Protecting angling fisheries

I am probably going to be controversial. So how do we protect our fish or what is left of them. In the USA everyone pays a licence and you are watched by a local officer. Seasons ( like our bass) are allocated and if you catch a fish outside of season you will get a polite tap on the shoulder to return the fish alive.

The argument against a licence here is that the money will go into the state coffers and be squandered like a lot of money.

If we look at the clampers or speed vans that are commercial they seem to work...... right I know that some of these companies are a bit to vigorous. However, I think that a happy medium could work in anglers favour.

At the moment there is a huge amount of poaching of bass around the coast. In fact I have never seen so much. At the rate it is going on there will be no bass left in the near future around certain areas. The fisheries officers cannot cope.

I wonder if all anglers were to pay a licence knowing that it would go to fisheries protection would it be worth while.

This would mean that there would be localised people who would check the ports, walk the beaches and search boats.

Maybe this would give the next few generations a chance to see what good fish are really like.

The alternative, to me, seems to have a cost like most of the Southern European countries where we will just catch for tiny fish.

Comments and suggestions welcome

[Divisadero]

The more I think about this the more I think we need an organisation like the UK's Angling Trust . We need one organisation that represents all anglers coarse, game and sea. The Trust (which was only formed a few years ago) operates by accepting both indvidual members and whole clubs. I think the individual fee is about £20 a year. Their website will have the details. It almost fell apart at the start due to infighting (including doubts from sea anglers) but they are now an effective body and have for example recently won a legal case against a council as well as lobbying parliament etc.

This would be difficult to achieve as a lot of anglers seem passionate when it comes to their own (sometimes narrow) areas of interest but are not so good at seeing the big picture and the benefits of uniting. But if the UK managed it maybe we could do something similar here.

Wouldn't it be something to have an organisation with trained professionals to take on the likes of the IFO on overfishing. Or to call the Marine Institute and Bord Iascaigh Mhara on the waffle they put out under the guise of scientific opinion to suit their position. For example recently re the Galway Bay fish farm and bass legislation debates.


Walter




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Last edited by Divisadero on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Interesting Stan, bound to be a bit controversial, I personally don't have a problem with licences and from what I know of the situation in the states it has lead to a recovery in stocks of certain species and seems to be policed very efficiently,just wonder like a lot of other people I'm sure, just where would the money raised go, if it was ring fenced and properly allocated then I could see it working but then this is Ireland and god only knows what would happen to any funds raised. Agreed that if the current situation continues we will all be fishing for mini species in the not too distant future.

The more I think about this the more I think we need an organisation like the UK's Angling Trust . We need one organisation that represents all anglers coarse, game and sea. The Trust which (was only formed a few years ago) operates by accepting both indvidual members and whole clubs. I think the individual fee is about £20 a year. Their website will have the details. It almost fell apart at the start due to infighting (including doubts from sea anglers) but they are now an effective body and have for example recently won a legal case against a council as well as lobbying parliament etc.

This would be difficult to achieve as a lot of anglers seem passionate when it comes to there own (sometimes narrow) areas of interest but are not so good at seeing the big picture and the benefits of uniting. But if the UK managed it maybe we could do something similar here.

Maybe this model is the way forward as it seems to me to be madness to have so many differnt organisations representing anglers( and their individual vested interests) when a unified approach would surely be better overall. Just my opinion and I'm sure you will get a lot of different views on this.
As for poaching its widespread as we all know but the resources are not there to deal with it.

A sea angling licence is the way to go, the holder has now bought into the fishery (in Government speak is now a stakeholder), has to be recognised by Government, and actually now has a real say in how the fishery is managed.

A by product is that for the first time Ireland will actually have a true head count of how many sea anglers reside in Ireland and also how many tourist sea anglers actually fish in any given year. In other words a constituency is officially born.

A licence is a prerequiste to both sea anglers being heard and the real aim of improved coastal fisheries.

I thought that there would be lots of opposition to my post

Glad to see that there is some support behind the idea .

I'm opposed.

