Disgusted, shocked and saddened

You 100% they were Bass? There is a herring fishery as well around there as well, I believe. They net around Kilmuckridge for them as well

jd has hit the nail on the head...

they were hauling a herring net like their forefathers have done before them... there has been herring fishing at this time of year for over 100yrs.

I was speaking with a local fisherman & representative of Courtown who is "disgusted, saddened and shocked" by the scurrilous & slanderous accusations labled on the good people of Courtown & has requested that a full retraction of the accusation accompanied by an apology be issued by the "OP"

if the weather was good you would see netting of herring there again... & for the next few weeks while the run of herring continues.

if common sense had prevailed & the "OP" made enquiries locally this sorry episode need not of happened.

in any case the suggestion of setting a Bass net in the location discribed is bordering on laughable as there is not a sufficient run of Bass there to begin with.

Lastly while no angler codones illegal netting some of the comments on this thread in particular "threatening to shoot them" and pictures of guns is both childish & unhelpful in anyway & tarnishes conservation minded people who are currently doing great work to try & protect Irish Bass.

big lesson to be learnt from this thread about jumping on the band wagon and giving your six pence worth,fair play to the mods,they have warned so many times,well done .

Hi Saltydog.

When I saw the nets and saw large silver fish among the other fish I thought they were bass.

Based on what I thought I saw I then had the subsequent feelings or emotions of being 'saddened, shocked and disgusted'. I can't make an apology for how I felt.

I believe that if anyone is reporting an incident to a fisheries officer they should report exactly what they saw. That is exactly what I did. I never said for sure that I saw bass being pulled from the nets. And when I was quizzed on this by the fisheries inspector and indeed our very own jd I told them exactly that - I wasn't sure!

Do you really believe that anglers should make local enquiries each time they see a net in every corner of Ireland that they fish? The illegal netting and the speed at which fisheries inspectors can respond in this country is dire enough. Can you imagine how dire it would be and how discouraged anglers would be from reporting nets if they had to make local enquiries before they do so?

However in saying all that I do believe that a lot of the comments made in this thread were over the top, especially the ones regarding guns and shooting. I also admit that I was very naiive and ignorant when I went along with this by stating 'I would if I was legally able and had the right equipment'. I apologise for that, there was no need for it.

You said these comments could hinder the efforts of the good conservation work being carried out by others. They could indeed - but so could yours I'm afraid.

Because there is a legal and honest herring fishery carried out in Courtown, should it mean that Courtown is exempt from inspections?
Also, because there is not a strong run of bass in Courtown does it mean that there are no bass running through Courtown?

I've seen a lot of your posts and I've often sat back in awe and admiration at some of your bass catches - fair play! Considering you've enjoyed such good fortune and joy from the enchanting sea bass I thought you might have displayed a little bit of caution and reservation before you (to my mind) struck a blow against the small and insufficient effort that currently exists to protect sea bass.

So please let me re-iterate:

Under no circumstance do I condone the comments made by some users on this thread. But I don't believe 'local enquiry' is a job that anglers (trying to make a difference) should have to do. 'Local enquiry' is a job for the fisheries inspectors after the all important call is made. Fisheries inspectors are heavily reliant on calls from anglers around our coasts. Sea bass and any other fish species in need of protection don't stand much of a chance if the very people who are trying to protect them have their efforts undermined by others.

I'm disappointed that an honest fishery was brought into question - but I make no apology for my actions. You should see in my original post that I didn't accuse local herring fishermen of netting bass.

I hope we can remain amicable and maybe we can even fish together some time. I equally hope that I'll see and hear all about your conservation efforts in the future.

Yours faithfully,
John D.

Hi John,
lets look at your original post again:

I was out fishing today when for the first time in my life I witnessed first hand two men hauling a big net out of the sea. I've seen a net or two before but actually seeing one being hauled in is a completely different story. I can only assume it was Bass they were after. The two lads are hauling in the net and each time a big silver wriggling shape appears it's quickly grabbed and put away. No sooner had they started when they were speeding off into the darkness towing their tiny boat behind them.

