Crazy Law Curtails Ireland's Tourist Bass Angling Potential

As has been written previously in this column, angling tourism is worth an understated €100 million to the Irish economy, with sea angling tourism contributing roughly a third of that figure. It could be so much more, a serious anomaly in present passenger boat transport legislation exists which is most definitely affecting the creation of jobs in the angling services sector. Let me explain.

Bass angling is big business especially in America, and we attract lots of American tourists. Also, forty percent of Ireland’s tourist traffic hails from the United Kingdom where there are an estimated 300,000 bass anglers. Wexford is home to some of the best rod and line bass fishing in Europe. Guided boat fishing for bass in coastal waters using flies and lures, from vessels averaging 20’ in length carrying up to three passengers, is a feature service in US states such as Massachusetts.

Professional small boat bass angling guides in America can earn before tips up to $800 per day, providing a service which is an exciting addition to the social fabric of coastal regions, and of course attracts tourists while providing real employment and spin offs to local service providers such as hotels, B/B’s, restaurants, pubs, etc. Under present Irish charter boat passenger legislation the type of operation described above is not allowed, which is not only anti job creation on a number of fronts, but also limits Ireland’s potential as a tourist destination.

To keep this simple and jargon free, The Department of Transport is the regulatory authority for merchant shipping which includes passenger boats. Under current legislation a qualified skipper can hire a small boat for self drive purposes to a complete novice with no sea going experience. That person can then proceed out to sea by law travelling up to three miles off and fifteen miles up or down the coast. In effect this country is legally putting that novice boat person potentially in danger.

On the other hand, should the novice decide to hire the qualified skipper to take them out to sea in the very same boat, under present legislation they would be disappointed as current regulations regarding the carrying of passengers at sea will not allow it. A ridiculous state of affairs but there you are. What makes it worse is that the relevant department within the last 18 months has been notified by this writer of the anomaly and its implications regarding job creation and tourism, with to date no visible action or even an update. Why am I not surprised?

The contribution of tourist sea bass angling to Ireland is substantial, and could be further increased if qualified professional skippers were allowed to carry anglers, in recognised small boat vessels such as Boston Whalers, within Irish coastal waters up to three miles out and fifteen miles along the coast. Today privately owned craft of a similar specification fish up to twenty miles off the coast in safety, why limit a professional?

Should anybody from the relevant department mentioned above, a local TD or Minister happen to read this column, please contact me. The opportunity to develop further jobs and tourism revenue is very real, let’s amend this ridiculous law NOW!

First published in the People Newspapers 12/07/2011 © Ashley Hayden

Ashley I've been doing a bit of looking into this area recently and as far as I can find out you certainly can hire yourself out as a skipper on your boat.
The thing is it then comes under passenger boat rules like ferries to islands etc., and you have to apply for a licence think it is covered under P3.
Have a chat with Mike Kline (?) in the marine survey office very knowledgeable and helpful guy.
I don't mind knocking government departments when they get things wrong but you of all people should maybe do a bit more research before doing so.
Correct me if I am wrong on the above as I have an interest in the outcome.


Yappo

Yappo, I have. Researching into the possiblities I was thwarted by this anomaly 18 months ago. Since, I have revisited and met with the same blockage, and that is after pointing out the obvious, nothing was done to correct the status quo. Yes, I was looking for a P.3 licence to fish in open water and the regulations did not allow. I spoke to Dept of Transport, marine section people in their Donegal, Cork, and Dublin offices and all came up with the same answer relative to boats in say the class of a Boston Whaler, which was my prefered option. So, and I am not being smart, either I do not speak good english, the Dept is hard of hearing, or I just did not speak to the right person. You can discount the third option, I know that I did.

Might be worth having a word with Ian Burrett who runs small charter boats in the UK, he would be able to advise on their requirements - http://www.onyermarks2.co.uk/

Thank you very much David, I have just spoken to Christine, Ian's partner/wife I assume, Ian was out with clients. He now operates four 19' boats and employs two skippers since starting up a couple of years ago. I will talk further with Ian when he returns home this evening.

