Foul hooking fish for sport and food....

Everywhere i go,i see or hear about people foulhooking mullet on purpose..
You might be thinking its only the Foreign Nationals that partake in this activity but the locals are at it too!!!

The difference between the FN`s and locals is that the FN`s do it for food and the locals do it for 'sport'

There are 3 marks at home where i`ve witnessed this happen regulary and i`ve heard about many more.....
A good mate told me he watched the FN`s do it on a Dublin river last week.
And last week while i was in Co Cork i spoke to many locals who were telling me that FN`s were down the night before i arrived and left with a big bag of freshly foul hooked mullet,from one of the country`s best mullet marks..
I was told that it happens all the time down there

This is only the tip of the iceberg.Its happening all over the country and this crap has got to stop
If they were a major commercial species like bass would`nt there be laws to stop it!?
Mullet are a very slow growing fish and deserve more respect than this..
Studies show that it takes a mullet 20 years to reach 5lb and 25+ years to reach 8lb
How long does it take a bass to reach this size??

I worked out i spend well over £1000 pound per year on mullet fishing and would happily pay much more to ensure the future of my sport..
I wonder how much gets spent in Ireland(north and south) every year in pursuit of mullet??
I know it wont be as much as bass fishing but surely its still an important part of the country`s economy!?!

Surely they deserve some form of protection??
Has anyone ever spoke to or found out how the fisheries officers feel about this??

Would like to hear other peopls views on this..

shocking really is'nt it...i seen gang at it down east-cork direction a few weeks back & it made me really mad & they were irish,i really shud of said sumthing to them but did'nt want to be gettin in to an argument,there cards are marked do!!!

I don't do it myself... BUT...

Isn't foul hooking just another technique to catch fish?

Similiar to cast netting for mullet?

I don't really mind what people do to get a few fish for personal consumption, and I'm impressed by ingenuity, but so long as the people aren't doing the dog... I hate to see a fisherman leave with more than 4 or 5 fish at any time using any technique....

It's not at all sporting to do it. I also love mullet and would love to be able to catch them at the rate you do. I also spend many hours and euros in the pursuit of them. I don't have very strong opinions on the subject but i definitely wouldn't do it and don't consider it angling. I'd rather spend hours watching the mullet sailing around my bread than to gaf one of them.

It's not at all sporting to do it.

Well I'm with you there, but if someone is out to get one for the pot, I can't see a prob.

different levels of ethics in the fishing for them end of the day i dont think the mullet would pick any method over another we all have blood on our hands

I'm with Davy on this. Hate the idea of snatching mullet, or indeed any fish.

How'd any sporting angler like it, if he went to his fav mark and found all the fish gone because they'd been foulhooked and dragged sideways/backwards out of the water?

How'd any sporting angler like it, if he went to his fav mark and found all the fish gone because they'd been foulhooked and dragged sideways/backwards out of the water?

I know what you are saying... but does the method change the result?
Would it be any better if one agler camped there for a week and took them all by fly or float?
Or is a netter took them?
Or if a bus load of angling toursits turned up and cleared out the site and only took home one each for the pot?

Like it or not sports anglers do not own the resource and as long as it is legal to keep a few fish for the pot... then people will.

Now what is ethical is very much subjective and a personal choice... but as the law stands foulhooking is a legal method and if they wanted to clear out an area they can.

May not be nice.... but that the law.

To be honest I had never heard of foulhooking a mullet before, but thinking about it it might just be a very successful technique... I wonder how many other people reading this forum have just been 'thought' this technique today... and you don't even have to be a poster to read this section... oh dear

Isn't foul hooking just another technique to catch fish?

Are you for real mate???!!
Thats like saying you`d be happy to watch a trawler sweep along your fav mark and clean it out just because they weren`t breaking any laws doesn`t make it ok
Or maybe you`d be happy watching someone drag in an illegal gill net on on of your marks,full of nice fat fish to feed himself
These people are getting no thrill out of catching the fish(just like the illegal netters) its all about food and saving money so they have more to send home
Then there are the fish that get away with big holes in their sides Is that ok too?????
The locals who do it for sport put the fish back with are even worse cos they put all the fish back with chunks missing

For a so called angler to say this is ok is f**kin mental

It's not at all sporting to do it. I also love mullet and would love to be able to catch them at the rate you do. I also spend many hours and euros in the pursuit of them. I don't have very strong opinions on the subject but i definitely wouldn't do it and don't consider it angling. I'd rather spend hours watching the mullet sailing around my bread than to gaf one of them.

