VERY IMPORTANT RE: I.F.S.A AGM

I think it has become accepted amongst most Boat and Shore anglers, that the way forward for picking teams to represent Ireland on the World stage has been qualifying from the Master Angler, and then a panel of anglers moving on to the fish-offs to pick the final team.

The Boat anglers, looking at the lead of the Shore clubs, have now instituted the same system, and the 1st fish-offs to pick a world boat team are being held at the end of the month.

It has come to my notice that a notice of motion has been sent in to the I.F.S.A agm looking to change the Master angler championships to a 3 day event, to pick the team from that format, and to do away with the fish-offs.
I believe the club involved are trying to get this passed using the excuse that because of current financial conditions, it is discrimination against anglers that cannot afford to pay for the extra cost of another weekend away and the extra entry fee involved for the fish-offs, and that this discrimination is against the constitution of the I.F.S.A.

I believe there are still a small number of anglers out there that think that because they pay their I.F.S.A membership, they are as entitled as anyone to qualify for an Irish team, I also believe there are a small number of anglers out there that think they might have some chance of qualifying over a masters weekend, but deep down know they will never get through the fish offs.

I think that to do away with the Fish-offs is a backward step, and will not help Ireland to pick better and better teams to represent the country.

If you are a forward thinking angler, who wants to see Ireland do well on the international stage, then I urge you to discuss this notice of motion with your mates and your club committee, and I would ask you to send a club member to the AGM on the 7th of November in the Ashling hotel opposite Heuston station and vote against this proposal, don't assume that there will be enough votes and that you don't need to go.

I look forward to read what other anglers on here think about this matter.
Dave

Well, I reckon it's an internal IFSA matter and as such this is not really the Forum for discussing how they order their business.

I'll go take a look at some things on-site, but this topic may have to be locked/deleted.

Which is annoying, but only fair, because there are lots and lots of things I'd like to say about the IFSA but won't on here.

I disagree and think this should remain. There is an air of mystery over some of the things up for debate this year at the ifsa agm and its not on.

Doing away with the fish offs in favour of a 3 day event is nonsense. To clarify, 10 anglers in one particular year and 12 from the boat MUST fish both. Thats out of 30 and 32 in total in the pool. Those already in the pool do not have to fish the masters should they so wish. On that basis, its minimal, a backward step and not to be entertained.

Thanks for the Reply Tanglerat, This is not an internal I.F.S.A matter, and at no stage am I suggesting that there is a problem with how the I.F.S.A order their business.
this is a notice of motion that has been proposed for the agm, and as most people on here are members of the ifsa, and as it was announced that this type of proposal was going forward just before the prizegiving for the MA boat it is now in the public domain.
I am not saying anything against the I.F.S.A, and this really doesn't have anything to do with them, their function is to allow proposals from the membership, allow a vote, and ratify and incorporate into their rules whatever the membership vote for.
This proposal (which is not from the ifsa but from a member club) is so important to the future of Irish team selection that wanted to bring it to the notice of as many people as possible, to instigate discussion, and hopefully encourage more anglers to go to the agm and vote on this.
I hope that you will not have to lock or delete this.
Thanks,
Dave

In my opinion the ifsa really make a f**k up of the majority of these major comps and im not only talking about master angler when I say that. It has all changed now its all just bit**ing and people moaning instead of having a well run comp on good evenly pegged venues and that way the best anglers will produce hense suprise suprise you get a strong team. Its all common sense no need to be twisting and turning things all the time.

The ifsa has messed me around in the past when it comes to Irish teams etc and at this stage im seriously thinking of just packing the whole lot in and I know others who think the same. I went a bit off topic i know

Just my opinion,

Ger Doran.

I hear what you're saying Dave, and from what you say I still reckon it's an internal IFSA matter. (My reckoning of "internal IFSA" incorporates both executive and membership. This is a matter for the IFSA. See what I mean?). I acknowledge that you did not suggest that they have a problem with how they order their own business. I wasn't suggesting that you did.

But SAI might decide that it is inappropriate to hold a discussion here on another organisation's activities a discussion which might be better served on the IFSA forums.

