Cause for concern?

Ok I think we should clear up a few points:

1. Fishing -it's called fishing, not catching. By it's very nature it's unpredictable.

2. Red tides - Donnyb is 100% right in stating that this current algal bloom is entirely natural. It happens from time to time. It orginated offshore but the prevailing N and NW winds we have been subjected to this "summer" (if you can call it that) have pushed it on shore and this has affect fish communites badly particularly on the west and north-west coasts.

3. Illegal netting - this has without doubt increased in activity in recent years. Hard times will result in people resorting to quick and easy forms of income and unfortunately bass netting seems to be one of these. All we can do as anglers is to be increasingly vigilant and report EVERYTHING suspicious.

4. Commercial fishermen - to be honest, I can understand why commercial fishermen are angry about being barred from fishing for Irish bass. UK, French and Spanish boats can fish away outside the 12 mile limit and land Irish bass into other ports but our own fishermen are not allowed to touch them. However, rather than open the fishery to Irish boats, the ideal solution would be to ban ALL nations from fishing for Irish bass but this would be impossible to enforce given the huge area covered and the fact that it would be impossible to determine where the bass onboard was caught within Irish waters or not. Also, when you come on websites like this and see picutres of large bass, it gets fairly difficult to argue that stocks are in trouble.

5. Bait fish - it is now widely accepted that the cold water current off the Irish coast is heading further and further north (just have a look at the catches of mackeral in Icelandic and Faroese waters - from 0 tonnes to 300,000 tonnes each in the past few years). However, there are still bait fish around. Only last weekend was I out spearfishing and saw numerous shoals of sandeels and a few shoals of bass too.

Sorry, I read it last night and intended to reply but I was making homemade pizza

Two points though raised above. In the uk small fish are usually caught from the shore as bigger fish are usually caught in deeper water.
In Ireland bigger fish are caught in shallow water an smaller fish are caught in deeper water.
For instance I know of a 13lb Bass yesterday that was speared in UK by a freediver in 18m, I also heard a 12lb Bass was angled recently locally in very shallow water.
I rarely see small Bass when I dive but once last summer I was surrounded by a large shoal of bout 40-50 small schoolies in a place in east cork.
My impression is there are nurseries where schoolies grow and they they will shoal together in deeper water for safety and as they get bigger they hunt more so on their own and in shallower water (opposite to UK)

Another point, I think I read a paper before about how Bass go offshore to deeper water over winter but they always return to the same bay or cobh.
There is some studies on them being territorial... I can't find it now (after a quick look) but I saw another few interesting articles
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3604000190
http://www.springerlink.com/content/29tq239eb783ay21/ (effects of temperature and salinity....)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3605001670

Also this is a very famous paper on Irish Bass, it is from the late 60's but the work is still referenced as important in more modern studies
http://sabella.mba.ac.uk/2503/01/Occure ... reland.pdf
another
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... id=4320684


Another interesting paper describing the effects of salinity
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8685900900

Going back to your question beachbuddy...
I actually went out for a dive yesterday. I have to say that this is maybe only my third time out looking for Bass (since march) so I've not been out much this year.
But I went to a particular holding area in east cork which is just amazing. with good visibility I could easily see 30-40 large fish over 4lb (seldom anything smaller).
I got there with an offshore wind and swell so the water was pretty flat, and when I hoped in it was really clear, bout 6-8m so I reckoned I should see a lot.
Within about 30 seconds I spotted my fish mullet of about 4lb, and I stayed still and called him over (make a gutteral noise in your throat and their curiosity brings them over to investigate) as usually you will find Bass swimming with them, but only 2 more mullet of the same size came.
I wont bore you with details but that continued for the next 90 minutes. In this location I normally see 4 or 5 Bass for every mullet, but yesterday I saw no Bass and about 10+ mullet.
Now I did notice some other weird things...
1. there was a lot less weed out there that would be expected for this time of year. Much of it had been washed up over the last few weeks and even more is suspended in the water as its being broken down decomposed. Bass hold up in this weed for protection and you will always see them lying on the bits of sand between the weed. It hides them from things like seals. So without this cover... would they stay? Mullet on the other hand do not have this habit.
2. As mentioned there is still some rotting seaweed in some of the places I would expect to see Bass, specifically up the gullies, and I'm almost positive there is a smell from it which puts off fish.
3. Surprisingly there is quite a substantial plankton bloom going on.... I say surprising as these mainly occur in late april/may around the time basking sharks come in... so getting one around Aug is odd..
4. There was a much bigger number of jellyfish than normal including many siphonophores which is unusual in itself. Also there was (as others have reported) a large number of baitfish. I met another fisherman on a boat an he was telling me there was a lot less pollock/macks at this spot than has been in the last week or two.
5. Water temp here was 13'c but temps of 15 and 16 are being reported from west cork and wexford, so maybe it was just this spot and offshore wind combo.

