Bass being commercially exploited again!?

They being dumped fish dead back in to the water?

Frankly, I’m not feeling competent at all in this matter as I’m only trying to build some knowledge about the issue now. So any posts contributing to the discussion are more than welcome.

They being dumped fish dead back in to the water?

Hi Tommy

The area that the Irish commercials wish to retain and land sea bass caught south of (51.30’N) in area VII. This area is approx 50 km off the SE coast of Ireland and the UK advice for 2007 states that this stock is in a healthy state. Presumably vessels traveling that distance will be of a size that makes them subject to satellite monitoring?

hi sand tiger , its a pity you didnt share your kernels of wiseness from the start rather than taking the p%ss out of a subject most of us on here take seriously. Its all well and good talking about satellite monitoring of the presumably larger boats it would take to fish the considered area but we all know that even satellite monitoring of individual fish wouldnt be enough to stop the glut that would ensue the decision to allow bass to be landed and sold in the Irish republic.

just looking at the list of signatures on the petition seems desmond tutu, ken dodd, micheal owen, jessica rabbit and her good friend rampant rabbit are getting pretty stirred up about the subject

A member of the World Sea Fishing forum called 'SandTiger' (How about Desmond Tutu, I've just added him at number 279?) was responsible for putting up the piss take names.


Real Mature Lad ..

Many thanks Danny M, obviously the point was lost on you...

So I'll spell it out for you. The epetition is meaningless due to the fact that any old noddy can sign it, any number of times from a singular email account. Do you really think your politicians are going to take any more notice of a dodgy epetition than they are of a email template that they repeatedly receive, ad nauseam?

Hope that helps

Hi,

Reading through the posts two points stand out.

1. JimH is right regarding real active level of interest on this thread. To date, 1959 views, 84 replies, translating to about 20 people actively taking an interest on this site.
2. A petition is not the way forward but an individual representation is.

The way forward on this issue is for all interested stakeholders and vested interest groups to outline the socio economic value of the Atlantic Bass resource, presently and in the future, to the Irish Nation.

That means a thought out representation from every interested angler, tackle shop, angling club, angling guide, bait digger, accommodation providor, IFSA, EFSA, Irish Bass, etc.

Minister of State Conor Lenihen has been assigned this brief so write to him at the department of Marine, Energy, and Natural Resources. Also, write to your local TD's.

To date, I know that a number of the regional fisheries boards and the CFB have made detailed submissions advising against the proposed opening of the Atlantic Bass fishery.

This has to spread wider, setting up a coordination group is a way forward.

I will have a template outlining socio economic information available at the Swords angling show next month. I will be handing it out and advising people to write in there own words a response to the minister based on the information given.

Regards....

Hi,

Reading through the posts two points stand out.

1. JimH is right regarding real active level of interest on this thread. To date, 1959 views, 84 replies, translating to about 20 people actively taking an interest on this site.
2. A petition is not the way forward but an individual representation is.

The way forward on this issue is for all interested stakeholders and vested interest groups to outline the socio economic value of the Atlantic Bass resource, presently and in the future, to the Irish Nation.

That means a thought out representation from every interested angler, tackle shop, angling club, angling guide, bait digger, accommodation providor, IFSA, EFSA, Irish Bass, etc.

Minister of State Conor Lenihen has been assigned this brief so write to him at the department of Marine, Energy, and Natural Resources. Also, write to your local TD's.

To date, I know that a number of the regional fisheries boards and the CFB have made detailed submissions advising against the proposed opening of the Atlantic Bass fishery.

This has to spread wider, setting up a coordination group is a way forward.

I will have a template outlining socio economic information available at the Swords angling show next month. I will be handing it out and advising people to write in there own words a response to the minister based on the information given.

Regards....

hi sand tiger , its a pity you didnt share your kernels of wiseness from the start rather than taking the p%ss out of a subject most of us on here take seriously. Its all well and good talking about satellite monitoring of the presumably larger boats it would take to fish the considered area but we all know that even satellite monitoring of individual fish wouldnt be enough to stop the glut that would ensue the decision to allow Bass to be landed and sold in the Irish republic.

Good morning seanie35

The impression I'm getting is that the Irish commercial trawls are currently catching Bass in the area that they want to retain them in but due to Irish legislation are having to discard them? If this is the case it is not only a wasteful practice but since discards are not recorded then could distort the picture of stock populations in that area.

Whilst I can see your concerns, that by relaxing legislation for wild Bass to be sold in the Republic, then blackfish caught from illegal boats fishing closer to your shore and sold at the back doors of restaurants may occur. Since fish traceability schemes have been introduced here blackfish is pretty much unheard off. Do you have traceability schemes in Ireland?

hi sand tiger , its a pity you didnt share your kernels of wiseness from the start rather than taking the p%ss out of a subject most of us on here take seriously. Its all well and good talking about satellite monitoring of the presumably larger boats it would take to fish the considered area but we all know that even satellite monitoring of individual fish wouldnt be enough to stop the glut that would ensue the decision to allow Bass to be landed and sold in the Irish republic.