Anyhoo, I've sought direction from Admin/modsquad on this one. Personally, I'd rather see open debate on issues concerning anglers. Put the facts out in the open, let the facts speak for themselves and let everyone make up their own minds on the issues.

So, I too hope this thread remains.

Thanks Tanglerat, lets hope that the powers that be allow this to continue long enough for clubs to hear about this proposal and get a chance to debate it.

Thanks for the comments Ger, But I really am trying to get people just to discuss the topic I raised which has nothing to do with the ifsa, but rather a proposal going through for the membership to vote on, if we make disparaging comments about anyone or any orginisation than this topic will be closed down.

p.s pegging and venue selection etc for the masters and major comps are done by the host club not the ifsa, and your comments should be directed at those clubs.

Is it not true that no Notices of Motions have yet been received by the club secretaries to bring to their respective club commitee for guidance as to whether to support the relevant motions or not despite the AGM being scheduled for the 7th November 2009.Furthermore it is my understanding that the motions which were passed last year in support of a fish-off for the boat angling team were for a minimum of three years prior to any alternative selection system being re-introduced? Perhaps somebody could clarify that motion that was passed previously.

As for deleting or locking this forum I support Petekd and his comments,surely only positive suggestions can eminate from such a public forum once personalities are not discussed ?

PTP,
I believe that the notices of motion and other information relevant to the agm on the 7th were being received from yesterday, 18 days before the agm, and I don't think that gives enough clubs time to debate the issuse and mandate their delegates on how to vote. that is why I have posted on here.
Dave

This thread is only for debating/discussing the issues raised by Dave Jolly. Mods are keeping an active oversight of this thread.

IFSA bashing, off topic posts or general nonsense will not be tolerated, and will result in an immediate no notice ban until after the IFSA AGM.

You've been told.

The pool system will work wonders given time. It gives 10 new anglers a year entry into it to fish with the top lads. Its a tough place to be as I found out to my cost in the shore last year. However, despite a dismal weekend from my own point of view, it was great to be rubbing shoulders with and fishing against a field of TOP anglers. Im looking forward to dipping my toe in the boat fish offs this year and that will be an experience.

Every time in the past year or two I have had the good fortune (its not bad luck ) to draw one or two of the top boat men its been a case of learning more in a couple of hours than in months arsing around. Fishing against the lynches, robinsons, Barrys, Dreiers and Jollys of this world has done more for my game than any amount of practise and theory would have done. You raise your game significantly and you pick up little bits and pieces, rig styles, baiting tips etc all the time.

With the boat fish off pool theres another 12 lads this year will have that opportunity. It might take another visit or two into the pool before the standard is reached to stay there and compete for a place on the team as they are going to be hard won but think of the benefits at club level when these lads go back to the club scene, anyone with any interest will be able to pick up what was learned at the fish offs.

Compare that to reverting to the old master angler set up. A decent angler could quite conceivably avoid all the danger men and finish on or close to max points. That same angler when faced with a boat full of top names may well be found out. From the shore, given the much lower number of fish available and greater possibility of an inaccurate result, its even more vital that the top tier fish again to decide the result.

I dont buy into the extra cost factor either. For 2 thirds of the respective pools have the choice whether or not to fish the master angler. Its their decision. 1 third must fish both. Anglers fishing the masters trying to claim a fish off slot are well aware of whats ahead.
Putting an extra days fishing and an extra days boat hire, accommodation etc onto the masters for everyone is hardly a fair way to balance the books and 'save' money is it. I struggle to see where this notion has come from. The people who this actually affects, the top match anglers in this country will, I have no doubt, rise up against this motion.

You're givin me more credit than I deserve Pete, ranking me among the likes of Heiko and Dave who've
won world medals for their country!
Don't sell yourself short, we're starting to learn from you now !!!
Personally I'm delighted to see the open mindedness of the IFSA, I hope it continues because God
know's we're only trying to improve our abilities and that of the Irish teams. I don't agree with
proposals coming forward so quickly before the first boat fish-off has even taken place, but at
least we're seeing people proposing other approaches rather than bluntly condemning the one's
already in place.
I'd really have liked to see this coming fishoff taken place with 10 days of clear sky's prior to it
rather than rain soaked days leading up which will negatively affect the results. But, we can't have it all!