I have to say I normally go to this spot at low tide and yesterday it was mid tide on the drop so the Bass might still be there on the low, only I didn't see them at mid tide.

Only observations but there is a lot more going on in the water than just an absence of Bass.

Oh ya... spider crabs were at it like rabbits... everywhere I looked they were on top of each other doing the hokey pokey with each other

Thanks a mill for that Donnyboy,your description sounds breathtaking with the underwater world.On a side note always wanted to take up scuba diving but felt it would remove the element of suprise when i would have a rod in the hand.
For what its worth i really hope that "your" larger fish are'nt the biggest in that area.I was more hoping to hear about the larger 8lb plus fish which i feel are now a very scarce commodity down our way unless serious luck and effort are applied.
Very interesting to hear about the spider crabs as i would have expected that kind of thing much earlier in the "summer".The weed thing is also weird as a couple of estuary marks i fish are practically unfishable at the moment due to the cabbage stuff.In previous years this would have been more prevalent in may/june.The flatfish are non existant in these areas at the minute but loads of seatrout ,and tiny schoolies moving in with the flood tides,which is great to see.
Another observation ive seen is that with the last couple of tides when ive been out there has been very little life in the water,absolutely nothing from shrimps to small postage stamps scuttling away.Needlessly to say the general fishing on these tides has been poor apart from doggies.
No real scientific evidence of reasons from myself ,but looking at how weird the fishing has been the past few months it would be silly to rule out natural reasons.This isnt uncommon with fishing over the years,but it always went full circle freakish weather or not.So where have all the large numbers of bass that our isle is world reknowned for gone the last few years.With all the individuals who have taking up fishing for "seabass /BASS,the last few years one would be expecting to hear of numbers of fish been caught very regularly judging by the amount of anglers out our waterways that in years past you never met.These new anglers to the mysical world of bassing are struggling to meet fish now as well.Afew seasons ago these anglers told of their great feats of catching a few silver fellas through the report section here and to anyone else they would meet.The excitement was palatable hearing stories relayed again.
Also on the big fish stories again ,when was the last time anyone heard of someone old or young just about able to cast out and yet they hook into the fish of a lifetime by anyones standards.I for one have'nt heard a story like this for a few years now and by god they would be a regular occurance in the past.
The supposedly large shoals of bass of all sizes that due to round the clock protection that allegedly inhabit our coastline are no longer as prevalent as they once were are most definately on the decline in places that they historically have always been present.
As ive already stated the local illegal bass netters down here have recently acquired nets with much smaller mesh sizes,why?Because i'll tell you they have decimated the bigger fish stocks and are now targetting the smaller [easier to sell] bass as thats what they have left to target in any sort of numbers.The irony is all this has happened to a "protected" species,dont make me laugh.
This is my last post on this post[thank goodness i hear you all say ]and really any further bass posts for that matter as i believe that the recent glorious bass resurgance has been totally underminned by greedy sonsos.Until real action is taken by the authorities NOW and the finger taken out once and for all then what could have been great will be just a distant memory just like the last decent summer we had.
Now i read about another upcoming battle with the commercial fleet to remove whats left of the inshore bass stocks,maybe Donnyboy i will have to take up scubadiving afterall just to see a fish of any type in their natural habitat.
Jazus i need my happy pills quick.
Tight lines all and best of luck in the bass fight.

Like most other anglers fishing on the south coast I have also been having a terrible time trying to catch bass.
Bass appear to be generally absent all along the coast from Wexford to Cork - that suggests to me that it is something other than recreational overfishing and illegal netting. If the problem was simply due to overfishing/netting you would expect there would be areas which would still be fishing well.