The seas and oceans have been treated as a commons since the year dot, the resultant is what we have to live with today. For those who oppose what is a rational, and given the way our society is set up today, a management/conservation option worthy of consideration, why oppose and if so provide an alternative solution?

I'm opposed because licences don't work.

The seas and oceans have been treated as a commons since the year dot, the resultant is what we have to live with today. For those who oppose what is a rational, and given the way our society is set up today, a management/conservation option worthy of consideration, why oppose and if so provide an alternative solution?

I'm not at all keen on a licence. If push came to shove as a last resort I would go along but I think an all angling body (coarse sea and game) as discussed in my post above is the way to go. Even if a licence was introduced we still need a strong, funded body to represent angling as a whole against the many well organised threats that we currently face, as well as what's coming down the line in the future.

A licence may or may not help matters. That's of course even if you can trust the Irish govt. when it comes to implementation! But it will not solve the problem. In the UK all freshwater anglers (including coarse anglers) buy a licence but they still decided they needed to form the Angling Trust to protect their interests and many sea and game anglers have joined too. I lived in California and had to buy a saltwater licence to fish for striped bass. The California Dept. of Fish and Game are far better resourced and/or motivated than IFI and I had my permit checked more than once but the U.S. anglers still have to fight their corner.

With or without a licence we are in dire need of a body to represent and fight for all Irish anglers. A hard thing to acheive but perhaps it's worth trying.

Walter

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i would happily throw money i don't have at some form of license/angling representative if i thought it would protect fisheries and give anglers a say. when can we start?

For the opposition I think you need to think of the benefits. There have been several references to poaching of bass in the E Cork & W Waterford areas. Fisheries officers cannot cope. No doubt there are cutbacks in this service at the moment.

So has anybody suggestions. We can ignore what is going on and there will be nothing left in a couple of years......or we can look at the possibility of an alternative.

We need someone to protect our fish & fast.

I don't know how many anglers there are in the country. However, I know that I have seen the local pier and storm wall lined with mackerel bashers. If each of these were charged €20 for a month's license this would help to employ a local person to act in anglers favour.

I will be in Spain next week and will need a fishing license. Do I object.....NO? I will be in Florida at the end of March and will need a license.Do I argue....NO!! A license will cost me lees that 4 pints of Guinness.

I was in Clearwater , Florida, in 1996 with my 2 boys and we fished the local pier. We paid for a license to fish the pier for the week. We paid for a local license as well. It was brilliant..... we had non-stop pin fish and could store them in a live bait well on the pier. My son. John, caught a speckled a large speckled sea trout and was informed by the fisheries that it was out of season for this species and he had to return it. Snook were ever present under but could not be targeted as they were also out of season. Some were caught but had to be returned.

There was no fishing off the local beaches during the day to avoid sharks being drawn in. Did any angler chance it???....no the fines were to great.

We could have the same here. It would be easy enough to implement. Poaching would be greatly reduced. We could pay for a voice to represent anglers.

Stocks would increase. More visitors would come here.

This is a win win situation.

This is a great idea! I'm well up for this. Ok, so we're all struggling financially. But surely we can all sacrifice a few pints or cans for a weekend or two. Or don't go fishing for two or three weeks. I don't care where the money is spent (figure of speech!), it'll give us a much stronger stance. We'll be much more official and professional. We'll be legitimate stakeholders. For the sake of the future of our sport I believe we all need to act. Let's put our anger and resentment of authority to one side. For the sake of the bigger picture let's put our gripes & grievanves behind us and stand up to be counted. SAVE OUR FISH!!!

