Sea Bass and Gilthead Sea Bream research

Hello guys
I am new to this site, and I’m writing because I need your help!
I’m working in UCD, carrying out a research on the Sea bass and the Gilt head sea bream around Ireland and UK. My aim is to assess the stock in this area to manage the species in the right way.
I already have samples from the Irish Sea (Wexford). I’d need some samples from the north and the west of Ireland now, in order to get a clear picture.
I do genetics, so all I need is a small fin-clip (or few scales) and nothing else.
What I’m asking is just the possibility to be there during a competition, for instance, and fin-clip what you catch.
Do you guys think you can help me?

the master angler competition is on in the mullaghmore area of sligo in a few weeks time. cant say how many bass will be caught though but id be surprised if none were caught, considering there will be over 100 anglers fishing.

Going to be doing some fishing in the west over the next few weeks, if a bass raises its head (very sceptical) I will take a sample. Just out of interest what needs to be done with the fin after it has been clipped so that the sample clipping doesn't degrade?

P.s. I've just finished a masters through research in the Biology and Environmental science section at UCD. I have one major tip for you! Get your literature review done as soon as possible, as its a major pain in the butt.

Going to be doing some fishing in the west over the next few weeks, if a bass raises its head (very sceptical) I will take a sample. Just out of interest what needs to be done with the fin after it has been clipped so that the sample clipping doesn't degrade?

P.s. I've just finished a masters through research in the Biology and Environmental science section at UCD. I have one major tip for you! Get your literature review done as soon as possible, as its a major pain in the butt.

actually the finclip needs to be stored in absolute ethanol straight away.
If it's not a prob for you, scales will do as well, and you can simply wrap them in paper and put them in an envelope with date and location.

Thanks for the extra-advice ;)
I've just started the 3rd yr of the PhD... Literature review done. And I completely agree with you about it!

the master angler competition is on in the mullaghmore area of sligo in a few weeks time. cant say how many bass will be caught though but id be surprised if none were caught, considering there will be over 100 anglers fishing.

I'll definitely check it then!
Thanks a lot!

if i catch a bass up north, where do i send the scales?

if i catch a bass up north, where do i send the scales?

optimistic MC, thats what i like 8) 8)

This is the group Ilaria is involved in
http://www.ucd.ie/zoology/marbee/index.html

if i catch a bass up north, where do i send the scales?

optimistic MC, thats what i like 8) 8)

its a big if, so dont expect any :lol:

Welcome to the forum Ilaria.

Some forum members may be worried that the information they provide to you could be exploited by the commercial sector. You might be able to re-assure them if you mentioned the funding sources and collaborators on your research project.

if i catch a bass up north, where do i send the scales?

Ilaria Coscia

School of Biological & Environmental Science

Science and Education Research Centre (West)

University College Dublin

Belfield-Dublin 4

Ireland


Thanks MC! Good luck and fingers crossed :wink:

Welcome to the forum Ilaria.

Some forum members may be worried that the information they provide to you could be exploited by the commercial sector. You might be able to re-assure them if you mentioned the funding sources and collaborators on your research project.

Sorry, you're completely right.
here are some details: I am in the 3rd yr of my PhD here in UCD. I'm funded by IRCSET - the Irish Research Council for Science, Engineering and Technology.
For my research project I'm in contact with people from the Central Fisheries Board and I've worked with the Marine Institute as well (joined the annual Sea Bass Survey in 2006).

Through the link that jd posted you can get to my home page (let me tell you that is not really detailed... :roll: ): http://www.ucd.ie/zoology/marbee/ilaria_coscia.html

please ask me if you want to know anything else :wink:

Lads,
I've spoken to Ilaria very briefly a while back. She is working in the same group as Ed Farrell who is doing work on the Smoothounds.
All above board.

hi

did my own phd in genetics so we have that in common.

how do you find the quality of DNA from the scales is? is it good enough for PCR? is a fin clip preferable?

as an aside to my actual project a while back i was looking at doing gDNA extraction from pike scales, but found the quality wasnt always great. I never spent much time on it though as it was just for my own interest. i wonder would fins have been the better option.

the research sounds interesting. i will keep a tube of ethanol in my bag should i be doing any bassing.

Gilthead Bream,
Whats the exact purpose of the survey, surely there is hardly any evidence of a sustainable population of Giltheads in Irish waters based on current catch reports. In addition I would be amazed if any turned up along the northwest or western seaboard north of Kerry. Can you provide us with more information and a possible link to the project details.

Bass.