I am not saying that overfishing/netting has not had a detrimental effect of bass populations, it undoubtly has but what we are experiencing now is something different.

Since 16th June I have only caught 6 bass (4 on lures, 2 on bait) compared to 24 for the same period last year, and I have definitely had more sessions, typically of longer duration this year in an attempt to connect with some bass. What must also be significant is the absent of pollock at the same marks. Usually at this time of year they become a pest close to dusk but this year they are almost as scarse as the bass. In one particular bay (which is not easily accessible, requiring a 40 minute hike across fields and down cliffs) which I started to fish last year I was nearly always successful in catching bass, even into December, I have fished it at least 10 times this year and have just caught 1 bass. There are several deep kelp lined gulleys which were full of pollock last year but a devoid of fish this year. The absence of fish in this area is highly unlikely to be related to over fishing - I have not seen another angler there this year.

So the cause must be climatic/environmental:

1. It has been an unusually cold summer;
2. Record rainfall in June;
3. Low sea temperatures (cloud cover and rain fall preventing warming of inshore waters).

Other factors which may contribute may be high nitrate concentrations in rain water run-off. Late spring farmers generally spread fertilizer. Much of this would have been washed into the sea duing the heavy June rain fall - has high nitrate concentrations in sea close to shore had an effect on fish? I dont know the answer to to that.

As regards Red Tide - I havn't seen any evidence for that on the East Cork -West Waterford shores.

Just to throw something else out there for consideration. Is anyone out there actually having a very good/good season with regards to Bass?
This is not as daft a question as it sounds and I feel this would be equally as interesting.

Mine has been like Franks. Very, very poor with a few high points ground out through long hours on the shore.

Hi Guys.
I read earlier in this thread there is a developing fishery in the part of the world I like to spend some of my time which is the SW of Scotland, Mull of Galloway- Creetown. I’ve fished the SW for Bass off and on for around 12 years now and it’s a pleasure to do so down there. Great fishing by Scottish standards with a lot of variety and opportunity considering the shape of the west coast fishery the cause of which has been debated for long and weary.

In terms of Bass they have indeed been there certainly since the 60 & 70’s as another contributor states, I know the book he may be referring to. I also worked with a guy back in the 80’s that caught them throughout the 70’s and some very good fish at that.
There are fish spread along the west coast some of which get little angling attention, less chimney pots=less anglers. I fished one of these areas last September, west facing beach of the Kintyre peninsula. I met a local commercial who commented on the first day of our visit there were no Bass there, thankfully he was wrong. In this instance it was only rumours I had heard of their presence, this was in the 80’s and 90’s incidentally its very short journey from the west coast of Ireland to this area.

Bass fishing in Scotland is not really a new concept, certainly more people doing it for a variety of different reasons, the price of it in the fishmongers, people fancying a change, marketing hype or the lack of whitefish as a target.

I would say that on my local Ayrshire coast last year there was an unusually good run of Bass where in the past there were a few. These fish could be a pound and a nice fish 3 pounds. This was preceded in 2010 by an algae bloom which killed off acres of worm beds for miles of coastline? It seems that this year these fish have not materialised, who knows why?

I’m finding a shortage of 2+ pound fish in the SW this year with 1 ¼ fish filling the gaps. I’ve had to fish at night on arguably the number one venue for a lure angler to get my three best fish this year 5 ½, 3 and 3.4 the last two of which just arrived last Friday night and followed by the same small fish on Saturday night. In this part of the world there is always the possibility of a much better fish and has been for as long as I can remember.

Admittedly things do change out there. A good example would be the size and numbers of Smoothounds in the SW of Scotland but Bass, it’s not news, the good news is they are still here.

With forums, blogs and the angling press more fish are being reported and there is a massive commercial push on the gear we use to catch them. But we’re kidding ourselves that it’s all rosy as it’s not. At best it’s OK but can change very quickly.

Hi somedose.

I'm not exactly sure (but I should be because I've been told enough times!) but as far as I know there aren't a lot of 'Irish' bass caught outside of our 12 mile zone.

For confirmation on this ask John Quinlan.

John D.

Oh and by the way, apart from commenting on each other's comments (which even I am guilty of!) has anyone actually suggested a course of action for the topic of the original opening post? i.e. what are we going to do about the demand to re-open the commercial bass fishery?