Well guys/girls that says it all, I have a 19' boat outside and can categorically state that while I can hire that boat to anybody and everybody (no experience required) in this country and let them go to sea, I cannot be hired as a skipper and take them out to sea. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I HAVE TRIED TO SET UP THE BUSINESS, RIDICULOUS.

but if you take out 3 lads fishing on your boat and they give you a present of say" 180euros in a brown envalope"on there return to the moorings your not breaking any laws as long as you dont advertize as a charter boat you dont need to get a charter license .lets call a spade a spade no one travels for free on anyones boat.whether its chipping in for fuel or baits a nice big grey area

Brown envelopes are alright Twinkle until someone decides to sue you, and that in this day and age could be your best friend.

I take your point, but we are talking about setting up a legitimate commercial operation.

To keep this simple and jargon free, The Department of Transport is the regulatory authority for merchant shipping which includes passenger boats.

Hi Ashley

I have communicated directly by email with Leo Varadkar (Minister of Transport) on a number of transport issues and have got a personal response. Did you try to email him?

Ashley have you applied for a P3 Licence?

Yappo

Brown envelopes are alright Twinkle until someone decides to sue you, and that in this day and age could be your best friend.

I take your point, but we are talking about setting up a legitimate commercial operation.

if they dont want you to opperate, it will be tied up in so much red tape that the end result wiLL NOT BE VIABLE.you will be told of it interfering with charter boats livelihoods ect.get afew cards printed hit selective hotels in your area, cut the manager in for 20 euros for any bookings he gets you and keep it small and low key. public liability insurance on the boat is only void when you get paid for a trip. dont take any PRESENTS until the trip is over and your on the quays.where theres a will theres a relative.

JD: Presently one of L.V's colleagues is on the case.

Yappo: I have started the process of applying for a P.3 twice and been stopped dead in my tracks twice. On each occasion, once the officials dealing with me understood that I wanted to set up a small boat recreational angling charter operation in open sea (rough in their terminology) as against smooth water they could not help me, as there is no provision in the law.

Twinkle: I really considered that move, however I am a naive idealist with a view that Ireland is in the s**t because of brown envelope practices and needs to move on and grow up. That said, it is about surviving and you are correct, and I know this from very recent personal experience relative to this exercise, the red tape and "worse still begrudgers" does and will try to hold you back.

Yappo: I have started the process of applying for a P.3 twice and been stopped dead in my tracks twice. On each occasion, once the officials dealing with me understood that I wanted to set up a small boat recreational angling charter operation in open sea (rough in their terminology) as against smooth water they could not help me, as there is no provision in the law.

So what was the restriction? too far out to sea or what? I thought it was just a matter of making sure the boat and skipper were adequate for the job. I guess I am just a bit naive PM me with details if you like.


Yappo

17ft boat outta Cork harbour licensed for passengers targetting bass primarily...
http://www.corkbass.com/

Its do-able, but I think you will need to state that you will be based in 'very' calm waters... they will be very reluctant to licsnse anything so small for ocean charters...

But I do think it is possible... License it for esturaries predominately and then once you have the license you can move out further. Either way, have a chat to the above if you haven't done so already.

The Cork Harbour operation has to work inside Roches Point.

Secondly, with regard to your licence, detailed info' regarding where you operate has to be tendered and the licence is built around that.

You cannot get a licence for the open sea. If you operate outside the agreed terms of your licence your insurance will be invalidated.

Bottom line lads is this, the paper would not publish the piece if it did not stand up. Furthermore, not a dicky bird have I heard fom the Dept of Transport Marine section since it was published, and that lads is confirmation enough.

Sad but True.

Lads,

How is it that Diving boats, RIBS i'm thinking of, can get licenced? They go well off-shore.

Are they a different class?

caz

Caz, the law has made provision for that type of activity, which makes it all the more silly that small angling boats skippered by a "qualified professional" are not included in the mix.