Bass angling on RTE1

It was a very interesting program to watch in my opinion. Ok there was alot more could of been included and maybe if rte had of extended the broadcast further i think our argument as anglers would of been enforced further to the commercials expense. Jim you spoke very well and the woman from the b&b spoke well also.

We all know our argument is much stronger, All we as angers can do is keep sending the emails and letters, report the illegal fishing etc. It only takes a few minutes now and then to do these things and im sure there is people out there who have not took those few minutes to do the above - Strangely enough those same people will be the first to complain if the ban was lifted.

I think you've touched on a very interesting area of a wider aspect GD - I often wonder how many people have a willingness to try and understand and get at least some grasp of this difficult issue and its many aspects. I mention here again, the cohesive and collaborative strength of the FIF is relentless, clever and emotive.

Here was a programme on national television in relation to discussion of two sides of a story regarding the future of part of our protected marine heritage that is now part of many peoples lives and livelihoods.

Many many people spend a lot of time on social media networks, blogs, forums, RSS feeds, etc talking about bass fishing on a daily basis - yet this virtual bass 'network' didnt seem to display any real enthusiasm for a wider communication of the fact that this issue was being discussed on TV.

To me we are touching the nub of the issue here!

Commercial fishermen have paid to be members of representative organisations. Those organisations represent their views and work full time to further the aims and goals of the organisation. They are full time monitoring, developing and implementing strategies etc. They do an OK job, but only OK.

The bodies "representing" sea anglers ( IFSA, EFSA) are conspicuous by their absence on the "bass question".

Are Irish anglers prepared to join an organisation that will actively work to represent anglers and work to preserve the position of bass? There are other issues that concern the sea angler and these need to be adressed too. Would you be prepared to join, pay to join, such an organisation?

The current setup does not work!

If I set up an organisation tomorrow would you pay to join...?

Yes, I would.

IFSA/EFSA are competition organisations, something different is needed.

In answer to your question Jim, I would join in a heartbeat.

To me we are touching the nub of the issue here!

Commercial fishermen have paid to be members of representative organisations. Those organisations represent their views and work full time to further the aims and goals of the organisation. They are full time monitoring, developing and implementing strategies etc. They do an OK job, but only OK.

The bodies "representing" sea anglers ( IFSA, EFSA) are conspicuous by their absence on the "Bass question".

Are Irish anglers prepared to join an organisation that will actively work to represent anglers and work to preserve the position of Bass? There are other issues that concern the sea angler and these need to be adressed too. Would you be prepared to join, pay to join, such an organisation?

The current setup does not work!

If I set up an organisation tomorrow would you pay to join...?

There is no doubt that having full time professional lobbyists would make a huge difference. I have recently been involved with the Angling Trust in the UK. They have over 20 people working full time on angling issues. It was a real eye opener to see how they operate and they are beginning to have some real influence.
The problem we have in Ireland is simply numbers. Beat case senario would be to get 1,000 members of a sea angling organisation. 20 euros a head would only give you 20,000 euros. This would not go very far with professional lobbying.
There is still plenty that can be done by giving some of your own time to the task. To get any real change we have to try to influence our politicians. How many anglers go to there local TD to demend better management of our marine fish. I can assure you that plenty commercial fishermen visit them on a regular basis to try to get what they want.
Instead of 1,000 people joining an organisation I would much rather if 100 sea anglers went to visit their local TD's and demanded a better deal for anglers.
Lets face it, we voted them in now they can do something for us. If we had only 1 or 2 politicians on our side it would make a big difference.

I think for an Angling Trust type org to succeed it would need to represent all branches of angling and not just sea anglers. That would be a tough one to achieve. But fair play to Jim C or anyone who wants to try. I would by the way join an angling org if it was formed. Even within sea angling look at the different divisions. I know that in its early days the Angling Trust almost fell apart due to infighting but as John said they have pulled through. They got one MP Martin Salter to adopt the angling cause which seemed to really help matters for UK angling. He has since gone to work for the Trust. So John's point about canvassing your TD seems valid too.

Walter



Sent from my GT-S5369 using Tapatalk 2

Why not have the IrishBass as a fixed fee membership group? Sell merchandise also to help further fund and establish it. Host meetings throughout the year and elect a committee each year to push the group further? Dont get me wrong im not knocking IrishBass.org im just throwing this out there. I would be happy to pay into any group in relation to the welfare of our bass fishery.

i wonder would the angling council of ireland be a voice for anglers or is it just about the competition side of the deal also

as regards the other species the IFI is doing a survey on all angling, through Tourism Development International - i was asked to do the survey at the jimmy smith - it was very comprehensive asking about money spent per session, yearly on gear, transport etc.

definitely for the anglers benefit and the tourism aspect of it all

if you send patricia@tourismdev.com [mailto:patricia@tourismdev.com]

and ask for the angling survey she will send you a personal link to carry out the survey from TDI

this has possibly being covered somewhere else on the website, but the more surveys that are in the more data on anglers contribution to the economy and the value of sea angling

Several of my customers have direct links to Politicians - I leverage this on a reasonable basis not to spoil the opportunities too regularly.

