cod take a battering

Report in the sunday times page 6 titled "cod to take a battering as sea heats up" makes intresting reading

heres an abridged version: quote :Cod and chips a staple of irish takeaways could be the next victim of global warming.
Because the seas around ireland are heating up due to climate change,cod and salmon, two of the most popular fish,could become a rarity.
temperature recordings from Malin head obervatory in donegal have found the atlantic ocean is half a degree warmer than expected.
Warming has been particulary strong during the last decade,with the warmest four years on record being 2007,2006,2005,and 2003,said Glenn Nolan of the Marine Institute.The seawater surface temp in the Atlantic rises and falls naturally over a cycle of about 60yrs.We have data going back to 1968 and over the fifty year period there has been an increase of about 0.9 of a degree, said Nolan."about half of that is a natural cycle, the other half is probably attributed to man made greenhouse gas emisions."
Nolan heads up the marine climate change research programme,funded by the govt,started last dec,it will run for 7 yrs.The research involves monitering around the coast of ireland and further out into the atlantic.
They have found that as well as the temp increase, the ammount of salt in the sea has been rising since the mid 90s, the warmer saltier conditions which are slowly making the atlantic more like the med are having a gradual but profound effect on the marine life and plants.Records show a gradual decline in cold water species such as cod, and a increase in warm water species.Long term changes in the temp and salt content of the sea arround ireland may force native species into deeper colder water and replace them with varieties that prefer warmer water, such as sea bass red mullet and john dory.

Thats the gist of the report, makes for intresting reading

sorry mate, load of BS, ive made my views on global and the greens clear here before, and am not getting into it again, but to be honest ive never seen so many small codling around my local marks and this years salmon run according to many of the anglers that have come into the shop has been one of best they've had for a good while

sorry mate, load of BS, ive made my views on global and the greens clear here before, and am not getting into it again, but to be honest ive never seen so many small codling around my local marks and this years salmon run according to many of the anglers that have come into the shop has been one of best they've had for a good while

Global climate, greens, overfishing who cares. There is less fish now.
How old are the anglers who think last year was a big salmon run?
Newbies are easily impressed, especially by a few salmon. But what was it really like 30 years ago (when I could catch 10 salmon in a day, and a good day was 3 - 4 eight pounders).
How many anglers can remember what it was like before the 1970s industrial fishing revolution and the decimation of fish stocks that began then and continues still? Not everyone keeps a fishing diary since then.

I suggest that you read Des Brennan's book "The Sea Angler afloat and Ashore" and see what Irish bass fisherman were catching then.

Look at the Specimen Fish Committee reports:

Salmon
1973 - 1975 4 salmon over 25lbs
2005 - 2007 1 salmon over 25lbs Salmon specimen weight reduced from 25lbs to 20lbs

Bass - protected for the last few years, the only species not collapsing
1973 - 1975 45 bass over 10lbs
2005 - 2007 52 bass over 10lbs

Cod -
1973 - 1975 17 over 25lbs
2005 - 2007 11 over 25lbs Cod specimen weight reduced from 25lbs to 20lbs

Haddock
1973 - 1975 21 over 7lbs
2005 - 2007 1 over 7lbs

Plaice
1973 - 1975 15 over 4lbs
2005 - 2007 2 over 4lbs

Whiting
1973 - 1975 19 over 3lbs
2005 - 2007 1 over 3lbs

Those catches were made by a tiny number of anglers. Todays anglers are more numerous, fishing better, and we catch less.

Compared with 30 years ago, the rivers and seas are almost emptied of commercial fish species. The slack has been taken up by other species increasing in numbers. The population explosion of jellyfish is a perfect example.
In the 1970s anglers called those species "rubbish fish". There was no rockling or torsk specimen category because nobody counted them.

It is clear to me that MORE protection is necessary, and it works in helping to undo the damage done by overfishing. Bass are present in similar numbers to 25 years ago ... a protected species for several years, and yes, warmer water may be helping them somewhat.