Yes Pete, you are giving Paul more credit than he deserves...... lol
But seriously, you make a very valid point About fishing at the top level Pete, the only way to learn how to compete with the best is to compete with the best, and one of the most important skills needed at the world level is observation, seeing what they do, and emulating them, there is no pride involved, every time I go out I learn something, and each time I have been lucky enough to fish at international level I have learnt a huge amount.
That's why the pool and Fish-offs are so important, getting a core group of anglers with huge experience and knowledge, fishing together, going away together, sharing tips and tactics, competing against each other, raising each others game etc.
and every year 12 new anglers get to join the pool, and hopefully learn a lot, As a matter of fact I would like to see the winners of the Findlater and the 4 provincal closed c'ships move into the pool every year, and pick both the home international and world boat from the placings in the Fish-offs, in the last 40 years at world boat level the Irish have won Gold team placing once, and bronze team placing once, thats 2 podium finishes out of a possible 120 podium finishes The sorry thing about it is that we now have boat anglers in this country good enough to get a podium finish most years, but our selection process has let us down, and now that we have moved on to the Fish-off system which will have a huge impact on our team quality, we have Backward thinking small minded anglers and clubs who want to see it revert to the old way ??????, thats why its imperative that this proposal is not carried.

Are you Dave Jolly.....?

No, I'm David Jolly.........

Mick Barry here,
I will agree with all that has been discussed here with Pete,PTP, Paul and David Jolly

I find that its is imperative that this motion is not carried and would urge club members to speak their opinions to their club secretary's and have this motion defeated.

over the past year or so a number of IFSA officials & IFSA members (boat anglers) put together a format to select the strongest possible team to represent our nation in the fairest of ways, this was brought to the floor and introduced over the last 2 years at the national AGM's. This year will be the first year it is tried and it was asked that it remain for 3 years to give it an opportunity to see if it improved our team results and standard of angling. Please allow it at least an opportunity to run its course, if in three years time the standards drop & and the results decrease i would gladly accept any proposal that see our national teams improve.

By the way best of luck to all who will fish in the Boat Fish Off's in cobh next weekend,

regards

Mick Barry

well lads some very good points in above posts.

i dont think that the system should be changed dont know much about the bpat side as our club is new to the boat competition side of things (hope we will get a few club members in there tho in the future),but the masters and the fish offs for the shore is a great system to get the best anglers,i think this shows by th quality of anglers in the pool and who made it in this year.i to think it would be a step back to change it so soon.

i think be big problem is the management issues and how the manager is picked.no point in having the best 5 anglers in the country and a manager who is using the trip as a holiday and is not a top angler him or herself,i dont think the manager should be picket from central council but the person from CC should be there as an over looker.
plus we dont have the money to spend like some other countries witch dont help.
maybe there should be a look at the management issue and a new motion go in next year.

I have to agree with you Barry, I have always felt that the angler that qualifies 6th in the fish offs, or the Master Angler as the case may be, should be the team manager, not only would this save the federation money, but it would always ensure that the team would have a reserve angler in case of an accident or illness which is not the case at the moment.
I believe that unless you are an manager of at least the same fishing ability of the rest of the team, you truly cannot understand what they are going through, what motivation they might need, and you certainly won't be able to work behind the scenes during the competition, observing, reporting, motivating, planning etc.
All the expertise in the organisation of the teams travel etc can be covered by the manager with help from all those in the federation who have vast experience.
I don't think the current system can continue much longer, and has to be addressed as a part of improving the teams.
Dave

Yes Pete, you are giving Paul more credit than he deserves...... lol
As a matter of fact I would like to see the winners of the Findlater and the 4 provincal closed c'ships move into the pool every year.

I think this is an excellent Idea!

I think the manager should at least have experience of fishing at an international matches and possibly experience of certain match venues - a bit easier where the home internationals are concerned.