The future is bleak at best at this moment, licensing would be pretty much unenforceable given the expanse of our coastline added to the fact that poaching will always be a risk worth taking as long as there is a financial gain at the end of it, we also have people both native and foreign who take fishing as a means of sustenance no matter the size and no matter the species. There are indeed licensing laws here in the UK for course and game but it hasn’t managed to stop the emptying of trout and pike lakes here in Northern Ireland. Sea angling by its very nature has a much bigger problem and its overfishing of stocks, it has been relentless since the 1970’s and this is the reason for declines in stock, I am of course speaking of the main species like Cod, Haddock, Plaice which have been decimated, would I be right in saying the license that is being mooted would be around the catching of Bass primarily? I would love to have the fishing experiences that my father and grandfather had but it will take bigger changes in law. I would hope that the recent change on discards will have some sort of positive effect but we do need to get selfish here, we in the UK and hopefully Ireland in the future will have our chance to get out of this EU nonsense once and for all and start to take back control of our seas, our economy and our own destiny! Our small inshore fleet gets a real bad name at times and the vast majority of them are decent men just trying to make a living in some of the harshest conditions imaginable and these guys are not the big issue, nor are the poachers, its EU legislation which allows our waters to be pillaged by foreign nations! That’s not the reason we signed up to the EEC! We could have a real voice if we got the inshore fleet on our side and their propaganda machine, I know it may sound crazy but they already have an established voice and between Ireland and the UK this industry supports over 30,000 jobs added to this the anglers of both nations you can see the figures to build a platform from .If Cod, Haddock, Plaice and shellfish were to return to the levels of the 1950’s and lets face facts that’s what we all want as fishermen then it would benefit us all to work together to achieve this for future generations. I am a proud Northern Irishman but I am also a proud citizen of the UK and Ireland, we live in the finest islands in the world, our produce is second to none, our agricultural produce is noted throughout the world for its quality and as for our seafood it is desired on the plates of diners on every continent, we should harness our islands as a global brand and leave the horse meat peddling EU behind. 6.3 million tonnes of fish landed by EU boats in 2012, the UK made up 435,000 tonnes of this, Ireland landed 198,937 tonnes in 2011(latest figures), it’s absolutely staggering to think why we continue like this, what’s even more unbelievable is that we actually import as much when we have so much quality on our doorsteps. I know I’ve gone way of on a tangent but I ask the question to anyone who reads this on the forum “Why can’t we the pleasure angler co-exist happily with inshore fishermen and build a partnership in reaching the same goal”? I ask this as I don’t want to shoot down anyone’s suggestion of trying to make a difference, I just feel a license is not the way forward at this juncture but I welcome any questions or comments that anyone else may have on this.

Here’s a couple of links for some reading
http://www.seafish.org/foodservice/what ... -overview-
http://www.sfpa.ie/

State run licensing will probably not work here. However, if it is run by a private company my belief is that it will work. Such a body would be self financing. So if those employed don't enforce the licensing and look after the protection of stocks then they will have no jobs. It will in their interest to make sure that this system works.

Let us look at speeding on our roads. Before our current points system far more people exceed the speed limit. As soon as points were introduced most people realised very quickly that they could be off the road very quickly if they continued to speed. Accidents and road deaths decreased dramatically. So whether we like this system or not it works.

If you were to fishing on a beach without a license and fined for doing so then I think that you would soon be willing to pay for the license.

Also if anglers knew that the money collected from a licensing system ultimately was of benefit to the sport then I am sure that there would be widespread support.

State run licensing will probably not work here. However, if it is run by a private company my belief is that it will work. Such a body would be self financing. So if those employed don't enforce the licensing and look after the protection of stocks then they will have no jobs. It will in their interest to make sure that this system works.

Let us look at speeding on our roads. Before our current points system far more people exceed the speed limit. As soon as points were introduced most people realised very quickly that they could be off the road very quickly if they continued to speed. Accidents and road deaths decreased dramatically. So whether we like this system or not it works.

If you were to fishing on a beach without a license and fined for doing so then I think that you would soon be willing to pay for the license.

Also if anglers knew that the money collected from a licensing system ultimately was of benefit to the sport then I am sure that there would be widespread support.

