Foreign Nationals ( a sensible discussion.....)

I know that there has been a lot of posts on here recently about foreign nationals retaining undersize fish etc etc and I dont want this to turn into a zenophobic rant.

Does anybody have any sensible suggestions about how we can speak to these guys/educate them to the way things should be done.

Quite frankly, Im p****d off with watching them necking wrasse,tea bag flatties and basically anything they catch regardless of size or spieces.

I have lots of other issues with regard to angling etiquete, litter and just basic manners. Im also fed up with people telling me you cant speak to them, "they'll pull a knife on ya".

Is there any way we can get posters put in shops (in various languages), lobby politicians or get some sort of dialogue with these guys!

Some of the rock marks in Co.Antrim are being wrecked, now that the fair weather has arrived and I have a hundred stories that will make your hair stand on end. From what I hear, its the same all over the island.

If anybody has any sensible ideas about how we can try and reduce this problem I will be the first to give it a go.

Again lads, theres no point ranting "they shouldnt be here" etc etc. Everybody knows somebody whos away to Canada, Oz etc etc because of the recession, and these guys are here for the same reason.

I just wish we could make them play by our rules and show a wee bit of respect.................

Bazzer

Well Bazzer, its a tough one but the one reason that stands out is that they can get away with it. The laws here are crap and the enforcement and the fines etc are useless. As i have said in previous posts, my missus is russian and even she is dismayed by the penalties for everything that they getaway with. I'll give ya an example, i few years ago i was in Russia and i flicked a ciggie butt on the ground and this woman older than my granny took a go at me, although i couldnt understand her i knew all the bad words from the missus calling me them a few times , then the fecking cops got envolved and made me pick up every bit of litter in sight. Now my first instinct was going to tell the cops to go fu@K themselves only the wife told me that that would be a really bad idea, because after they hammer the crap outta me, i will end up in court and will get a fine and probably get charged with assaulting the cops , meaning time in the nick, for a fecking ciggie butt. Now imagine what it would be like over there for doing what these pricks are doing. How many of us on this site have seen some of the few reports in the papers about them caught without river licenses etc and the fines are pathetic. Make no mistakes folks, they know only too well what the laws/fish sizes etc are but they have absolutely no fear of getting caught because our laws/fines are a joke. I know this one gets a few ones rattled but its why i would like to see the introduction of a shore licence and then the cops/fisheries can start taking away their gear every chance they get. I know that means the rest of us suffering because of them (and lets not kid ourselves, plenty of irish at it as well), but its the only way to get the fisheries to come to the shoreline and not just the rivers and lakes. I look forward to some of the replies and keep the racism clean lads, not all them should be tarred with the same brush...

Its their culture to eat their catch and itll take a hell of a lot to change that .

No it's not there culture to eat there catch its free food plane & simple less money for them to spend

I was fishing with a lad from eastern Europe last year. He was on his way home and caught nought, I invited him to tag along us to fish with us as we were feeling lucky. Cut a long story short, he caught loads putting us to shame. His first few were tiddlers and he wanted to keep them. He looked over, all proud of himself, putting in his bucket. I nodded (a no nod) and cast my eyes back to the water. Fair enough, he threw it back in, and all other similar sized ones. Bigger ones, I would lift my eye brows and turn my palms to the sky. He would have to make the call.

On the way home discussing fishing in general, he said his main motivation was to only bring fish home to his girlfriend, to provide evidence of his manly hunting skills. My point is, yes there are people who keep small frys that, in reality, should be thrown back. However, there are far more people closer to home, who should know better than most, that ignore the "rules" for selfish reasons. As for litter, us Irish are experts at it. 99% of people that fish and take it seriously, do so responsibly, no matter where they are from.....just my thoughts on it. Good post btw

