Bass Fishing Reality

Hi guys I have been reading with great interest all the comments on here and have been debating if I should comment on the subject as I'm not a bass angler , I'm a fanatical fisherman but don't specifically target bass which if I read correctly is mainly what you guys fish for but I have a knowledge of dealing with poachers and have a great understanding of what the uk thinks of bass fishing in ireland having just moved over here.
Firstly dealing with poachers hurts , it doesn't matter how big , how good you think you are it will end up hurting . Poaching has changed , years ago every one knew the local poacher who for a couple of pints and some rolling tobacco could supply a few trout , a salmon or a couple of pheasants and so on and we all used him from time to time and it was fine . Now these guys are organised and this is now a business and not for a couple of beers these guys will protect their nets with what ever they can . I know that some of the gangs in the UK are armed not just with baseball bats and knives but properly armed . How ever you deal with these gangs is up to you guys , either mob handed or through the proper channels is entirely up to you , I've gone down both routes in the past in some instances both have worked , in others both have failed . Just think before you act , sometime you achieve more by standing apart from it and videoing the whole thing including the vehicles used than by going in for a row , might not be as much fun but can achieve more .
The UK fishing scene thinks that all you guys are catching hundreds of bass very week , every beach is full of bass and they are all massive . The angling press even during the closed season over here even went as far as to name some wonderful bass anglers over here who were catching amazing amounts of fish all over ten pounds , Henry Gilby is banging on about the wonderful fishing here on every page he writes ( sure there's a few of you would like to bump into him on a quiet beach ) . The truth of it is if I wanted to catch bass I would go back to South Wales to fish for them they are catching loads over there .

Reading how much you care about this issue and for the future of your fishing is inspiring , and your knowledge and experience has been such a pleasure to read and to learn from . I'm concerned about all fish stocks not just bass but willing to help in any small way I can , firstly I will put every bass I catch back until the end of next years closed season might only be a few , I might get quite a lot but they can all go back , why doesn't every one on here who is concerned about bass stocks have a month at least of catch and release every one I have spoken to out fishing since I have been here tells me about good sized bass they are catching and I ask every one of them if they put it back and none of them did .

I don't think any fish that is held in such high esteem should be easy to catch , I think it being difficult makes if special and the more difficult to catch it becomes the more thought has to go into the pursuit of catching it making the end result more personally rewarding .

One question you could answer for me . All the poachers I have dealt with have been on rivers . How do I know if a guy putting a net out in the sea is doing so with or without a licence . I drove up through passage and past monkstown and watched a couple of guys laying a net . They did this two days running and I parked up to watch but How do I know if this is allowed or not ??

I must say that I am pleased with the way that this thread has developed. Over 3300 views and 5 pages of sensible and honest contributions.

What looks to be in the very early stages of development looks promising. I am however, much more pleased about the way in which everyone has recognised that we have a problem and are that concerned that they are willing to do come together to do something. What's more inspiring is that the "dick measuring" and the idea that " it's not happening in my area therefore I couldn't care less" hasn't raised its ugly head.

I believe that we have made some positive steps forward but I would also like to see the momentum continuing.
For my part I can offer my assistance and support to the group through any way which I can.

Lets see us all bringing what we have begun to the next stage and beyond.

Well done guys, your bass would be proud!!!!

Very interesting reading here, just one thing I thought I would add as I couldn't find it mentioned:

If the forming of a group comes out of this and approaches are being considered on how to make a change, with regards to the black market would it be worth considering attempting an investigative campaign on the customers of these illegal bass catches. I was out fishing a fortnight ago, and whilst rigging up at the car I was told by two teenage passers by that they had caught a few bass recently and sold them to a certain very well known restaurant nearby. They were not aware that what they had done was illegal when I informed them.

Is there any record of the buyers of illegally sold fish ever being proved guilty, and convicted of the offence - or does the weight of any possible conviction lie with the poacher? If the buyers could not be convicted, could a (potentially dangerous) name and shame campaign be considered. It may not take much to get video evidence of restaurants buying illegal fish through an internal investigative approach.

Just an idea, but ideally if ever the market for illegal bass within Ireland were to decline, you would hope that it would impact on poachers.

