European Meeting in Dublin Re Bass Angling

[JimH]

The Angling Trust has written to UK Fisheries Minister George Eustice calling on him to introduce a series of conservation measures to protect UK bass stocks in the face of the latest scientific advice from the International Council for the Exploration of the Seas (ICES), which has recommended a staggering 80 per cent cut in catches in order to protect the future of the species.

Failure to take immediate action to protect dwindling bass stocks would deal a “fatal blow'” to the credibility of both the UK government and the EU in managing commonly-owned sea fisheries resources, claim the Angling Trust.

The measures set out by the Trust include:

Publishing the findings of the review, commissioned in 2012, into the evidence supporting an increase in the minimum landing size (MLS) for bass.
Implementing an emergency increase in MLS to 45cm in order to protect the year classes upon which a stock recovery will have to be built.
Strengthen and enforce the UK's network of bass nursery areas.
Incentivise the line caught fishery to reduce unwanted mortality and improve selectivity.
Re-profile the current exploitation pattern away from fishing methods that have biggest negative impacts on stocks towards methods that are most environmentally friendly, selective, and generate the best return from the fishery.
Support the UK-wide voluntary Give Fish A Chance code of conduct for recreational angling.
Ensure that policy is formed on the basis of science and evidence.

See More Here http://www.anglingtrust.net/news.asp?it ... Trust+News

and The Science, Technical and Economic Committee on Fisheries (STECF) was recently asked to consider management measures for bass. The final report from the meeting can be found Here https://stecf.jrc.ec.europa.eu/plen1402

The significant section is [/b]

In addition to calling on the UK to take action to protect bass, the Angling Trust is part of a delegation of representatives from the European Anglers’ Alliance contributing to a workshop in Dublin next month where members of the Common Fishery Policy's Advisory Councils, including commercial fishing representatives, NGOs and the recreational angling sector, will be discussing joint recommendations for managing bass at an EU level which will then be put the EU Commission.

Last edited by JimH on Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

This should have happened 10-15 years ago.
But any progress is progress.

Thanks for the post Jim. Very interesting reading. Personally I think more could be done but it would be a bloody good start.

Section 6.3 of the JRC Scientific and Policy Report needs to be read - https://stecf.jrc.ec.europa.eu/plen1402 -
Section 8.0 list the participants and the and the STECF members


I'll put it as a download on Probassfisher later today..

The process for selecting participants for STECF meetings is as follows: the chairman, the coordinator the focal point and the STECF secretariat contact interested organisations and inform them of the upcoming meeting and invite suitable candidates to register their interest. As the meeting date approaches the secretariat takes the list of people who have registered and forwards it to the DG-MARE focal point, chairman and coordinator. The participants are chosen from the list based on their experience, but also in order to create a balanced group of participants (not too few, not too many) that covers the relevant geographical areas as well as areas of expertise. The list is published and an invitation letter is prepared. Only once an expert has received an invitation letter can travel be arranged.

From this website you can register for all events organized by the JRC at Ispra or at other locations.

https://jrc-meeting-registration.jrc.ec.europa.eu/

If this is your first visit to the "JRC Events Registration Web Site" you have to create your personal account

This you only need to do once, and then you will be able to register directly for any conference or workshop available on the website.


For technical issues: jrc-ers-administrator@ec.europa.eu

Hi Jim,

Where is the info on the Dublin workshop on that site?

J

Hi James

Follow this link http://www.anglingtrust.net/news.asp?it ... Trust+News

and following the text down Under the David Mitchell header paragraph you will find the 'Dublin' reference for next month

hope this helps James, couldnt find anything under the EAA site that referenced it directly (didnt look particularly hard mind)

Regards
Jim

We really need to get our act together! We are only finding out about a European meeting in Dublin via Jim and/or the UK's Angling Trust's website. Sorry to drone on but we really need an Angling Trust type organisation here to represent all (not just bass) anglers. Anyway maybe the Irish bass meeting (see Bass Reality thread) could be a first step.

Onwards and upwards...

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Hi Divisadero, several Irish people including myself(representing Irish Bass) were involved in the European Angling Alliance submission to be given at the Dublin meeting. Ed Fahy will be speaking there and John Crudden will also be there. Unfortunately I cannot attend.
I also attended (invited by the Angling Trust)and spoke at a meeting with the former English fisheries Minister in Westminster to lobby for a change to their mls and argue against a bass TAC. Following that meeting the 2012 UK bass review was commissioned. Martin Salter, David Mitchel and Jan Willem Wijnstroom have all stayed with me recently and Jan Kappel is in regular contact. We are acting much more closely than most people realise. If you read the current EAA bass position paper Ireland's situation is referenced throughout. Great efforts were made to make sure that the EAA's proposals did not adversely effect Ireland's bass laws.
Unfortunately I simply don't have time to put all that is going on in the public domain. Hopefully this is something we can sort out in the near future.

Okay John. Fair play for your continuing efforts behind the scenes. I know it's a huge ask but it sure would be great if someday we could have an Angling Trust type organisation here in Ireland. But first things first! The bass meet in November will hopefully represent a positive next step.