As being one of those "dreadful foreigners" and also as an ex-fisheries officer (in Poland we have a volountary service, so anybody willing to spend their time and money can guard their river or lake, after attending to a course and passing a test) and a fly fishing journalist I have a few ideas.
First - establish some laws regarding sea fishing - size and bag limits, like minimum size of f.x. 30cm and bag limit of 3 fish per angler. Than, some closed season, like for bass, during the spawning season. Than, you will have a good legal base to call IFI or gards if the law is broken. For now they are not doing anything illegal, though behaving senceless, there is no legal basis for even talking with fisheries officers. Than, launch an information campaign in media, gain contact with local fishing stores and newspapers. Than - there be no excuses like "me no speak english" - it would be breaking the law with every consequence of it.
Similar aproach was taken by freshwater fisheries - ban on taking pikes over 50cm etc and this seems to give basis to prosecute individuals with the lack of imagination connected with their actions and many of such actions were taken, with people fined for thousands of euro for killing a large pike etc.
And as for complaining about foreigners, especially those from "eastern Europe" (learn geography please, eastern Europe is Ukraine, Russia etc, not Poland, Czech and other EU countries) - I know that they cause problems, but I also see that they (we?) have become an excellent "finger pointing" excuse to not to blame local anglers and autorithies for some problems. So often I read, even here, how "foreigners" are emptying waters, how "they" should go home etc... But honestly, similar problems were here (I live in IE since 2005) before imigration and some local guys behave more or less the same way.
For example - only unpleasant situation I had here when fishing was around 2006. Some lads came as I was relasing a large pike, almost a metre long fish and start asking me to give them the fish. I told them politely that it would be illegal as the fish of this size must be returned. then they started to be very aggressive, I've heard that I'm a f..kin immigrant etc. I know that they are fishing in the area, as I've seen them few times on the water. So though it is a big problem, you shouldn't blame foreigners everytime for every problem with overfishing, rubbish etc, as more than few local lads do the same, at least in midlands. I'm not trying to say that foreigners are not a problem when it comes to fishing, more like that such a behaviour (or just call this simple - stupidity) don't have a nationality and should be adressed by the most interested - the anglers. Problems ignored don't seems to vanish, more like to multiply I think that the worst thing is when guys like you do nothing with what is happening on your shores. Really much can be done if only there is someone willing to spend a time and some effort to change what he or she doesn't like or want to see - f.x. how effective "green people" can be in inposting eco laws etc.
If you need any help with translations etc - I'll be more than happy.
For years now we try to educate fellow anglers in Poland about necessity of Catch and Release and more sporting behaviour etc, but we are starting from a tough position
If I can only ask - please do not generalise, as there is plenty of really ok guys from outside of IE, releasing almsot every fish and catching a lot of them. There is no such thing as "they" responsible for "everything", the same as not every Irishman is a catholic or a farmer, though many are. In majority immigrants here are rather peace-minded, no one should "pull a knife on ya" - in fact more often immigrants are stabbed to death by Irish, than vice versa .
All the best!

There's good anglers and there's bad anglers. Let's keep the debate along those lines please. Remember, some of those foreign nationals are respected and esteemed members of this site.

[mod hat on] Xenophobic postings will not be tolerated. [mod hat off]

I work in the fish business lads and the amount of small fish I see in a week would more than cover what 1000 "foreigners" would catch in a year.
Take a look at the commercial size limits....they are under spawning/maturity size for most if not all species.
Whereas I don't agree with the keeping of undersize fish if they are been eaten and enjoyed I wouldn't be too upset.
Most of what I see from the commercial fleet is either dumped or used for pot bait.
We are to blame for the state of our fisheries nobody else.

Any size limit for mack ?
If not they are not breaking any law if putting into their bags 10cm coalies, pollocks and macks ?
And i really hate this thread title, as i know more locals putting small fish into their bags.
How to explain them do not to do so ?

good post lads no laws on sea fishing only for bass. only one night on a beach did a fisheriers officier ask what we where fishing for

I work in the fish business lads and the amount of small fish I see in a week would more than cover what 1000 "foreigners" would catch in a year.
Take a look at the commercial size limits....they are under spawning/maturity size for most if not all species.
Whereas I don't agree with the keeping of undersize fish if they are been eaten and enjoyed I wouldn't be too upset.
Most of what I see from the commercial fleet is either dumped or used for pot bait.
We are to blame for the state of our fisheries nobody else.

So it looks like we have solution ,in the future who has got a similar (sensible discussion) is going for a days trip on commercial trawler

this topic comes up every year and its not going to change unless laws are made and inforced.as kids learning the art of angling .we were taught to return all juvinile fish at time back in the early seventies it was 12"for a flatfish ,14"bass,12"pollock ect.these were the guidelines we followed but they were not laws.and its very hard to swallow watching all our harbours and nurserys been left barren of these little fish by the bucket brigade .howth and dunlaire are prime examples .a child could be brought for there first outing and drop down the line against the wall and the coalies would be pulling the rod out of there hands. not any more .i dont think you can even get crabs there anymore.sad to think its all been cleaned out and we cant blame this on commercial fishing they dont fish in harbours.same as they dont have trawlers on the canals or on the lakes that have been emptied .when you see 10 of these so called anglers with there lidl bags of beer whats the point in confrontation.most people if they have kids with them just move off and leave them too it.because they are not in a position to tell them not to take little fish because there is no law preventing it.what i cant understand is why they wont try seal meat

Now theres a question:

How many of anglers dont understand your activity and the opposite ? Lets be honest, anglers do kill many fish with theyr so called sport !
Whats right and whats wrong in this world, thats the main question in this thread and i bet, you are not the gods to tell us that ... Or are you ?

I've fished a good few spots from Dublin to Kilmore quay over the last few months, and if your talking about foreign people not understanding the laws on bass or the general fishing custom here in Ireland. I've rarely seen any signs telling anlgers what they can or cant keep off fishing marks.

Every beach should have a sign up in many languages to inform the person fishing of the regulations here in Ireland, and if there are signs there should be no excuse.

The price of a few signs and a few 4x4 posts to stick them on it isn't a whole lot if its for the benefit of angling.