Certainly worth writing to the well known restaurant manager , I'm sure they would have a Facebook page or reviews on trip advisor and would not want the comments regarding the purchase of illegal bass being highlighted on there

It has been mentioned previously that there should be an information campaign to educate restaurateurs. This is a good idea and could be done through the Restaurants Association of Ireland, The Irish Hotels Federation, & The Panel of Chefs of Ireland.

I'm in the hospitality game and I recognised a long time ago that wild bass could make its way onto the legitimate market and be sold as farmed bass. As a result, we banned bass from all of our menus entirely years ago!

These are all fantastic ideas, seriously this is the debate we should have and it is only us anglers who care so much about our stocks that can have it....

I have spoken to scientists, fishery board members, marine biologists, politics, business men and nobody has more passion then anglers....

I really do hope that this is the beginning of something really worth while, i propose a meeting of some sort where the people voicing there opinion on this thread can come together and bash ideas out and get something started...

I have been keeping an eye on this thread but have been tied up and without internet for much of the time over the last week.

It makes tough reading Crevan. To be honest I thought that JimH was exaggerating on the occasions that we have discussed the current state of bass fishing. To see more people expressing the same views makes me comfortable yet concerned. I am comfortable in that I know I have not lost my mojo and concerned due to the lack of fish!

Just to state from the outset - I do 99.9% of my fishing from the boat. I can assure you all of one thing: It is no easier for me to catch a bass from a boat than from the shore. Certainly in the Cork region we do not have any offshore reefs that produce bass so my fishing is carried out either casting or fishing vertically. Many of my shore angling friends will catch more bass than me for similar effort. All of that fishing is lure fishing, I have little interest in bait fishing (Live or dead) for bass. I have explained the phenomenon that is Irish bass is this way - If you are more than 300m (and usually 100m) from land you will not catch bass!

Anyway, from heights in 2011 the catch rate in 2013 was very poor. 2014 has been a little better but not hugely so. Some marks are producing well and some not at all. I have spent the time since June 16 largely within the harbour here the fishing has been sporadic. I have been spending lots of time in East Ferry. We are trying to complete another “data set” here. The fishing here is such that I would not spend as much time here. Really for the first time this year I gave the eastern side of the harbour a decent lash in the last week. Again the fishing has been sporadic, so much so that I spent more time fishing for pollack on the reefs rather than bass. You know things are not right when fellows are starting to call two, three or even five bass a decent return for a long day fishing! So in short - my catches are down, especially since the ban but my effort has decreased too. I’ll probably give things another lash as the tides come good again...

On the representative group/organisation: We have mooted this before and have floated ideas at various times but have not progressed further. We do need to get something set up (possibly not just for bass) as there are many things coming down the line including Marine Protected Areas. And let’s not forget the plundering of mullet from harbours, the hoovering up of sprat from bays and a general intensification of fishing effort by the inshore sector. I hear stories from all over Europe of improving situations in differing species and waters, sadly not here in Ireland. The need for protection of bigger fish has never been more apparent to me as this past week where I have witnessed over a half a dozen spear fishermen in operation - they are targeting the bigger fish (Trophy value?) and there certainly is not any C&R in that game. I don’t recall a “slot-size” in the Bass Policy Group draft document I saw.

It has been my experience that, as said by John Q, it is better to be dealing with the bodies that are tasked with protecting our species . We have had some degree of success here in our dealings with IFI as the Cork Harbour Angling Hub. I remember attending a meeting of lads in Wexford - did this group fizzle out?

In terms of the ongoing study - We are now into our second year. The results from the first set of fish has been astounding. You will appreciate that I cannot say too much as the scientists are studying data and preparing papers. However the amount of fish that have returned is astounding and the fidelity that the fish have to their location is incredible. It will highlight the fact that bass are very vulnerable to being wiped out locally. Do you remember that mark where you were catching a few bass regularly until somebody told somebody else and somebody else started to “take a few for the pot” and now the mark is barren? Well that mark may never return to its former glory, never!

I tend to notice more and more lure anglers heading out at night. Is this more recent trend putting a gloss on the figures for catches? Are guys catching more bass but doing in the hours of darkness rather than the traditional times?

