is definitely a plus in what you say as regards the farming of bass - (Although the method of farming and its associated ills need to be remembered too)

The fish are not always widely dispersed in difficult areas - this is one of the issues related to exploitation of the species, at times of tide during the 'season' they will congregate in localities at specific times. This has been historically capitalised upon here in Wexford and other locations too.

And coupled to that, at times of season, during preparation for spawning late November,December through to March or April they are often massed in shoals and easily exploited. I have no proof but I feel instinctively that this may have happened to the 'local' Wexford population.

I think there are people on here who know far more of this type of activity along the eastern Cork coastline and the western coastline than I ever will.

These 'patterns' are some of the characteristics of their (bass) 'K' species profile - some would day that the K profile can never be commercially fished. Ed Fahys chapter from his book OVERKILL on the Orange Roughy is fantastic example of this type of madness. A must read.

http://www.amazon.com/Overkill-euphoric ... 0957521804
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby Tanglerat » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:19 pm

Tanglerat wrote:
Dear Emer,


Since we're going to use first names, please feel free to call me "Tanglerat".


It's simply not good enough to present a protected species - a species protected by Irish law from commercial killing - as somehow being "produced" in Ireland. You are being deliberately ambiguous in your marketing.


Irish Recreational Sea Anglers have fought long and hard, first to gain protection for Irish Bass and latterly to maintain that protection from lobbying by commercial fish killers, to find your marketing of this farmed product acceptable. Your actions serve to bolster the arguments by commercial fisher interests that it is legitimate to fish for and kill Irish Bass.


We do not, and we never will, accept your presentation of EU farmed Bass as being somehow legitimate Irish Bass.


Regards,

Tanglerat.


And that was my last publicised correspondence with them. But, not my last correspondence:

13/03/2015
To: customer.services@lidl.ie

Hello again Emer,

No reply to my last email about this. No worries, because that's given me some time to think.

You're probably not empowered by Lidl to actually make any changes, are you? I suppose you're just parrotting the company line. Could you let me know who to escalate my concerns to, someone with the authority to make the necessary changes?

I'd quite like to go down the "talking" road rather than the "boycott Lidl" road and the "pickett the shops" road, because frankly, life's busy enough at the moment and also because I've always had a sneaking regards for Lidl's operations. But, do you know many anglers there are in Ireland? I wonder how many of them would be willing to shop in Aldi, or Tesco, or Dunnes Stores for a month or two, just to express their displeasure at Lidl's misrepresentation of Irish Bass?

Looking forward to hearing from you with the requested information.

Tanglerat


Hey, that eventually got a reply!

customer.services@lidl.ie

19/03/2015
To: tanglerat@hotmail.com

Dear Tanglerat,
We will certainly pass on your comments to the relevant department regarding your concerns with the Sea Bass. We now consider this matter closed.
Regards, Emer


Hey, that's not good enough!


19/03/2015


To: customer.services@lidl.ie
Emer,

Stop! Are you trying to fob me off?

YOU may consider the matter closed, but I assure you that I don't. Remember I asked you a question? One that you have not answered? Let me remind you:

"Could you let me know who to escalate my concerns to, someone with the authority to make the necessary changes? "

Now, please respond appropriately or I WILL start organising a boycott and picquetting of Lidl Ireland stores.

Regards,


Well, maybe that's given them pause to think about what they're up to:

customer.services@lidl.ie

To: tanglerat@hotmail.com


Dear Tanglerat,
We are currently looking into this matter and will be in contact with you shortly.
Regards, Emer


OK, that's a bit better. Let's wait and see what happens next, eh.

T' Angler

To: customer.services@lidl.ie

Thanks Emer, I'm beginning to warm to you (Lidl) again.
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby Tanglerat » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:59 pm

This is very disappointing:

customer.services@lidl.ie (customer.services@lidl.ie)


To: tanglerat@hotmail.com
customer.services@lidl.ie

Dear Tanglerat,
The back of the pack states that the fish is farmed in Greece or Turkey, but because it is packed in ireland we state that it is produced in Ireland.
Lidl do not do legislation , FSA does, if you have any further queries, please contact the FSA directly.
Regards, Emer

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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby Tanglerat » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:04 am

Worth a reply, at least:

T' Angler

You know what Emer, I don't think I shall contact the FSA directly. Whilst Lidl may not do legislation, they certainly do choose what to put on their packaging.

So, back to my last question, which I note you still have not answered:

Who in Lidl is the decision maker that I can escalate this matter to? How do I contact them?

Supply to me that information and I can leave you alone whilst I pursue this matter with them.

Regards,
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby Crevan » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:10 am

Me no likey Emer. Methinks I will have to make contact now too.
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby Tanglerat » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:18 am

Crevan wrote:Me no likey Emer. Methinks I will have to make contact now too.


Did I put up the Ref No she gave me, so she will know what it's all about and will tie together the email?
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby Tanglerat » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:24 am

Ref#11198192

If I could make a suggestion: Acknowledge that she is not the decision maker, and request from her the name/phone/address/email of the people in Lidl who are the decision makers.

Anyone else want to drop her a line too?

For this message the author Tanglerat has received thanks:
Crevan (Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:58 am)
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Re: Produced in Ireland V Produce of Ireland

Postby JimH » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:02 pm

I think it's important to realise that Lidl are within the current legislation in respect of their labelling, as far as I can determine, ALL aspects.

When the brochure appeared it contained two full pages with a strong Irish theme in respect of the fish represented on the pages hence the LARGE logo in the photo above 'Produced in Ireland'. This label at the time in the brochure did not advertise the source of the fish.

People's decision making in respect of purchase was already strongly influenced by the logo and the lack of clarity re source plus a strong sense of home product.

Jim Clohessy venture to Lidl reveals a label with the detail and a considerably smaller 'produced in Ireland'

My letter to Lidl is for a request to respect the important status of bass in this country, the impact on all stake holders in relation to perception, plus the possibility to recognise the status through a label that supports the conservation based relationship with other stakeholders anglers, tourists, tackle shops, publications and all the other socio/economic factors including foresight.

I mentioned Carrefour and their strategy in respect of similar instances.
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