All the best.

Walter

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A lot to take in Jim....
There is an elephant in the room though and maybe some people on here wanting to go on a crusade need to realise the last few lines of the significant section.

The significant section is [/b]

In addition to calling on the UK to take action to protect Bass, the Angling Trust is part of a delegation of representatives from the European Anglers’ Alliance contributing to a workshop in Dublin next month where members of the Common Fishery Policy's Advisory Councils, including commercial fishing representatives, NGOs and the recreational angling sector, will be discussing joint recommendations for managing Bass at an EU level which will then be put the EU Commission.

This commission is an unelected shower answerable to absolutely no one and that includes the Irish and UK government!!
Angling/fishing unfortunately is now a political arm of the federalist EU; it’s a commodity which is very highly valued. The CFP was not designed for the benefit of the people of Ireland and these CFP advisory councils are pissing in the wind and so is anyone else who thinks anglers alliance are going to make a difference within the EU.

Look at this picture....................

And ask yourself why do we have to go begging, cap in hand, with the hope that the EU will hear us out. How many times have we uploaded AIS images of Dutch supertrawlers sitting off the west coast all winter or French and Spanish trawlers helping themselves to what is our birthright.

The answer is simple when typed but as was proven after 3 no votes where ignored hard to put into practice!!

Get the hell out of the EU and put our destiny back in our own hands where we use democracy as a means to govern and not through unelected bureaucrats.

Tight Lines
Aaron

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A lot to take in Jim....
There is an elephant in the room though and maybe some people on here wanting to go on a crusade need to realise the last few lines of the significant section.

The significant section is [/b]

In addition to calling on the UK to take action to protect Bass, the Angling Trust is part of a delegation of representatives from the European Anglers’ Alliance contributing to a workshop in Dublin next month where members of the Common Fishery Policy's Advisory Councils, including commercial fishing representatives, NGOs and the recreational angling sector, will be discussing joint recommendations for managing Bass at an EU level which will then be put the EU Commission.

This commission is an unelected shower answerable to absolutely no one and that includes the Irish and UK government!!
Angling/fishing unfortunately is now a political arm of the federalist EU; it’s a commodity which is very highly valued. The CFP was not designed for the benefit of the people of Ireland and these CFP advisory councils are pissing in the wind and so is anyone else who thinks anglers alliance are going to make a difference within the EU.

Look at this picture....................

And ask yourself why do we have to go begging, cap in hand, with the hope that the EU will hear us out. How many times have we uploaded AIS images of Dutch supertrawlers sitting off the west coast all winter or French and Spanish trawlers helping themselves to what is our birthright.

The answer is simple when typed but as was proven after 3 no votes where ignored hard to put into practice!!

Get the hell out of the EU and put our destiny back in our own hands where we use democracy as a means to govern and not through unelected bureaucrats.

Tight Lines
Aaron

I agree with everything your saying but the ambition will be frowned apron as too drastic and impossible..

This is what we should focused on, not on what anglers are doing... This is the real problem..

Hi JimH.

I'm ignorant to what this is all about and I'm probably being a little bit academically lazy to be honest.

In relation to the above is there anything you think we (normal joe soaps/the public) should do or can do?

John D.

This is a very good question as it leads to what aspects of bass fishing people are ultimately interested in and hence on a wider scale what they could effectively change and improve if they had a mind to.
We the normal Joe soaps should expect to be informed of the occurrence of such events, the profile of the people contributing and to some extent be confident (or not) in their abilities to deliver defined objectives in support of existing or improved practice, especially if we have made contributions to those practices.
If we haven’t contributed in any way the personal interest is of course considerably less to a large extent, and if it doesn’t affect our daily lives well then why should I bother........contrary to that is of course if you can make a valid contribution to an aspect or aspects which is ignored or not recognised, well that’s a significantly different scenario.
For me I often wonder what is the actual relationships of these( reports and) people etc to the angling environment, the fish, the complexities and influences of nature on a day by day, year by year basis, but heh....
The best blend of information is often a scientific one mixed, shared and discussed with practical long term experiences
I look at it like this - there are many many aspects to bass angling – it’s not possible to be aware, informed or qualified to understand all of the aspects, issues and experiences. Some are more difficult than others, some are very simple, some very complex and happen over long time frames.
In my mind all are important.
I don’t expect myself to sit absorb and interpret all of any scientific report correctly – I’ll do my best to remain informed by at least reading it a few times – if there were aspects of it that I felt needed explanation I would talk to somebody qualified to help me understand, otherwise its beyond me. That’s all I can do.
It happens to be that section 6.3 in the above is one of the easier reports to read.
There is much talk here in relation to a meeting in November – there are demonstrations of passion, anger, frustration, hope, bullshit and reality too in all these posts. There are many people interested in many facets of the fish.
I feel it’s important that we recognise that we are not all interested or have strengths in the same aspects of bass fishing, I’m aware of illegal fishing and its consequences especially as a fishing guide. Am I interested in working in that particular aspect of bass fishing to help improve it? No I’m not.
Yes I pull nets, yes I’ll make photos, and yes I’ll ring IFI etc , etc,
But I have interests in bass fishing that contribute equally as importantly to the conservation and awareness of the fish as does protection. They’re not big objectives – www.probassfisher.ie is a seven year example of one of them (good and bad), I have others too.
What are yours?