I've got a hammer and nails I'll glady to it wherever I land. gimmie the signs and posts...Information baffles brains

Groups of Irish lads on beach's all down the wexford coast bagging bass all through the ban. Loads of all types of people all over the country doing stupid things when fishing.....

The name of this tread is a complete load of crap because it should be "All nationals, How do we educate everyone on how to do it the right way"....

But his comment sums it all up!

Now theres a question:

How many of anglers dont understand your activity and the opposite ? Lets be honest, anglers do kill many fish with theyr so called sport !
Whats right and whats wrong in this world, thats the main question in this thread and i bet, you are not the gods to tell us that ... Or are you ?

I assume Doberman is asking who gives anyone the right to say taking undersized fish is wrong? And he wants to know who made you god!

Well let me try answer: We have been playing god for far to long, we as people not as a nationality have done far to much damage or allowed to much damage to be done! But we will always have people like Doberman who thinks that only god can tell him what to do because its a free country......

Myself and a friend had a chat about this before and tried to workout what the average takes home compered to a trawler, so we started by saying that the average size of shore caught Cod is 3lb and in Ireland our shared allowed quota on cod is 1500 ton, so that means 1,102,000 3lb cod would have to be landed a year by anglers to match Irelands trawling fleet.

Even if you up it to 6lb average size its still a hell of allot of fish...

I for one do not think that angles have an effect of the numbers of fish in the sea. I do think " lake, river and canal stats prove it" they have an effect on fresh water fish.

A lot of people here talk about how fishing has declined since the 70's, but the influx of foreign labour only started about 15 years ago. How come fishing has been in decline for up to 40 years.While we all may have a hand in it, there are other more important reasons. More effort needs to be made to get an taoiseach Angela O'Mercal to bring in laws on fishing and then we would have something to write on the placards along the shoreline. The title of this thread does not help as natives are doing the same.

what needs to be looked at is the bigger picture.how many wrasse hotspots have been emptied around the country?in the past 10 yrs .im useing wrasse as an example of fish we normally put back in.most of us would have a spot were wrasse would have been in abundance.and each time we caught one in was released .but once the buckets made an appearence the hotspot was cleaned out .same with small flats and dabs.there not there in anything like the numbers they used to be on beachs that was full of them .when was the last time on the east coast you had a session were you caught several fish over 2 lb? .from the shore?its a thing of the past. a flounder session in wexford could produce flounder up to 2 lb in weight and not just the odd one 20 yrs ago on .katts strand pulling them in doubles, trebles,last summer i blanked there, baits left untouched.for the first time in my life .and iv over 40 yrs of memories fishing there .looks like thats what we will be left with memories

Looks like I've opened a can of worms and maybe upset a few people which I didnt mean to do particularly with the title of the post.....

I know there are good anglers and bad anglers of all nationalities, the same way there are good people and bad people. I have nothing against people of any nationality/colour/creed living,working or fishing here.( I drive a lorry and am only too delighted to arrive at a warehouse and find it full of Polish workers because they'll have me unloaded in a tenth the time it takes Belfast men!)

When Im out fishing locally however, most of the "bad anglers" with regard to taking very small fish are Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians and Chinese. I dont care what the percentage of fish taken by these anglers compared to trawlers is! We all have to play our part in protecting the sport and if everybody is going to take a "who cares" attitude, we might as well forget about it.

Trawlers cannot get within a mile of the rock marks I referred to in my orignal post and they are being decimated of wrasse, pollack,coalie and conger over the past few years.

My other issue is gangs of people crowding onto certain marks and basically bullying others off them due to strength in numbers.

Again I will say I have experiences as recently as two weeks ago which were'nt pleasant to the point that my wife does'nt want to go to certain marks unless theres more than just us pair. I wont put them on here because I dont want this to turn into a "slag the immigrants session".

If its causing a lot of upset, I will remove the orignal post. I just thought it might be a good idea to see if anybody had any sensible solutions to what I see as a major problem.

Bazzer.

Talk to them.
I'm sorry to be so blunt, but as long as its an "us and them", then what do we expect?
I would always try to make them aware of the laws and the etiquette of our fisheries in a friendly way before losing the rag.
I've travelled and worked in these countries and like anywhere, it's a numbers game, we have our eejits and they have theirs, I will not generalise about countries and people, there's a word for that....
Admittedly the title of the thread would give you a wrong impression.
We need clear, detailed information publicly available and I believe this would be a big help.
How many people reading this thread know the laws regarding the sizes, bag limits and close seasons etc?
It's obvious from reading the bass ban threads, that not many do.
Maybe a sticky poll on here would help?

My other issue is gangs of people crowding onto certain marks and basically bullying others off them due to strength in numbers.

That's become an ugly feature round here too. One or two shore marks you just wouldnt go near any more. last week when me and a buddy were out in the boat collecting mack bait off a local "no-go" cliff venue, one guy on the clifftop started whanging his lead at us to get us to move off.