As blatant as ya like. I know this sounds dramatic but I felt like I was witnessing a serious car crash, that's how shocked I was and that's how much Bass fishing means to me! They were pulling in the net along the side of the RNLI boat house. I wouldn't mind but I was fishing to the left of them and there were other anglers to their right!

I mean talk about brass balls - the cheek!!!

Anyway tight lines,
John D.

I have nothing personal against yourself and please don't take my comments as a personal attack... I recognise you're currently heavily involved in conservation efforts and you are to be applauded for that.... However you've painted a picture above that gives serious implications on the fishermen involved who were fishing legally. I was contacted by local fishing representatives who were livid with the way they were portrayed in your post. As other fishermen and indeed local anglers know who these lads are that were hauling their net the implication that they were carrying out an illegal operation is indeed quite a serious matter and not one to be taken lightly. Perhaps one of them will be good enough to come on here and put forward their own thoughts on this rather than going through myself.

With regards to making local enquiries as you are well aware and indeed know the patron, there is a Angling Centre located within the harbour. If you had queried what the lads were netting here for example a simple explanation would have shed light on matters. That is what I meant by making local enquiries.

No I do not feel anglers in general should make local enquiries when they see something that looks dodgy unless as above they know people involved in fishing in the area concerned as was the case with yourself in this instance.

I don't see how my comments could be taken to damage the conservation effort... of course Courtown shouldn't be exempt from inspections and indeed as you know there is a strong commercial fishery that operates from the harbour and random inspections of boats is not uncommon. The fisheries board as has been previously well documented in several threads are under pressure staffing wise.... if people are unsure about fishermen hauling nets in full view of the public or worried about a line of crab pots and want to call in a report that's their own prerogative. I wouldn't deter anyone from reporting something they are unsure about but should common sense not come in to the equation at all??

I'm sorry you somehow feel that I've struck a blow against the cause, but know this I have previously and will again in the future no doubt when circumstance dictates take direct action when it comes to illegal fishing. However not everyone wants themselves or their efforts publicised for various reasons and you also have to respect this.

Agreed local fisheries officers are reliant on tipoffs and calls from anglers and concerned members of the public but to maximise their effectiveness some common sense has to be used (i.e. hard facts and proof) otherwise while they are off on another wild goose chase someone somewhere is getting away with it....

As I said at the outset I bear no ill will or malice against you and I would gladly go fishing with you in the future and indeed discuss Bass protection issues...

Regards,

Conor

a big silver wriggling shape appears it's quickly grabbed and put away

What size herrings are being caught down that neck of the woods?

Had I witnessed big silver wriggling shapes being put away, I'd have been on the phone right away to the Protection Officers, like John D.

...contacted by local fishing representatives who were livid with the way they were portrayed in your post. As other fishermen and indeed local anglers know who these lads are that were hauling their net the implication that they were carrying out an illegal operation is indeed quite a serious matter and not one to be taken lightly. Perhaps one of them will be good enough to come on here and put forward their own thoughts on this rather than going through myself

Indeed, I'd be fascinated to hear from them what their story is about those "big wriggling silver things" that john D says he saw. Are they claiming they were herring? Or some other species of fish, not subject to control? Or that John D didn't actually see what he claims he saw, or that he's misinterepted what he saw?

a big silver wriggling shape appears it's quickly grabbed and put away

What size herrings are being caught down that neck of the woods?

Had I witnessed big silver wriggling shapes being put away, I'd have been on the phone right away to the Protection Officers, like John D.

...contacted by local fishing representatives who were livid with the way they were portrayed in your post. As other fishermen and indeed local anglers know who these lads are that were hauling their net the implication that they were carrying out an illegal operation is indeed quite a serious matter and not one to be taken lightly. Perhaps one of them will be good enough to come on here and put forward their own thoughts on this rather than going through myself

Indeed, I'd be fascinated to hear from them what their story is about those "big wriggling silver things" that john D says he saw. Are they claiming they were herring? Or some other species of fish, not subject to control? Or that John D didn't actually see what he claims he saw, or that he's misinterepted what he saw?