Good to see some sense out there!! Cheers evan

I'm with Davy on this. Hate the idea of snatching mullet, or indeed any fish.

How'd any sporting angler like it, if he went to his fav mark and found all the fish gone because they'd been foulhooked and dragged sideways/backwards out of the water?

Cheers mate well said!! no right minded angler would like to see this happen

I don't do it myself... BUT...

Isn't foul hooking just another technique to catch fish?

Similiar to cast netting for mullet?

I don't really mind what people do to get a few fish for personal consumption, and I'm impressed by ingenuity, but so long as the people aren't doing the dog... I hate to see a fisherman leave with more than 4 or 5 fish at any time using any technique....

Surely foulhooking is accidently hooking the fish ,not deliberately targeting them Theres very few anglers that I'd know who would agree with this

Surely foulhooking is accidently hooking the fish ,not deliberately targeting them Theres very few anglers that I'd know who would agree with this

I'm hardly an expert, I only heard about it today!

But from the first post it is implied that it is done on purpose, so I would imagine delibreately targetting them.

I don't really think its the anglers that are doing this TBH. From whats written here...

Are you for real mate???!!

Absolutely.... I don't like or approve of fox hunting either but it is legal... I may not agree with or partake in it but that does not give me a right to slander abuse or otherwise the people who do it...
Its your opinion that these people were acting un-ethically and not giving enough concern to your leisure activities... but yes I am sorry, but legally it is ok... They are doing nothing wrong. To compare it to an illegal activity is sensational at best.

These people are getting no thrill out of catching the fish(just like the illegal netters) its all about food and saving money so they have more to send home
Then there are the fish that get away with big holes in their sides Is that ok too?????
The locals who do it for sport put the fish back with are even worse cos they put all the fish back with chunks missing
For a so called angler to say this is ok is f**kin mental

So you are presuming the mentality of people you do not know, and mixing them in with illegal activity, and assuming they are not local (I hasten to add foreign...). Hmmmmmm

Any fishing activity will result in minimum damage to fish and maximum death to fish... Sport anglers also....

TBH, all my comments have said I do not agree with it, but there is absolutely nothing I can legally do if I see it, and I'm not sure I would...

[Davy Murdoch]

I may not agree with or partake in it but that does not give me a right to slander abuse or otherwise the people who do it...

Yes it does...... its called freedom of speech!!!!

Its your opinion that these people were acting un-ethically and not giving enough concern to your leisure activities...

OUR leisure activities....not just MINE!!

To compare it to an illegal activity is sensational at best.

You completely missed my point that it SHOULD be made illegal!!

Any fishing activity will result in minimum damage to fish and maximum death to fish... Sport anglers also....

Eh what!!??
These people will do,and have done MAXIMUM death to fish in this and other countries......including their own!!!
They show no respect for your country or mine and take a big dump on it everytime they leave the house to go "fishing"

I wonder if they took a big dump on your lawn would you be so nice to them??

but there is absolutely nothing I can legally do if I see it, and I'm not sure I would...

nuff said!!!

Last edited by Davy Murdoch on Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

What I think Davy is talking about here are the idiots that purposely target fish with a large treble hook with the lead directly below, commonly known as "stroke hauling". Is it legal? i'm not sure but try targeting a salmon with a stroke haul and you will quickly find out. I have read reports of people before the courts for same. Not sporting by any standards. foul hooking a fish is considered to be accidental, stroke hauling is not.

How'd any sporting angler like it, if he went to his fav mark and found all the fish gone because they'd been foulhooked and dragged sideways/backwards out of the water?