Policing a massive expanse of coastline such as ours is impossible, are you maybe trying to suggest targeting the more popular beaches? I can understand a license fee/day passes for game anglers and in particular the salmon anglers, it’s pretty expensive here in Northern Ireland but the technology used and conservation efforts used have improved which actually allows anglers to see with a click of a mouse button how many salmon have passed through various parts of the river via salmon stations and also how many hatchlings or par that have been released back into the system, so you know how your money is being spent. But sea angling is difficult at the best of times, so say a license were to happen, how do we the angler benefit from a license when we have absolutely no control on trawlers who may or may not decide to target the area we are paying a license to fish in? how would we as license payers hold people responsible in the event of pollution of a beach through sewage discharge for example if it were not state run as the costs associated in issuing proceedings in a private case are astronomical and would far exceed the financial capital of license fees? I have thought about many ways of improving shore angling for many years but every path I have went down has lead me to the biggest contributer to poor inshore stocks, PRESSURE FROM OFFSHORE TRAWLERS,so who would get this license apart from the die hard anglers? The carry out brigade both native and foreign that frequent piers and beaches from March-October certainly wont, have you ever tried talking to these people never mind a private "rent a cop" trying to police them. The only solution as I have said before is through changes in law by the British and Irish people and not some landlocked bureaucrat in the EU,starting with quotas,access to our fishing grounds from foreign fleets being restricted or prohibited, allow the British and Irish people their birthright to harvest and manage our own seas. We were once proud fishing nations employing tens of thousands of our own people,supporting our economy through our quality exports around the world,we where not perfect by any means but that was mainly down to poor education and understanding of fish stocks which we now have many studies and scientific evidence to work with.

would you trust the government to spend your license money properly

people already pay for a salmon license but yet the government allow salmon farms in most of the bays at the start of some of the best salmon rivers in Ireland and are trying to add more http://www.bim.ie/our-work/projects/dee ... lmon-farm/

salmon farms and wild salmon
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-re ... point.html

the government are trying to pass the West Connemara Proposed,it covers the Connemara coast from roundstone to clew bay,as you can see on the map bays like mannin bay,clifden bay and kilary harbor where there are salmon farms already are outside the Proposed Special Area of Conservation

sac.jpg

the proposed galway bay salmon farm is only 25 miles from Proposed Special Area of Conservation

if you pay for a license will the government stop the over fishing by the trawlers,i don't think so because they are making too much money from it

over fishing and the damage the trawlers do to the sea bed is the main reason the fish are getting smaller,have a look at http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ everyday for a few weeks and see how much fishing boats are working around Ireland,last week i was looking at marinetraffic off the west coast

west coast.jpg

the photos shows 21 fishing boats in the area,how can fish stocks survive that amount of fishing
a few of the boats are around 120m long imagine the amount of fish that they hold

as for poaching a license is not going to stop that,yes it might pay for a few more Fishery Officers to look after the coastline but with 6,437km of coastline its going to be hard to patrol
if poaching is as widespread as people say why aren't more poachers ending up in court,if people want to stop the poaching let them get out there with their cameras and get some evidence to pass on to a Fishery Officer and let them sort it from there

a lot of people seem to forget that the government at the time tried to bring in a rod license back in the late 80`s http://irishelectionliterature.wordpres ... andidates/

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[Stan]

Julio I think that you are possibly a commercial fisherman. I do not believe that sea angling has been in anyway been responsible for the decline in our stocks of cod, haddock and plaice.[/color]

I would agree that there has been decimation of some of these species by commercial fishermen be they Irish or other EU fishermen. At the moment there is probably no quick solution to this problem. We joined the EU and are now paying the price

Yes I am talking about preserving inshore species, including bass.

We have a big coast but I think it is pretty small in comparison to the USA and they now seem to manage inshore stocks. Surely we can do the same[/color]

The future is bleak at best at this moment, licensing would be pretty much unenforceable given the expanse of our coastline added to the fact that poaching will always be a risk worth taking as long as there is a financial gain at the end of it, we also have people both native and foreign who take fishing as a means of sustenance no matter the size and no matter the species. There are indeed licensing laws here in the UK for course and game but it hasn’t managed to stop the emptying of trout and pike lakes here in Northern Ireland. Sea angling by its very nature has a much bigger problem and its overfishing of stocks, it has been relentless since the 1970’s and this is the reason for declines in stock, I am of course speaking of the main species like Cod, Haddock, Plaice which have been decimated, would I be right in saying the license that is being mooted would be around the catching of Bass primarily?