The bass situation has occupied much of my time in differing ways over time... I could probably continue with questions and observations for much longer than this already long post!

"In terms of the ongoing study - We are now into our second year. The results from the first set of fish has been astounding. You will appreciate that I cannot say too much as the scientists are studying data and preparing papers. However the amount of fish that have returned is astounding and the fidelity that the fish have to their location is incredible. It will highlight the fact that Bass are very vulnerable to being wiped out locally. Do you remember that mark where you were catching a few Bass regularly until somebody told somebody else and somebody else started to “take a few for the pot” and now the mark is barren? Well that mark may never return to its former glory, never! "

This for me Jim is Gold, pure Gold. Too often have I encountered people keeping "just the odd fish" and then blaming trawlers for the fact that there are no bass there a year or two later. More people need to be aware of this.

In terms of the ongoing study - We are now into our second year. The results from the first set of fish has been astounding. You will appreciate that I cannot say too much as the scientists are studying data and preparing papers. However the amount of fish that have returned is astounding and the fidelity that the fish have to their location is incredible. It will highlight the fact that Bass are very vulnerable to being wiped out locally. Do you remember that mark where you were catching a few Bass regularly until somebody told somebody else and somebody else started to “take a few for the pot” and now the mark is barren? Well that mark may never return to its former glory, never!

I tend to notice more and more lure anglers heading out at night. Is this more recent trend putting a gloss on the figures for catches? Are guys catching more Bass but doing in the hours of darkness rather than the traditional times?

The Bass situation has occupied much of my time in differing ways over time... I could probably continue with questions and observations for much longer than this already long post! [/quote

Facinating post Jim ,I too have been following this thread with great interest and sadness.In relation to my local venues in east cork ever since 2007 the signs have been ominous due largely to the ridiculous amounts of heavy concentrated bass netting along the ballycotton to roches point stretches year in year out by the same individuals that has wiped out thousands of bass.
Remember the EAST CORK BASS ALLIANCE,this was set up with the best of intentions to try help stamp out illegal activities especially once the end of October spring tides arrive.Lets call a spade a spade apart from a few successes here and there the main culprits have yet to be put out of action despite many many many accurate and correct upto the minute tip offs,can anyone answer why not?
Your a 100% correct in the reference to bass been very localised.How many of us are guilty of making the "mistake" of innocently passing on information following approaches via pm after a successful outing and sharing online,i know I did and over a few seasons started to meet more and more anglers on the marks I used never see anyone and when I got talking to them quickly found out they too had been given precise and hard earned imformation from certain sources that only recently found out themselves about venue secrets.Unfortunately whilst the majority of anglers would return everything a lot of others would return tide in tide out taking their allowed 2 fish quota regardless of size.Now only recently im getting back on the rocks after a few years off and ive met a few of these new/old faces I encountered a few years back and all moaning about the lack of fish.
What the hell do you expect is my reply,the last time I met them these guys thought nothing of taking any bass they caught and when asked why?i was told sure the place is stuffed with them and im not breaking any law They still cant see that they too have contributed to the problem,its all the netting is their excuse.
Im sure this is the similar case all over the country,ignorance is bliss!
What has really been sticking out to me is that a lot of the marks I used regularly fish seem to always have anglers on them day and night,and from what ive experienced we are all working very hard just for a few fish,things have really changed in a few years Thankfully I found a few old diaries from the mid 90's that had a few "lesser" mark reports and ive tried them over the past month and whilst not hectic I and a "trustworthy" friend have had very consistant fishing of a few nice fish per session.These marks were considered 2nd rate back in the day but not anymore and interestantly despite a lot of netting locally over the years the numbers of fish hasn't decreased or increased since those mid 90's early morning sortees,i wonder is it the lack of anglers using these marks and taking fish.Thats the only thing I can think of to be honest as nothing else has changed.
I don't mean to be an even bigger kill joy but on top of the current drop in catch rate,id be genuinely worried about the 2009-2011 year classes due to the harsh winters.I'd imagine these broods suffered a very low survival rate due to the cold temperatures.This doesn't bode well at all and will lead to even poorer returns in the coming years.
This thread has many excellent points and views and im hopeful that if even a fraction of the effort that has gone into promoting the bass fishing along our coasts through the tourist and angling magazines etc can be redirected towards preserving what we have left then its not too late to turn things around,before we are remembered as the generation who allowed the welfare of the bass to slip through our fingers and become consigned to the olden days.
Im not as able bodied or agile as I used to be but i'll certainly be more than willing to help out anyway I can but we all need to stand together so as to make sure what we have we hold