I must admit it really saddens me to see how many times extremely important posts are submitted on this site but end up getting lost in digression through ego clashes, people missing the point, sensitive souls etc. What chance has the future of our sport got if we keep failing to miss the point?



Yours hopefully,
John D.

Oh and by the way, apart from commenting on each other's comments (which even I am guilty of!) has anyone actually suggested a course of action for the topic of the original opening post? i.e. what are we going to do about the demand to re-open the commercial Bass fishery?

I must admit it really saddens me to see how many times extremely important posts are submitted on this site but end up getting lost in digression through ego clashes, people missing the point, sensitive souls etc. What chance has the future of our sport got if we keep failing to miss the point?

I dont mean to be nit picking but that was not the topic of the opening post - the original post by Jim was a comment on the poor bass fishing at the moment - the comment on the call for reopening of commercial bass fishing was added about day later, which I believe is a non-starter, that is a regular demand from the fisherman's organisations. I am sure that Simon Coveney has more cop-on than to agree to that especially in view of the current lack of bass from recreational angling but of couse it would do no harm for everybody to write him a letter stating what a poor summer it has been for bass anglers indicating that the bass fishery is still in a very poor state even after years of "protection".

Oh and by the way, apart from commenting on each other's comments (which even I am guilty of!) has anyone actually suggested a course of action for the topic of the original opening post? i.e. what are we going to do about the demand to re-open the commercial Bass fishery?

I must admit it really saddens me to see how many times extremely important posts are submitted on this site but end up getting lost in digression through ego clashes, people missing the point, sensitive souls etc. What chance has the future of our sport got if we keep failing to miss the point?



Yours hopefully,
John D.

John as stated above by Tanglerat the mods have now created a separate thread on the commercial bass fishery issue:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40417

Oh and by the way, apart from commenting on each other's comments (which even I am guilty of!) has anyone actually suggested a course of action for the topic of the original opening post? i.e. what are we going to do about the demand to re-open the commercial Bass fishery?

I must admit it really saddens me to see how many times extremely important posts are submitted on this site but end up getting lost in digression through ego clashes, people missing the point, sensitive souls etc. What chance has the future of our sport got if we keep failing to miss the point?



Yours hopefully,
John D.

John D,
I'm afraid it was you who completely missed the point of the original post and the subsequent replies. Please leave out the personal remarks.

Lads, a line under all of this and back to the topic at hand. To recap

Late last year I posted regarding what I consider to have been a deterioration in the numbers of fish that I expected to catch on a day by day basis in Wexford. That deterioration was significant running at 65%. Surely a reasonable post for discussion.

Oh and by the way, apart from commenting on each other's comments (which even I am guilty of!) has anyone actually suggested a course of action for the topic of the original opening post? i.e. what are we going to do about the demand to re-open the commercial Bass fishery?

I must admit it really saddens me to see how many times extremely important posts are submitted on this site but end up getting lost in digression through ego clashes, people missing the point, sensitive souls etc. What chance has the future of our sport got if we keep failing to miss the point?



Yours hopefully,
John D.

I get your sentiment, perhaps I'm a little guilty myself

anyway in the interests of science I'll post some more observations....
frustrated by my lack of visible bass a few days ago I went out at low tide last night to check out the situation.
I had my daughter with me so I was only in the water for a very short time.
Within an hour I spotted 2 bass and took one. This is relatively normal....
Anyway I took one bass (slightly over 3lb) but his stomach was FULL of the stand hoppers...... For those who don't know they look like big wood lice and they live in the decaying seaweed.
this really surprised me as I've never known them to eat these things and /be always thought the rotting seaweed dispersed the bass not brought them in to feed!!!!

my observation suggests, crab, mack, sandeel baits.... Forget it.... Lures plugs... Pointless....
if you want to catch bass now you have to compete with billions of sand hoppers.... Seems to me the bass have a solid food supply and that could account for lack of catches ( certainly in my area anyway)
as i climbed out of the water I had to clamber out over decomposing weed and the ground was heaving with these sand hoppers....

my friend said yesterday his dad (fly fisher) seems to be the only one catching these days... I wonder why...

some many not like that I killed a bass but I left the other be and this is only the 3rd bass I've kept for the table in 2012.... For one reason or another...