Jim
I understand the sentiment surrounding bass fishing, I travel the length of this country to fish for them too not to mention the cost associated, but there are anglers who spend just as much time and money, leaving these islands and head to Scandinavia in pursuit of Cod. I’m not going into great depths of what is ahead of you but I remember the EU Commission sometime around 2000/2001 trying to address the state of the Cod population in the Irish Sea, they introduced a “recovery plan”. I haven’t got all the figures to hand but I think from research I done many years ago the plan was enforced for 4-5 years and an area of the Irish Sea was closed off, the scientific advice was that the cod stock was below 6000 tonne, not a very healthy population for breeding and recovery. After the enforced closure of 4 years and also the various other procedures like net diameter and trawler decommissioning schemes the estimate was still said to be below 6000 tonne and not 10000-12000 tonnes expected. So even with the best of will and backed up with real scientific data and an agreed process the current state of play is grim.There was a slight increase in spawning in 2009 but nothing near what is needed.

I know from your other posts you are very good with the data surrounding Bass, I was wondering do you have any estimates of our population of Bass and if there was a recovery plan in place how long do you think it would need to actually achieve what it set out to achieve?
I would be happy to help with any UK issues you may have, just let me know.

Tight Lines
Aaron

When it comes to policy regarding fish species experience is almost everything - in an era where misinformation is the common currency.

Where Atlantic salmon are concerned----There is no substitute for a natural recruitment of salmon from rivers natural spawning areas of the river in question..but when a disaster overtakes a river like volcanic eruption (Iceland) or a hydroelectric dam (The river Lee in 1957) stepping in with a smolt release programme (as distinct from releasing fry into an increasingly hostile river environment) has proven to work beyond the wildest of expectations.
In the early 1970's I operated a salmon draft net in Cork Harbour and the vast majority of the fish we caught were fin-clipped ....which meant that they had originated from a smolt release programme operated by the ESB from 1967 onwards. This was in answer to a legal requirement for the ESB to attempt to rehabilitate a major salmon river which the they had buggered up with two hydro-electrical dams in 1957. Firstly - and most importantly - the scheme was overseen by a biologist that ensured that maintaining the genetic integrity of the River Lee was STRICTLY maintained. There was to be no dilution of gene pool from distant - or neighbouring rivers - and therefore a genetic and 'accurate' homing instinct to the Lee was to be protected at all costs. A the time, a return ratio of five to ten percent would be considered as viable. However, in practice the numbers far exceeded this number to the extent that occasionally the entire haul was fin-clipped.

Forty years down the road, the conventional wisdom is that smolt releasing does not work and is a danger to the indigenous native stock. And of course this conclusion is entirely based on slap-happy release programmes which have not preserved the discrete genetic gene-pool of the river in question.

Recently I was talking to one of my crewmen of forty odd years ago and I said "Do you remember all those fin-clipped salmon we caught in the early seventies"?
He said "Yes" and I said "Forget it. We just imagined it. Smolt releasing doesn't work".

I hope bass fishing fares better than this kind of nonsense.

Salar and Aaron - I sense experience, wisdom and a lot of living in your posts! I couldn't answer many of your questions on here Aaron I simply don't have the actual wider sense of the fish but I do have a 'fishing instinct'

I do however feel the Irish population of bass is a lot smaller than we can EVER imagine. Its also very vulnerable to ANY impact. Experiences could be missed by a generation - TIME is a big factor and coupled to water temp and forage type a path to recovery is twisty.

A high stool a fire and a pint of Guinness and I could get some of my experiences across to you both - if youe ever in Wexford ....

I have a lot of admiration for the work that Jim Clohessy is doing on the ground a perfect blend of scientific and boat angling expertise/partnership to facilitate the confirmation of missing data, applicable at least from this part of Cork.

This to me is one of the best ways to get things done - it will confirm a lot of the vulnerabilities of the species and i'm sure other valuable data too - like growth rates, diet impact, location fidelity, movements, patterns and rhythms and the wider influences on the fish like tide, weather and time of year.

Things that angling asks you to consider

I do however feel the Irish population of Bass is a lot smaller than we can EVER imagine. Its also very vulnerable to ANY impact. Experiences could be missed by a generation - TIME is a big factor and coupled to water temp and forage type a path to recovery is twisty.

r

Jim, I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Ed Fahy , who has done more research on Irish bass than anybody else always claimed that the Irish bass stock was very limited but their tendency to "cluster" often gave a very misleading impression of the size of the stock and was in fact their Achilles heel leading people to believe that they could sustain a much higher level of exploitation than was actually the case. Looking at the situation that we currently find ourselves in, he may well be proved right again.