im hopeful that if even a fraction of the effort that has gone into promoting the Bass fishing along our coasts through the tourist and angling magazines etc can be redirected towards preserving what we have left then its not too late to turn things around,before we are remembered as the generation who allowed the welfare of the Bass to slip through our fingers and become consigned to the olden days.

Words of wisdom.

I'm hearing the same things over and over, I made a comment on organising a meeting and nobody replied...

I don't know is it because I don't have a status within the fishing community or what that people don't take me serious... Noting will become of this because people love to speak and moan but when it comes down to getting hands dirty they just won't do it but will begrudge people that are doing something...

Through the dingle peninsula page there is a group of us getting things done, we making poaching public, highlighting the problem areas and we seeing fishery officers on the ground night and day...

We have had two nets pulled out of formoyle beach by the fishery officers in the last two months, this was going on quite regularly and I have heard reports of a 7 pound bass being caught there two weeks ago.. Also there was more big bass caught already this week there too... I am seeing the place full of anglers and hopefully with them nets gone, it is making some difference..

We had photos sent in of poaching going on in the miltown river during the day and now the fishery officers patrolling that area every week, night and day...

We have sent in GPS locations of illegal nets set all along the peninsula and I am pretty sure that has led to the convictions in the Brandon area...

We have highlighted the problem with unrecognised salmon rivers all along the peninsula and I am currently sending in information of these rivers to the nasco " North Atlantic salmon conservation fund" so that will put pressure on the fishery board to have scientific research done on these rivers, this will then make protection compulsory on these once forgotten rivers...

That's what we doing I just hope people can do there little bit...

Tight lines...

What a great example to set danbrosnan , great actions and great results

It's in his blood! Well done Dan.

PM sent, I'll be down that way soon for a few weeks, no doubt I'll be coming across multiple nets...just like every other year....

[daveyboy]

Has anyone encountered illegal netting around the coast in Dublin? Never have myself but then I wouldn't know what to look for to be honest. What kind of things should we be looking out for?

I've seen pictures of Gill nets on the web (string of floats yeah?) but thankfully, I've never noticed them along the coast anywhere here in Dublin.

One question though, is all netting like this illegal or is the case that you're allowed to net other species (pollock for example) like this but just not bass. Just think it would be usefull for anglers to know what should/should not be reported?

Last edited by daveyboy on Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm hearing the same things over and over, I made a comment on organising a meeting and nobody replied...
I don't know is it because I don't have a status within the fishing community or what that people don't take me serious... Noting will become of this because people love to speak and moan but when it comes down to getting hands dirty they just won't do it but will begrudge people that are doing something...

You’re working in isolation Dan, so are a lot of other people. It’s common to feel a sense of frustration, isolation and regularly at times simple downright madness. I wouldn’t worry too much about your perceived status within the fishing community.

There are many people on this thread whom have over the years experienced these emotions and more, the hard work, the effort, the community network, the attempts to make things right. The problem is that they too are often done in isolation.

At this time there is no vehicle to demonstrate publically any of these efforts, their status or how they have been progressed positively in a connected and cohesive fashion .

Yours Dan is a classic example!

Where are your efforts championed, demonstrated, lauded and progressed as a necessary part of positive rural marine development?
How and where is awareness demonstrated around your efforts and what it is you have to do?

Many people make contributions to the support and development of Bass fishing in this country, do so all the time in many different ways, many never get listened too or are considered in any fashion – not all of these contributions are directly related to fishing.

Much indeed needs to be done in an open connected transparent and responsible coastal community network of different strengths and abilities that support bass angling and all of its positive facets. This needs to be done within the constraints of the welfare of the fish.

This is a considerable challenge, but it can be done.

Has anyone encountered illegal netting around the coast in Dublin? Never have myself but then I wouldn't know what to look for to be honest. What kind of things should we be looking out for?