Do you have traceability schemes in Ireland

being honest sandtiger im sure there is but wouldnt be familiar with it unless its along the lines of say beef/pork traceability

being honest sandtiger im sure there is but wouldnt be familiar with it unless its along the lines of say beef/pork traceability

A similar scheme was introduced in ROI in 2007 and is a very effective means of tracing where fish have originated from. See page 2 here - www.mfa.gov.uk/publications/documents/fishfocus5.pdf

That is a very good thing and has done a lot to prevent blackfish problems here, since its introduction in 2005.

You mentioned concerns over a glut of Bass coming into Ireland if this proposal went ahead. I've just been reading up on your Bass Protection legislation and am quite surprised to note that there is nothing to prevent me or any other person from a member state from towing a trawl through Irish Waters (with the exception of the area that is classed as a Biologically Sensitive Area) landing in my registered country, then importing the Bass back into ROE.

If the Irish fleet are catching Bass as part of a mixed fisheries trawl in what is effectively English waters and scientific data states that the stock population is good, then I'd imagine Irish Bass Anglers would need to mount a very compelling argument as to why they should not be allowed to land?

I'd imagine Irish Bass Anglers would need to mount a very compelling argument as to why they should not be allowed to land

this is where we are at, maybe im wrong but an epetition is better than no petition and as comments from ashley, patk, jimh and others suggest a delegation of stakeholders in the leisure angling sector should be formed to meet with the decision makers at goverment level and put forward that compelling case

I'd imagine Irish Bass Anglers would need to mount a very compelling argument as to why they should not be allowed to land

this is where we are at, maybe im wrong but an epetition is better than no petition and as comments from ashley, patk, jimh and others suggest a delegation of stakeholders in the leisure angling sector should be formed to meet with the decision makers at goverment level and put forward that compelling case

Good luck. I have a jaundiced view of e-petitions having set an official Parliamentary one (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/rsa-eu-proposal/) that got 3,600 signatures and not even a response from Parliament after it closed

I'd imagine Irish Bass Anglers would need to mount a very compelling argument as to why they should not be allowed to land

this is where we are at, maybe im wrong but an epetition is better than no petition and as comments from ashley, patk, jimh and others suggest a delegation of stakeholders in the leisure angling sector should be formed to meet with the decision makers at goverment level and put forward that compelling case

Good luck. I have a jaundiced view of e-petitions having set an official Parliamentary one (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/rsa-eu-proposal/) that got 3,600 signatures and not even a response from Parliament after it closed

cant help but feel that our one will draw a similar response but inaction would be definately fatal to the cause, tried to sign your petition but its closed......desmond tutu

cant help but feel that our one will draw a similar response but inaction would be definately fatal to the cause, tried to sign your petition but its closed......desmond tutu

Love it.

You wouldn't have been able to sign as an ROI citizen. Sadly that was the trade-off I had to accept when going for the Parliamentary e-petition. This is from their FAQ:

What will happen to my petition once it is finished?

Once your petition has closed, usually provided there are 500 signatures or more, it will be passed to officials who work for the Prime Minister in Downing Street, or sent to the relevant Government department for a response.

Every person who signs such a petition will receive an email detailing the Government's response to the issues raised.

I see there is a closed season for anglers targeting Bass. Presumably, there are still a lot of accidental catches during the closed season?

3500 signatures would be a bit more impressive over here with the smaller population wether its ignored by the powers that be or not. there is accidental catches of bass during the close season but the majority of anglers would carefully release them. You could always help the cause by posting for support on wsf if ya could , every bit helps

3500 signatures would be a bit more impressive over here with the smaller population wether its ignored by the powers that be or not. there is accidental catches of Bass during the close season but the majority of anglers would carefully release them. You could always help the cause by posting for support on wsf if ya could , every bit helps

I'll see if Jeffery, Bungle & Zippy are still around if you think it will help

I'm probably being a bit dense, but I'm still struggling to understand why it would actually be a problem? Is it a fear of the floodgates opening, type thing?

Slightly off topic, but interesting reading, nonetheless...

http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1475C ... _Dec09.pdf

http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1F1CC ... ok2009.pdf

Hi there,
from my own personal point of view my main fear of commercial bass fishing opening up again here inireland is that the culprits who are currently breaking the law by netting inshore bass and EXPORTING ABROAD on the qt,will be able to concentate more efforts in wiping out inshore very localised bass stocks within the boundaries of the law,quiet simply it would be a complete disaster and all inshore stocks would be disamated verquickly.A bass takes a 4 to 5 years to reach an age where they can reproduce.
Do you honestly think that it would'nt make a differance to have it legalised again i beg to differ.We would be going back to the late 70's and 80's when bass were like hens teeth in certain areas but thankfully thanks to the ban some of these areas are starting to show signs of recovery others have not and never will.
If it reopens i don't think many anglers will bother to visit ireland if only the bass had the same protection and respect that salmon have been afforded eventhough the boost they bring tothe economy from visiting anglers to certain areas is possibly on a par or worth more to the tourist economy than the other silver fellas.
Now im off to sign this petition even if it falls on deaf ears,as i believe its a no brainer from an anglers point of view

Expecting ordinary anglers to read, disseminate and understand a 21 page document of such complexity is an aspiration at most. Further more, any interpretation of the implications of how such data might be used to manipulate commercial fisheries is frankly beyond the interest of many people.