Global warming may make it worse, or not, we have a small part to play. But we CAN do something about overfishing here and now.

have no opinions on green issues either way eric just thought people might want to read the article,any chance of you sharing those marks where you get loads of codling,would gladly make a trip up just to catch one this year!! bit scarce down this side of the country!!

the codling are small like i said, max 35cm in length, but its good to see so many juniors around, not sure about your part of the country dogfish but as far as im aware theres never large numbers of codling on the west

oh, tubenfish, the lads, where probably about 40 to mid sixties

... the codling are small like i said, max 35cm in length, but its good to see so many juniors around ...

It is a good sign for sure. It seems to me whiting numbers are up too, but I haven't been out much so far, so first impressions based on a few trips may be wrong.

... oh, tubenfish, the lads, where probably about 40 to mid sixties

I'm mid forties myself Eric. I always felt (but couldn't prove) that I started fishing at or about the end of the best of it.
At least as far as the commercially valuable species were concerned. Those being the ones that got hammered most.

On the locality? I'm Dublin based. I seem to be getting more freshwater than saltwater fishing opportunities right now probably due to the fishing pals preferences. I always had a tendency to fish freshwater more in summer and sea more in winter. So I'm just getting back into the groove for the beach for the comng months.

I have to say those protection measures really do seem to be working for bass. Sometime I guess they will be extended to the other species in some form or other.

... the codling are small like i said, max 35cm in length, but its good to see so many juniors around ...

It is a good sign for sure. It seems to me whiting numbers are up too, but I haven't been out much so far, so first impressions based on a few trips may be wrong.

The scientists are saying something quite different about the cod stocks in the Irish sea. you can get very high concentrations of a species (localised) prior to complete collapse.

There are more technical sources but the bbc had a story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3945121.stm

How real is the threat to fish stocks?

Scientists say that we simply cannot carry on fishing in British waters at the level that we are doing at present.

They say despite attempts at reducing fishing quotas, and a decommissioning programme for fishing boats, cod stocks are still declining, and are now at such low levels that only a complete ban will save them from total collapse.


Many fishermen fear their industry faces collapse
According to Ices, there is still no clear sign that cod stocks in the North Sea, Irish Sea and west of Scotland are making a recovery. Cod stocks in the North Sea alone total about 46,000 tonnes - less than a third of the recommended minimum of 150,000 tonnes.

And it is not just cod. Ices is also asking for zero hake catches in the waters of southern Biscay and sharp cuts for plaice and sandeels.

Fishermen say they are still finding and catching plenty of fish, and the scientists are being over-pessimistic. If there were so few cod, say some campaigners, fishing vessels would not continue to see cod caught by mistake in their catch.

Indeed, some campaigners for fishermen say there are signs that cod populations may actually be increasing.

But several scientists think this could be partly due to "hyper-aggregation" - the tendency of a hunted population to crowd together for safety, providing easy targets for the crews.

[kinsebr]

I did a lot of research into this during the year. Nearly all of the information led me to believe that the climate currently has a relatively small influence on fish stocks. The reductions in stocks seem to be mainly due to overfishing.
The below is a quote from Brideges Weekly Trade News Digest:
['In 2003 the European Council of Fisheries Ministers adopted a long-term recovery plan for cod and 2004 quotas for cod, hake, whiting and other fish species. The annual three day Council meeting agreed on more lenient quotas than proposed by fisheries scientists who had suggested a total catch ban on cod and hake in certain areas, given that long-term recovery measures would be in place for the most threatened species. The council also agreed to limit the days at sea of the EU fishing fleet, and to improve monitoring to ensure that the fishing industry kept to the set quotas. While cod and hake quotas were kept at 2003 levels, the quotas for prawn and haddock, deemed in better health, were increased. The aim of the plan was to allow severely depleted stocks to recover at rates ranging from 5 percent to 30 percent per year. "The long-term aim is to keep fishing and if there are no fish, we cannot do that," said EU Fisheries Commissioner Franz Fischler.