Again similar as above, if you provided an update and more details on the project you would be likely to increase the amount of interest in the project and therefore hopefully more samples for site members. Keep the site updated on your progress. I don't know if your aware but probably are, that there is a school of thought (excuse the pun) that the Bass in the NW are coming across from Scottish waters, rather than moving up along the west coast. It would be great if you could answer this question as it would explain why there is now so few Bass up there compared to the 1970's and why they have not recovered like they have further south. Those Scottish fish are subjected to extensive pair trawling off the west coast of Scotland all the way down towards the Bristol Channel. Obviously the fish in the south are also subject to some of this pressure but as the are a resident population close to Irish waters they probably have more protection. If you can identify isolated populations that would be very interesting. In addition should you not also be looking for lenght and age data on these fish.
Again good luck and any more data on the objectives and methodology of the project would be welcomed.
Good Luck

I would be amazed if any turned up along the northwest or western seaboard north of Kerry

Be amazed drseafish! I saw juvenile gilthead caught during a beach seine survey at a beach in Co. Galway last Summer. You can never take anything for granted. Based on catches of giltheads in the south-west for the previous five years, every year there have been 1-group fish, suggesting that there is already a sustainable spawning population in Irish waters. Our knowledge of this species in Irish waters is obviously very limited so hopefully studies such as Ilaria's will help rectify that.

Interesting ideas on the bass. However, previous studies have shown that there may not be much genetic diversity between bass from different populations in North west Europe. Declan Tobin (NUIG) analyzed the genetics of bass from the south of Ireland, England and France, and did not find any genetic differences between these areas. That is not to say that they are not discrete populations, they are just not genetically different. I have no idea how you could determine conclusively the presence of different populations, except perhaps a large scale tagging programme?

p.s. I have no issue with taking a few tubes of ethanol along fishing with me. Will give some to my brother too. That's assuming Ilaria pays the postage?

hi

did my own phd in genetics so we have that in common.

how do you find the quality of DNA from the scales is? is it good enough for PCR? is a fin clip preferable?

as an aside to my actual project a while back i was looking at doing gDNA extraction from pike scales, but found the quality wasnt always great. I never spent much time on it though as it was just for my own interest. i wonder would fins have been the better option.

the research sounds interesting. i will keep a tube of ethanol in my bag should i be doing any bassing.

Thanks a million Adam ;)
I'll send you a PM about the DNA extraction (or the admins will kill me :mrgreen: )

Drseafish you're very prepared :D

Gilthead Bream,
Whats the exact purpose of the survey, surely there is hardly any evidence of a sustainable population of Giltheads in Irish waters based on current catch reports. In addition I would be amazed if any turned up along the northwest or western seaboard north of Kerry. Can you provide us with more information and a possible link to the project details.

I would be amazed too of course...in the same way I was when I heard that a GH was caught in the Baltic Sea :wink:
Surely there's evidence of increasing presence of Gilthead around Ireland, probably following the increasing temperature of seawaters. Where do you get your info when you say that "there is hardly any evidence of a sustainable population of Giltheads in Irish waters based on current catch reports"?
We don't know anything about this species (in Ireland) yet...and that's why we're trying to study it.

Bass.

Again similar as above, if you provided an update and more details on the project you would be likely to increase the amount of interest in the project and therefore hopefully more samples for site members. Keep the site updated on your progress. I don't know if your aware but probably are, that there is a school of thought (excuse the pun) that the Bass in the NW are coming across from Scottish waters, rather than moving up along the west coast. It would be great if you could answer this question as it would explain why there is now so few Bass up there compared to the 1970's and why they have not recovered like they have further south. Those Scottish fish are subjected to extensive pair trawling off the west coast of Scotland all the way down towards the Bristol Channel. Obviously the fish in the south are also subject to some of this pressure but as the are a resident population close to Irish waters they probably have more protection. If you can identify isolated populations that would be very interesting. In addition should you not also be looking for lenght and age data on these fish.
Again good luck and any more data on the objectives and methodology of the project would be welcomed.
Good Luck

Unfortunately I cannot put too many details about my progress on the webpage for two reasons:
1- I just have preliminary results, so I'm not in the position to state anything on the genetic stock structure of irish bass
2- I'm not allowed to publish results in any way before they're published on a scientific journal :(

About bass migration from Scotland: I'd love to be able to answer that question, but in order to do that I need samples :wink: that's basically what my PhD is about.
..and yes, I'm trying to collect both length and age data. The more the better.

Based on catches of giltheads in the south-west for the previous five years, every year there have been 1-group fish, suggesting that there is already a sustainable spawning population in Irish waters.

Indeed Sonaghan. we have a paper in press about that. There is actually evidence of settled population in Wexford.

Interesting ideas on the bass. However, previous studies have shown that there may not be much genetic diversity between bass from different populations in North west Europe. Declan Tobin (NUIG) analyzed the genetics of bass from the south of Ireland, England and France, and did not find any genetic differences between these areas. That is not to say that they are not discrete populations, they are just not genetically different. I have no idea how you could determine conclusively the presence of different populations, except perhaps a large scale tagging programme?

True. I met Declan, and we talked about it. He didn't find any genetic variation, that's why I'm using more genetic markers, so that the analysis is more powerful.

Mark-recapture studies have been carried out and they all show that the bass spend winter in the spawning grounds (English Channell) and then move up north to the feeding grounds during summer. No strong signal of genetic diff was found, but data suggest anyway that thwe irish one is a separate population.

Sonaghan, if you don't mind carrying few tubes along with you, I can send them... and yes, Ilaria pays the postage of course :)

No need to send them Ilaria, I have both tubes and ethanol. The problem may be the bass and giltheads, but I'll see what I can do! In which journal is your paper on giltheads in press? I'd be very interested in reading it when it comes out. :)