I know what you are saying... but does the method change the result?
Would it be any better if one agler camped there for a week and took them all by fly or float?
Or is a netter took them?
Or if a bus load of angling toursits turned up and cleared out the site and only took home one each for the pot?

Like it or not sports anglers do not own the resource and as long as it is legal to keep a few fish for the pot... then people will.

Now what is ethical is very much subjective and a personal choice... but as the law stands foulhooking is a legal method and if they wanted to clear out an area they can.

May not be nice.... but that the law.

To be honest I had never heard of foulhooking a mullet before, but thinking about it it might just be a very successful technique... I wonder how many other people reading this forum have just been 'thought' this technique today... and you don't even have to be a poster to read this section... oh dear

Donnyboy1 Yes the method does change the result. A man has to put in lots of time and effort to catch a single mullet by sporting means. The same man will probably appreciate his sport so much and respect the quarry to the extent that he will release the fish out of admiration for it and a desire to keep the stocks healthy. Even if he does bang the fish on the head, its one fish. If the same boy put the same amount of time into trying to foul hook mullet he would have caught a large no.
of fish, fish with horrible wounds that might die released or not. Snatchers are out to put as many fish in the car as they can in as short a time as possible. I know some well and have seen them work. A bath with 24 dead salmon in it at the end of the day, a good days work. Have also witnessed the demise of over 70 sea trout in one day by teenagers with only a couple of days practice with treble hooks. To this day they regret what they did. Over half the fish went bad and were threw in a field, good job. This kind of waste doesnt happen in fair fishing, this is what snatching brings about, when things go right for them. If its illegal to take salmon and sea trout by snatching (and it is illegal), then I would be appalled if it were legal to do it with mullet or any other species. I just dont know the law on it at present.

So yes the method does change the result. Snatching is easier than angling and vastly more productive, potentially detrimental to healthy stocks. The fish isnt duped or lured or decieved when snatched, its taken, robbed. I/m not trying to attack you for your views, just want to clarify the chasm of difference re the legitimacy of angling and snatching.

I can understand a non angler being oblivious to the rights and wrongs of how a fish is caught, Ive heard every viewpoint from a broad spectrum of people before. Re salmon poaching in a river, in essence it is irrelevent to the stocks as such if a salmon is killed by a man with a fly rod or a man with a machine gun, this isnt about that, its about whether a person has caught a fish fair or whether they have just helped themselves to it in the easiest way possible. The unfortunate fact of the matter is only anglers understand the difference and they have to suffer the ignorance of those who dont understand and dont give a toss.

Not attacking you Donny, but this is an important point.

Edit: one last point, the crux of angling is to get a fish to accept your hook, not to drive a hook into its side when it isnt expecting it. If a man was broke and hungry I myself would foul hook him a fish, no problem. If its only being done out of laziness and selfishness there is no defence for it.

I checked with IFI..Inland Fisheries Ireland...fishing by means of stroke hauling, snatching or foul hooking, or if suspected of it is illegal[b][/b] and the minimum penalty is a €150 fine.

it also does not matter what type of fish it is or if its freshwater or sea water

Good post cathalger!

From the outset I am unsure as to the merit of Sporting angling. Not calling anyone out on it, but in my opinion its not right to catch something for fun if you have no intention of consuming it...
FYI http://www3.carleton.ca/fecpl/pdfs/AABS ... on2007.pdf
http://62.141.187.3/abt4/mitarbeiter/ar ... E_2007.pdf

I fish with the intention of killing and eating what I catch (so sometimes my fishing trips have been as short as 20mins or as long as a few hours). They are magnificant wild animals and I would only interfere with them if I was going to eat them. Thats just me, but I want to make that distinction clear.... All current research (and I am a scientist) points to the fact that C+R may possibly be doing far greater damage to fish than most people realise... The fish develop more anxiety, don't grow as large and can influence the shoal in terms of breeding and feeding habits, so over a few generations the fish may get smaller and be harder to catch.... This would not happen with catch and kill.... like I say... its only food for thought. So all anglers should just bear in mind (I don't know who do C+R btw) that the high ground may not be so high.

So I am really only considering the merits of catching for the pot.