The International Council for the Exploration of the Sea (ICES) and the EC Scientific, Technical and Economic Committee on Fisheries (STECF) had recommended a moratorium on several cod stocks, and green groups pointed to the fishery off eastern Canada where the cod became commercially extinct in the early 1990s and never has recovered. European cod stocks are now at only one-tenth of their 1970s levels. UK scientists at the Royal Society stressed that fishing quotas set by politicians were, on average, 20 to 30 percent too high and that "essentially this is condemning the fishing industry in 10 to 20 years time. Putting the short-term interests of the constituents before the long-term interests of the industry is not a solution."]

Obviously for political and social reasons, the European council did not take the advice of some of the most intelligent scientists and scientific organizations in the world, on implementing a Zero catch policy, instead proceeding with their long term Cod recovery plan. In 2008, 5 years later, the European Commission adopted a proposal to amend the Cod recovery plan. Scientific advice from ICES concluded that measures in the Cod recovery plan had been inadequate to reduce fishing pressure on Cod to the point where it would allow the stocks to recover. Of the four Cod stocks concerned, only North Sea Cod had shown some limited signs of recovery.

In their 2007 Stock Book, the Fisheries Science Services (FSS) advised that Cod stocks in the Irish Sea and West of Scotland have collapsed. FSS considers the most realistic rebuilding scenario requires a zero catch policy on both stocks. This policy should apply to Cod fisheries and also by-catch from other fisheries. In the Irish Sea, all available data suggests that the stock is expected to decline further in 2008. Failure to implement a zero catch policy on Cod will result in a prolonged rebuilding phase and a very high risk that the stocks will never recover. (sources: The Marine Institute, ICES)

Last edited by kinsebr on Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jeez brian you really need to get out, take a vacation or something way too much time on your hands there

good research br!

Girls, this one is a no-brainer. Warming has some impact, but its relatively minor as far as Ireland is concerned. It's overfishing by the GBs in trawlers, etc. No sympathy for them or their mortgages. Pure ignorance and greed.

If you believe otherwise you're either incredibly thick or Sarah Palin in drag.

GBs as in boats from britain - i always thought it was over 80% due to the french as when we signed up to the EU in the 70s - the aquis communitaire - required we basically handed over our fishing rights to the then EU members?

GBs as in Greedy Bas..... I would have thought.

No sympathy for them or their mortgages. Pure ignorance and greed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the commercials phased out and some kind of recovery taking place to the stocks we have.

But you can't make statements like that, it's not the individual trawler owners fault, the industy has been mismanaged for a longtime, they are as entitled as anyone to make a living and if they are within quotas they are perfectly compliant with the law. The government should provide them with an alternative.

By that rationale should anyone who works in a bank be sacked and we should have "No sympathy for them or their mortgages" because their industry has been mismanaged?

YE they should be sacked my pension lost nearly a quarter of its value now i wont be able to do as much fishing as i had planned to do in my 60's.

now i wont be able to do as much fishing as i had planned to do in my 60's.

By the way, the way the average lifespan is increasing retirement age will be heading back towards 70 (if you want a decent pension)

the only thing ill be using a rod for in my 70's will be to hold me up i think.

i agree with you alby, i know a commercial fisherman, it breaks his heart to throw dead fish back into the sea,he would rather see quotas by weight, rather than by species,and he would like to see a ban on diamond mesh nets too!!!so not all boat owners are irresponsible GBs!!!

I agree with what is being said here about the depletion of stocks.

Could someone draft up a petition to send to both parliments telling them to setup minimium size limits for all fish stocks as they have done with Bass as it seems to helping the stocks recover.

We all do alot of talking about how bad things are and how we should do something but how many of us do anything? I include myself in this I am not trying to have a go at anyone.

If someone could draft a good petition and post its link on this sites and others like it, send the links around by email it would not be long getting alot of support. It only takes a minute to add your name to something like that and it would be a good starting point. Alot of people have good intentions and care deeply about the fishing stocks, not many have the time and know how of what to do about it.