Sometimes you see what you want to see.... and from 120yards away that's fairly impressive...

Myself I'd prefer to have proof and hard facts before throwing accusations around...

In any case a fishing representative of Courtown has agreed to add their comments to this thread it will be in the morning as they're currently on the road.

a big silver wriggling shape appears it's quickly grabbed and put away

What size herrings are being caught down that neck of the woods?

Had I witnessed big silver wriggling shapes being put away, I'd have been on the phone right away to the Protection Officers, like John D.

...contacted by local fishing representatives who were livid with the way they were portrayed in your post. As other fishermen and indeed local anglers know who these lads are that were hauling their net the implication that they were carrying out an illegal operation is indeed quite a serious matter and not one to be taken lightly. Perhaps one of them will be good enough to come on here and put forward their own thoughts on this rather than going through myself

Indeed, I'd be fascinated to hear from them what their story is about those "big wriggling silver things" that john D says he saw. Are they claiming they were herring? Or some other species of fish, not subject to control? Or that John D didn't actually see what he claims he saw, or that he's misinterepted what he saw?

Sometimes you see what you want to see.... and from 120yards away that's fairly impressive...

Myself I'd prefer to have proof and hard facts before throwing accusations around...

In any case a fishing representative of Courtown has agreed to add their comments to this thread it will be in the morning as they're currently on the road.

Very interesting reading lads from all parties involved.What has really caught my attention is that the commercial fishing world have voiced their concerns about reputations been tarnished over this incident.That is unfortunate alright especially if no laws were been broken.I wonder if the commercial people are as upset about the cases of real illegal netting of bass etc around our coast and if so why have'nt they voiced their concerns about it publically as they obviously can read the posts about it on here.
What would give people a real bit of hope would be if these illegal netters etc would be named and shamed by legitimate commercial fishermen to the relevant authorities so that ordinary folk would'nt make wasted calls to the fishery boards just because illegal netting may have been observed and suspected.The commercial lads are on the sea daily and know exactly whos who and whats what in there own areas and know exactly if illegal fishing is going on,but id doubt very much if any info would be passed onto the authorities hence the likes of the original poster and the rest of us will have to continue to pass on our calls of concern to the fishery protection people.
Also if this topic proves something else it is that "big brother" is watching us and that people are right not to post exact locations of where they had decent fishing sessions as word on wheres fishing well travels very fast and not just amongst the angling for pleasure world.

Just to clear up any confusion on this matter, I don't normally put my name forward or comment on a lot of discussions on this forum.

My name is Joe Byrne I opperate a tackle shop & charter business in Courtown Harbour. I can state as a solid fact that the fish in the net in question were herring. the work being carried out in our area on conservation & particullarly bass protection does not need to be put to question.

Locals here are disappointed with these allegations but also understand the lads concern.

There has been a local herring tradition here for long before our times. The boat station has always been a place where the locals caught herring. Truth be known most of the lads wouldn't even eat bass. Ye should all try a half dozen herring fried with some brown bread & butter! Then ye will have lived!

I can state as a solid fact that the fish in the net in question were herring. the work being carried out in our area on conservation & particullarly Bass protection does not need to be put to question.

Were you involved in the netting, Joe? Or did you witness it first-hand at the same time as John D? If "no" to either of those questions, then I fail to see how you can make that assertion as a solid fact. It's either assumption, opinion or hearsay.

tanglerat No bother kid I was in the area , did not see the net being hauled but I spoke to the lads in the village as I would do every evening . Let me try to enlighten ye all to the situation , for the past thirty years I have stood watching the lads herring fishing off the boathouse , and in fact the night in question was herring fishing myself . it is very rare that bass or oter species are even caught . that night in there was about 9 herring caught at the boathouse . these fishermen like myself have licenced boats and depend on fishing and angling for a living , even if they were arseholes they would want to be thick to net bass You can if you like take it from me that these boys are our protection , I invite anyone to shoot a net for herring with me and see how we get on with the bass Anyway if we want bass the lads down here have no bother catching with rod and line I wonder what those bass actually taste like I know the herring are nice