If a lad goes out to catch 2 mullet for dinner for his family, I really cannot see any problem with him using ANY legal method as long as it does not damage the marine environment. If I was to catch mullet I would prob use a cast net before using foul hooking, but there is the possibility of catching more than you want...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cast_net

I think the confusion here comes from lads going out and doing the dog... I don't approve of that regardless of the method, but legally there is not much I can do. (not talking bout poaching here) Ethically I would possibly take a photo and post it a place like here... (as I do when I think I see nets in east cork) but legally... there is no point reporting them to the cops or fisheries officer (but I will take a close look in my boat).

I have to admit... I never considered this foul hook method to be a catch and release method... its like people practicing gill netting for catch and release...

EDIT: Thanks for that hottopic. Well that makes my arguement moot
I reckon it would be hard to prove though...
The stroke hauling that is being discussed I never heard of, I was just thinking about some lads using a set of 6 mackeral feathers and throwing across a breaking shoal of mullet... hard to prove at that, but weighted trebble's would be a bit more clear cut.

http://www.fishinginireland.info/regulations.htm

SO I was wondering, a lot of my whiting lately from the boat have been foulhooked (maybe the cod hooks are to big??) The good sized ones I've been keeping.... Technically is this illegal????

http://www.fishinginireland.info/regulations.htm

SO I was wondering, a lot of my whiting lately from the boat have been foulhooked (maybe the cod hooks are to big??) The good sized ones I've been keeping.... Technically is this illegal????

My first thought Donny in relation to the legal technicality of keeping accidentally foul hooked whiting while fishing for cod is that -if it ever came to pass that you or anyone else stood before a judge over the matter, I think the judge would either have to be a fanatical animal rights man OR have a personal vendetta against you for him not to throw the case out of court as it would be a waste of valuable court time.

Anyone who deep sea fishes with traces of feathers is aware of the fact that fish are foul hooked by accident, not every day but it does happen. But Ive never seen or heard of the angler who heads out in a boat to intentionally foul hook fish which he cannot see way down in the depths with a set of feathers. While it may even possibly be technically illegal for a fish which is foulhooked to be kept, eg one of the nice whiting you got (jealous, I love whiting), its basically of no consequence. I broke the law repeatedly when I used to copy cassette tapes instead of buying the original, but I dont think Im heading to jail or gonna get a fine because Ive confessed it on here.


Just in relation to the scientific evidence that c+r is a lot more harmful to fish stocks and fishing than anglers realize. If I had the time I could very easily find an awful lot more scientific evidence to the contrary. I kill fish too, I love eating fish. There are situations where c+r is crucial if fish stocks are to remain healthy. I have quite a catalogue of recaptures built up done by myself and some by friends over the past 5 years. Thats right, fish returned and recaught later that week, that year or in a subsequent year. Photographic proof. This includes river and lough fish, had 2 different lough fish caught on 3 seperate occasions. Healthy as, unnaffected by previous recaptures, but most importantly, still alive.

You cant talk so generally about angling and whether c+r is good or bad, the circumstamces are too diverse. But one thing is for certain. Dead fish cant breed.

I know where you are coming from re the dont catch it if you aint gonna kill it. You are one of a highly principled tiny minority. It wouldnt work for me.

1: I want to be fishing if Im not working or sleeping. (You cant observe enough or learn enough to be a succesful angler in the first place if you do not fish much and often. )

2: I know very well from years of observations of specific waters (lakes) that removal of too many fish by anglers reduces the population (sorry for stating the obvious) and affects the quaility of the sport to be had there. Not to mention the environmental issue of over expoitation. Ive seen good fishing go to the dogs because the word got out and the fish were killed by people who simply didnt realize the impact they were having. In some cases catch and release should be and has been made mandatory , you like it or lump it, no quibbling, you do not get to decide and for very good reason.

Purely from a fish stocks point of view, there are times when it is absolutely fine to kill quite a lot of fish for eating and there are other times when the killing of 1 fish is unacceptible. Your scientific evidence against c+r is basically highly selective, very generalised and inapplicable in a very many fish species populations.

Dead fish cant breed.

Cathal.