Has anyone been having a look at the bass that they have been catching for marks of any kind.From my experience if a mark is all of a sudden not producing as before something is wrong ie the fish have left or have been removed.

This red tide i have not seen in my area at all so i dont think its that.I dont think the bass have left and gone to euro disney for a few weeks.Nine times out of ten the bass have been removed illegally. If you are getting low numbers of bass, when you do get one have a good look most of the time they will have marks.As for size i think if anyone these days get a bass over the 6 mark its a good one.

I dont fish my local area anymore as much due to the lack of fish they are just not there.You will get the odd good one but it very rare now days.The reason they are not there and this is a fact netting.I cant talk for the rest of the country only my area and this is what has happened the have been removed illegally.There was a statement made to me a few years back that seems to be coming true...... Wiping the whole south coast clean of bass...how true that is i dont know

Hi somedose.

I'm not exactly sure (but I should be because I've been told enough times!) but as far as I know there aren't a lot of 'Irish' Bass caught outside of our 12 mile zone.

For confirmation on this ask John Quinlan.

John D.

During winter, bass migrate to deeper water offshore to spawn. It's then when they can be hit by foreign trawlers.

Hi somedose.

I'm not exactly sure (but I should be because I've been told enough times!) but as far as I know there aren't a lot of 'Irish' Bass caught outside of our 12 mile zone.

For confirmation on this ask John Quinlan.

John D.

During winter, Bass migrate to deeper water offshore to spawn. It's then when they can be hit by foreign trawlers.

Well, they do disappear during winter... but they spawn during from march to july hence the closed season

During winter, Bass migrate to deeper water offshore to spawn. It's then when they can be hit by foreign trawlers.

Untrue - In addition it is doubtful if they move that far offshore - I would doubt they move outside the 12 mile limit. Often bass can be caught right through the winter, especially if there is a bit of southerly/southwesterly blow which brings them onto the beaches suggesting that they are not that far off shore.

The reason they are not there and this is a fact netting.

Undoubtly this has had an impact in East Cork, but bass catches seem to to poor all along the south coast. If netting was the principal reason you would expect there to be some areas which still fish well - every bass mark along the south coast can't have been netted (I hope not anyway!!).

Hi somedose.

I'm not exactly sure (but I should be because I've been told enough times!) but as far as I know there aren't a lot of 'Irish' Bass caught outside of our 12 mile zone.

For confirmation on this ask John Quinlan.

John D.

During winter, Bass migrate to deeper water offshore to spawn. It's then when they can be hit by foreign trawlers.

Well, they do disappear during winter... but they spawn during from march to july hence the closed season

True! I completely forgot that! As regards the distances offshore, while it is true that there are still some around in winter (particularly when conditions are favourable), the reason for commerical fishermens ire is the fact that foreign boats can take bass from Irish waters i.e. outside the 12.5 mile limit. These offshore stocks are undoubtably linked to those inshore (and they are treated as such).

Back on topic, the lack of bass may be simply down to poor recruitment. Much as cod/haddock/whiting had through the 50's, bass might not just be spawning successfully for the past few years. Hopefully we'll see a bass version of the Gadoid outburst like there was in the early 1960's.

The change in the environmental factors of our inshore and offshore waters may certainly be linked to lower numbers of fish. For all the expertise that fishery scientist have, modelling wildly flucuating environmental parameters and correlating them to spawning patterns and reproductive output of fish stocks is certain to be rife with uncertainties. I think it's unanimously agreed though that certain factors such as rainfall, water temperature, water acidification levels and current strengths/directions will continue to change dramatically in years to come further increasing our uncertainty with regards to spawning biomass and reproductive output.

Also, not sure what to make of this (is it a good thing or a bad thing?) - "On a separate point, Minister Coveney made it clear to the Council that he would not support the commission's proposal to set quotas for the first time for sea bass, unless this took full account of the fact that Ireland has prohibited commercial sea bass fishing for almost two decades"

This down turn in numbers seems like a big shock to some people It started a long time ago so this is not sometime that has happened in the last few weeks.It was a slow process each year the big fish getting less and less .We can talk about weather, temps, red tides .It was happening long before the last few weeks Maybe i just got used to it all and took it for the way it was