2012 CFP - Irish quotas

For anyone who's interested:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1220/fish-quotas-eu.html

All the best,
John D.

no discards how exactly are they going to monitor this?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0206/366483 ... cy-reform/

God only knows what they're going to do but hopefully it's a better approach than the current one. Mind you I wouldn't say that'll be hard to better!

Hopefully!

Now that everything has to be landed, trawlers should use square meshed nets rather than diamond meshed nets. It will lead to a huge reduction of under sized fish landed.

That sounds good ronnie - hopefully that's the case!!!

All trawlers now work square meshed panels about 3 fathoms above the cod end. It is not possible to have a complete square mesh bag, it just would not work when it would be towed through the water.

Why would it not work? The only thing I can think of is there is more drag and you would need more fuel to pull it. Would
Half diamond half square work? Is it all European trawlers that use square panels or just Irish trawlers.

Square mesh panels mandatory on all EU demersal vessels.

As a former commercial trawlerman it would be impossible to have a net as you describe, ie try mending it! it would not catch any prawns(the mainstay of most Irish bottom trawlers), it is a bit like saying put wings on a car and it would fly! It just would not work.

Ok thanks for your reply. Would square mesh cod end let more smaller fish out.

At present I am doing a bit of stand in on a small 2 man inshore trawler, we work 100ml codends and have little more than a box of discards a tow. This is miniscule compared to what you would get with an 80ml codend. We work 100ml with 4ml twine size in our codends and it is very discriminating with fish sizes, we get no undersize haddock,whiting,codling (primarly because of the square mesh panel, but also because of the codend mesh size and the smaller twine size. The mad thing about this is that 80ml is the minium mesh size and the only thing you really miss out on is small prawns( a small sarcrifice to make for the better management of stocks). The authorities are at fault here for not upping the codend mesh size. They said 20 years ago that square mesh panels were a success, yet it took the Department of the Marine until last year to make them mandatory! The majority of Irish trawlers over 75 ft working the west coast in very deep water for monkfish work 110ml mesh size. The majority of inshore vessels working up to 12 miles off work 80ml, primarly because they are targeting prawns, this is also the case with larger east coast vessels who also focus on prawns. At prtesent in shore stocks(out to 12 miles are poor) offshore there is an abundance of Haddock, Hake and a reasonable amount of Cod. This is primarly because of the demise of the French fleet in the last few years. Over 5 years ago there were several hundred of these vessels fishing the south coast, today there is only about 50 of these vessels left(fuei costs,world wide recession, cheap imports from Iceland and the Faroes etc. The biggest threat to the Irish inshore fisherman comes from the Irish fisherman with the boat the next size up, not the foriegn fleets! This is the commonly held misconception. The way to go is 1. No twin rigging inside 6 miles, 2. No beam trawling inside 12 miles and no trawling at all inside inshore headlands(approx 1 mile from shore). 3. No take zones at strategic sections along the coast. 4. Minimum mesh size 100ml, twine size 4ml.5. Black box(sattelite monotoring aboard all trawlers, netters) and sizable fines for flaunting the law. As an angler and a former commercial man I am well positioned to see both sides of the arguement and know enough to cut through the bull and propoganda that is out there on both sides. Trying to get all the sides with various vested intrerests around the table and tell the real truth(without being economical about it)! is a tall order. We live in hope!

Brilliant post holeopen. Hugh fearnley whittingstalls fish fight could have a new lease of life with some of the points you made here.

Brilliant post Holeopen. Very insightful and informative. Your unique insights could prove invaluable to providing opinions, views and feedback. Your knowledge and experience would provide excellent perspective in any negotiations, discussions, debates or arguments between commercial and angling bodies in matters of stock management. Perhaps you could try and get involved with conservation in some way shape or form?

Thanks again for your post.

Tight lines and high hopes,
John D.

nevermind Hugh Fearlessly-Eatsitall over here instead Simon Coveney as the responsible Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine should get a copy of this post sent asap, he might need a distraction to help him off the horse and get back into his saddle (meaty pun intended)

Great info on here thanks very much

Hi Holeopen, some interesting points there and I appreciate your frankness. I'm afraid I do need to pick you up on you point about getting all sides to the table. Sea anglers have never been at the table. they are not even in the room or the building!
In spit of the fact that the European Commision's own figures show that recreational sea angling is worth more to the economy (for the species we fish for) than the commercial sector we have absolutely no say whatsoever. Up until now recreational fishing is not even mentioned in the CFP and we have been so brow beaten that we are excited that it might just get a mention this time. It would not be a tall order to get recreationals to the table, we would be over the moon to get the chance. It is all sectors of the "industry" and managers that are regularly on record as saying we should not have any say. After all we only do this for "fun". People with jobs like mine obviously don't count!

It would be impossible to get sea anglers around the table with other vested interests in Ireland. Primarly because unlike Holland, France and the Uk angling is very much a minority sport in the country and has no clout politically.
The best bet here I would think to get your message across is through Fáilte Ireland. If their angling representative would formulate a plan to best maxamise Irelands angling potential and put it forward as something to aspire and work towards.Trying to win the hearts of the Irish public will not work, because awareness of all things maritime dissapears once you go a couple of miles inland in this country, unlike other maritime nations where people have a great awareness of the sea and its potential. This is very evident in countries like Iceland, Norway and France. Fishermen in Ireland know how best to get public support, ie 1 The forigners are catching all our fish(some of our fish), 2We got a bad deal by joining the EU (yes they did, but it helped the greater good of the country no end) 3.We are trowing good over the quota fish over the side dead ( not true for the most part, these overquota fish are being landed outside of sea fisherie officers office hours, they cannot get overtime! and no one inspects landings) These are some of the ways public support is manipulated.

On the side of the commercial fisherman he simply cannot survive on the meagre quota that is allocated to Irish vessels (a large portion of the fleet) so he has to land overquota to pay his bills, keep his crew, feed his family and pay the bank. So it is easy to see where he is coming from ! What do you suggest he should do? What would you do?

Hi Holeopen, it almost seems like the two previous posts came from two different people but to be fair you may be playing "devils advocate".
I will not go into the who story of "our boys" getting a bad deal whwn we joines the EEC. Need I mention the vast sums they recieve in direct and indirect subsidies from our tax paying european cousins.
I think that the thousands of sea anglers who visit this site might disagree with your point about it being a minority sport. I am very well conected with angling lobby organisations right accross Europe and they fare no better than we do.
As for your second post. There are hundreds of thousands of people in this country who have fallen on hard times. Unlike commercial fishermen the rest of us had no hand, act or part in creating these problems. Are you suggesting it would be acceptable for all of us to break the law because we need money? Should we try a bit of house breaking just to make ends meet?
No. because most people will cut back and maybe try to find a little work where we can. As for what hard up commercial fishermen should do, how about not distroying the commonly owned resourse and like the rest of us put up with a bit of hardship so that their kids might have something left to fish for.

I am trying to look at both sides of the arguement and both sides have their pros and cons.
Out of curiosity approx how many sea anglers would you estimate are there in Ireland?

I don't know but as I said on the Protecting Angling Fisheries thread all Irish Anglers coarse, sea and game need to unite into one body. A big ask but they have managed to do it elsewhere and with a small population like ours it is even more important that we try to get all anglers involved in order to boost our numbers, revenue and appeal. Then we might get a seat at the table.

Walter

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