This is NOT a negative reflection of anglers

The availability of such information and its subsequent confident use and interpretation demonstrates how well organised some groups continue to be in relation to their own ends.

Anglers don’t need to be dumbfounded by pages and pages of ‘extrapolations’ nor do they need to feel stupid if they aren’t aware of ALL of the facts or their interpretations and implications of data revealed suddenly pulled out of some rabbits hat.

But anglers as stakeholders do need an awareness and an openness that requires them to know what’s going on and at least to understand the fundamentals and the effects and influences on the fisheries that we all share. But there is a gap.

That gap exists in Ireland today as a complete lack of any clear, defined and concise plan of development or information sharing and communication between many similar bodies related to angling.
This gap should not be simply seen as a necessary operational function of some organisation/s that simply fulfils a role of developing planning that never gets implemented - but a basic social need that needs to be demanded by anglers and measured – in recognition that there are often better ways to manage and protect a resource.

The big emotion that everybody feels in relation to this is issue is ‘fatal acknowledgement’ and the words that come to mind are ‘it will be ruined or destroyed’. Then its followed by resignation or just plain old acceptance

Don’t deny that this is what you have said to yourself…..’there wont be a fish left’ – Marlinman is right

Its quite simple. Everybody knows that ANY relaxation will simply have the species on its knees in a short space of time in this country as the fish will be caught on all coasts at any range – the law will be interpreted as a free for all – its bloody bad enough as it is. That’s the kind of society we live in – ‘Ahhh sure its only a few fish’

Simply because the vast majority dont now any better - the gap.

This issue wont just go away – but until anglers realise that they are the ones that can change things by doing something together it will be back again – a digital signature requires some effort – sit at your desk and donate five seconds of your time yes it’s a start – digital signatures didn’t stop drift net fishing – action and work did!

Its not all about socio-economic factors its also simply about what you want from your fishing, its an anglers resource too!

well said Jim .my local angling shop is putting up a poster to get people to signe.in our area sandymount D 4 we have some good counselors who i have talked to re this matter and said the voting power of anglers is very large ,and if this matter was raised to all local counselors it would go up the the political ladder from locals and these are the next TDs in our rocky government .so start at the bottom at local level as well as at the top

[RockHunter]

and if this matter was raised to all local counselors it would go up the the political ladder from locals and these are the next TDs in our rocky government .so start at the bottom at local level as well as at the top

That is a good idea - I have already sent an email to the relevant ministers a couple of weeks ago. However, on reflection, I think I should have taken the time to print out a letter and post it rather than sending an email. So far I received one reply.
But if this issue is brought to the attention of all your local TDs and councilors it would do no harm.

I signed the ePetition but that is probably the least effective method of presenting our cause.

Letters (not emails) to the relevant ministers, your local TDs and councilors may be the best way forward. In my view the main point to emphasise are:

This proposal will undoubtly have a very detrimental effect on the in shore bass population due to increased illegal netting and that this will have serious effect on angling tourism - any gain to the economy by allowing limited commercial bass fishing will be substantially outweighted by the loss to the tourism and hospitality sectors of the economy.

By protecting our bass and allowing their population to increase and marketing this as a recreational resource there is potential for great growth of the sea angling tourism as our bass fisheries are the envy of European anglers.
But they could be wiped out in a very short space of time if commercial bass fishing is allowed.

Last edited by RockHunter on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think Tiggs is being misunderstood here (nothing new in that )

The point he is making is so far this is all just an out pouring of emotions that mean nothing to a politician. It is lacking any real planing or direction and more importantly factual evidence and it is going nowhere fast, if at all...

What is required is for anglers and other relevant bodies to form a national group to present the case properly, It is all very well to say things like a bass is worth as much as a salmon... excellent fodder for a tuned in politician of commercial fishing rep who is going to reply with but isn't the commercial salmon fishery still open Or better still ask you to produce figures to substantiate that claim...

Don't forget you're dealing with politicians who most of wouldn't know a bass from a tin of tuna, facts n figures are what the politicians require.

Politicians of all colours will attend such a groups meeting if invited

I'm afraid e-petitions ain't worth the paper they're written on

I agree on the value (or lack of) of the petition. Especially when you have muppets signing it as Desmond Tutu, or Bungle
However, I think a co-ordinated campaign of writing to politicians to outline our concerns is of much more importance. I have already written to two govt TDs in our area, both of whom have responded and sent on my representation to the minister. Got a reply from the minister's office today so it does go up the line and no doubt a lot of letters will get his attention.

Politicians are not stupid, they recognise the voting power of a large number of anglers, so use your democratic voice and get writing. It only takes a few minutes to write a letter and email it to your local TDs. Writing to the minister will only get his attention, writing to lots of TDs will get their attention too and they won't want to lose local votes. And the minister's office will still receive your letter.