Last edited by Stan on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

First of all I have proposed that this would not be run by the government. It would be run by a commercial company. They would obviously pay a premium to the government for licence.

As regards the proposed giant salmon farm of Galway I think that anglers as a group need a strong voice to oppose this. What has happened to our sea-trout and salmon stocks due to salmon farming is disgraceful. Then again have anglers voices been heard in the media or with local politicians .....NO!!!!

Money talks and if we pay a licence then we can have some representation .

Poaching can be stopped also if we have proper angling officers looking after our coastline.

My belief is that all anglers should agree to this. This could stop the plundering of our coarse fishing stocks as well those in the sea.

Having seen this work in other countries I cannot see why it would not work here.

If you are on a beach, river or lake without a licence the officer will just take all your gear off you.

I have just come back from Fuerteventura and this is what can happen. I was not willing to risk my gear for a couple of hours fishing without a licence.

My daughter was working in Australia giving out licences to anglers. Nobody questioned this there.

This is not like water or property charges ..... I am proposing that it would be for the benefits of anglers and not the state coffers.





would you trust the government to spend your license money properly

people already pay for a salmon license but yet the government allow salmon farms in most of the bays at the start of some of the best salmon rivers in Ireland and are trying to add more http://www.bim.ie/our-work/projects/dee ... lmon-farm/

salmon farms and wild salmon
http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-re ... point.html

the government are trying to pass the West Connemara Proposed,it covers the Connemara coast from roundstone to clew bay,as you can see on the map bays like mannin bay,clifden bay and kilary harbor where there are salmon farms already are outside the Proposed Special Area of Conservation


the proposed galway bay salmon farm is only 25 miles from Proposed Special Area of Conservation

if you pay for a license will the government stop the over fishing by the trawlers,i don't think so because they are making too much money from it

over fishing and the damage the trawlers do to the sea bed is the main reason the fish are getting smaller,have a look at http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ everyday for a few weeks and see how much fishing boats are working around Ireland,last week i was looking at marinetraffic off the west coast


the photos shows 21 fishing boats in the area,how can fish stocks survive that amount of fishing
a few of the boats are around 120m long imagine the amount of fish that they hold

as for poaching a license is not going to stop that,yes it might pay for a few more Fishery Officers to look after the coastline but with 6,437km of coastline its going to be hard to patrol
if poaching is as widespread as people say why aren't more poachers ending up in court,if people want to stop the poaching let them get out there with their cameras and get some evidence to pass on to a Fishery Officer and let them sort it from there

a lot of people seem to forget that the government at the time tried to bring in a rod license back in the late 80`s http://irishelectionliterature.wordpres ... andidates/

Stan, the Salmon and Sea Trout anglers pay a licence. They have representation in the form of IFI, and stock protection in the form of laws and IFI Inspectors. To my reading of your proposal, they have a seat at the table.

They're still being stitched up by poachers, falling stocks, restrictions on the amount of fish they can take, and fishing they can do, other Govt agencies actively working against their interests, understaffing of Inspectors..... the list is endless. And you want us to follow the private commercial company model that they brought in for vehicle NCTs and for enforcing speed limits via a private company?

Stan, what on earth are you smoking?

Tanglerat, I just want to repeat that I believe that if we have a licence that is run by a private company that we pay our fees to and is answerable to anglers this MIGHT work.

If the current situation keeps going on as it is then you and I will not be discussing this in the future..... we may not have a reason to have a forum.

I will give you an example:

In August there were sign put up around Ferrypoint stating that bass anglers could keep only 2 bass. The previous night an angler carried 18 bass up to over 10lb from a local rock mark.

I can give you more examples of boxes of bass being landed in certain ports.

On the lakes there is wholesale slaughter of pike.

We have choices as anglers. .....choose to ignore this or try to prevent it.

My belief is that paying for a license to a company that will protect our fisheries MAY help.

Why not give it a chance? If the IFSA and other bodies could be involved I believe this could work.

As anglers we would have a direct input into a body that would help preserve our angling. The alternative seems very bleak !!!