I've seen pictures of Gill nets on the web (string of floats yeah?) but thankfully, I've never noticed them along the coast anywhere here in Dublin.

One question though, is all netting like this illegal or is the case that you're allowed to net other species (pollock for example) like this but just not Bass. Just think it would be usefull for anglers to know what should/should not be reported?

This a great comment because you know something you actually need to know what your looking for, there is some education in it, i have had the benefit of being given this education...

When your eyes are wide open and you know what to look for its everywhere...

I seem to remember a fleet of the world largest trawlers off the Mayo coast for at least three months over the winter.
The first and second largest in the world as well as many large german trawlers.

They were supposedly fishing for boarfish. God only knows what damage they did to valuable baitfish (discards).

ok this might have nothing to do with the discussion but thought i'd throw it out there as well ( i know that you are all taking about decline over a number of years).

I have to say that most bass fishermen around my way keep everything they catch (in my view if you are fishing all the time...two fish a session is waaay too many).... Its funny because there are a number of them on this web site and sound as if they are the savior of bass fishing.
When it comes to it....many who say that they want to fight the poachers etc....would rather sit at home and be a keyboard warrior.

A number of them on this web site ... sound as if they are the savior of Bass fishing.
When it comes to it....many who say that they want to fight the poachers etc....would rather sit at home and be a keyboard warrior.

That needed saying, thanks. Sanctimonious utterances stick in the craw, especially when they come from some who spent years talking up Bass as the wunderfisch and then get surprised and peeved when the rest of the world wants to catch them, poach them, or buy them.

By and large I'm very encouraged by what I'm reading on this thread.

danbrosnan - your enthusiasm is inspiring, keep it up! You're right too about inactivity - I hope we're all not waiting on one another to get things going as a cohesive unit. To be honest I normally wait and take my queues from John Q. Therefore I'll wait to see what he wants to do when he has time for it. However if anything starts in the meantime I'll still gladly support it in any way I can. Mind you I already do a lot of campaigning on my own anyway i.e. writing letters, sending e-mails etc.

Morgan44 - I agree that many Irish bass anglers keep far too many fish. And they're the ones complaining about the lack thereof!

ronnach - I have always been of the belief that if we cut off the demand it would go a long ways towards cutting off the activity of bass poaching. In part answer to your question, I'm nearly sure
that part of the bass bye law states that it is illegal to buy or sell Irish bass.

Pat - good stuff and a massive tip of the hat to you for banning bass off all your menus years ago - it would be great and should be one of our main objectives getting others to follow suit.

beachbuddy - did you actually ask those old/new faces 'what did they expect?' because that's what I'd love to say to a lot of bass anglers. It's actually quite frustrating and downright maddening to think that they just can't see the effect their fish kills are having on their own angling pleasure!

daveyboy - I myself believe all inshore gill netting should be banned.

Jim H - well said!

Keep the faith everyone - we'll get there.

Yours hopefully,
John D.

Crevan, I thank you for your initial post.
My experience is eerily similar except I have had NO fish yet this year.
I have had 12 sessions since the ban. One hookup, one follow and none landed.
I fish lures at the same marks (N Dublin) on the same tides each year for the last eleven years.
This year is by far the the worst. Depressing even.

My catches echo Jim H's diagram earlier - although no where near the same catch rate. I am deeply saddened that his business may not survive - I have followed Jim's success from the start. Again, utterly depressing.

I have kept off the fishing fora for the last few years, bar some good, unexpected catches. I had an experience about six years ago whereby someone posted an excellent catch on one of the marks I fish that completely showed the location. For the rest of that season, the mark was fished out. I pulled up three anglers one night with four bass of no more than half a kilo each - they pleaded ignorance of the law. Shameful.

How much damage is being done by unscrupulous anglers I can only guess at. I am positive that it is much worse than any of us dare imagine.

This year and the end of last year, I have noticed three seals patrolling all of the bass runs I fish - to me, this is the more likely cause of the utter collapse of bass stocks in my location. Has anyone had a similar experience?

I am no keyboard warrior, nor do I have the answers, but discussion like this can only help us all.

We must recognise that there is a problem with bass stocks in our waters.
We must act sensibly to rectify it.

Regards
JK