I am currently enrolled in WIT for 4 years where my classmates are 44 other full time tourism professionals - this degree program is sponsored by Failte Ireland, and the class tutors are continual in their pursuit of real life experiences in the industry during semesters- here are three more platforms that I leverage regularly.

I am in contact with several European / US magazine editors, fisheries professionals, linkedin connections, and many other people almost on a daily basis. I communicate constantly with my customer base etc

I don't consider this a task, this is a necessary part of being a bass fishing guide in Ireland - this goes on a daily basis all in relation to bass protection/promotion, it never stops.

I do it, but would rather contribute it to a valid strategic network.

i wonder would the angling council of ireland be a voice for anglers or is it just about the competition side of the deal also

as regards the other species the IFI is doing a survey on all angling, through Tourism Development International - i was asked to do the survey at the jimmy smith - it was very comprehensive asking about money spent per session, yearly on gear, transport etc.

definitely for the anglers benefit and the tourism aspect of it all

if you send patricia@tourismdev.com [mailto:patricia@tourismdev.com]

and ask for the angling survey she will send you a personal link to carry out the survey from TDI

this has possibly being covered somewhere else on the website, but the more surveys that are in the more data on anglers contribution to the economy and the value of sea angling

Hi Corbyeire,
I'm pretty sure this survey has finished. We were given some very preliminary results at the IFI Forum meeting last night. The total value of all angling in Ireland was given at around 240 million euros per annum. This was broken down into 150 million for domestic anglers and 90 million for tourists. We will have to wait a bit longer to get the details for sea angling.

Why not have the IrishBass as a fixed fee membership group? Sell merchandise also to help further fund and establish it. Host meetings throughout the year and elect a committee each year to push the group further? Dont get me wrong im not knocking IrishBass.org im just throwing this out there. I would be happy to pay into any group in relation to the welfare of our Bass fishery.

Hi Gd,
You have raised some good points. There are several reasons why Irish Bass has not gone down the route you suggested. In my angling life I have been and still am involved in many angling organisations/clubs. In many cases the normal structures of paid up members and elected commitee members has resulted in very slow decision making and even slower action. While funds are always welcome what Irish Bass actually lacks are people who are prepared to give their time to make sure our voice is heard. This is partly my fault as I have not been as good as I should have in getting more people directly involved and have depended on a core group for too long. If bass anglers/businesses are to be involved and have influence in decision making this needs to change.
Last night I attended the latest IFI Forum meeting. Of the 28 members that attended I was the only one from a sea angling backround there. While I tried to highlight the danger of any change to our bass laws at the meeting, almost all of the discusions revolved around salmon issues simply because almost all the members present were from a salmon backround. Minister Fergus O Dowd was in attendance for the whole meeting and it would have been very helpfull to have sea angling issues higher on the agenda.
I did however manage to get quite a bit of private time with the Minister. He said he was against any change to our bass laws and promised to pass on a report that proves that other countries are not catching bass in Irish waters to Simon Coveney. He has even agreed to try a bit of bass fishing in Kerry next year. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

i wonder would the angling council of ireland be a voice for anglers or is it just about the competition side of the deal also

as regards the other species the IFI is doing a survey on all angling, through Tourism Development International - i was asked to do the survey at the jimmy smith - it was very comprehensive asking about money spent per session, yearly on gear, transport etc.

definitely for the anglers benefit and the tourism aspect of it all

if you send patricia@tourismdev.com [mailto:patricia@tourismdev.com]

and ask for the angling survey she will send you a personal link to carry out the survey from TDI

this has possibly being covered somewhere else on the website, but the more surveys that are in the more data on anglers contribution to the economy and the value of sea angling

Hi Corbyeire,
I'm pretty sure this survey has finished. We were given some very preliminary results at the IFI Forum meeting last night. The total value of all angling in Ireland was given at around 240 million euros per annum. This was broken down into 150 million for domestic anglers and 90 million for tourists. We will have to wait a bit longer to get the details for sea angling.

In relation to the survey I spoke to Patricia both last night and this morning and its still up and running.

Minister Fergus O Dowd was in attendance for the whole meeting and it would have been very helpfull to have sea angling issues higher on the agenda.
I did however manage to get quite a bit of private time with the Minister. He said he was against any change to our Bass laws and promised to pass on a report that proves that other countries are not catching Bass in Irish waters to Simon Coveney. He has even agreed to try a bit of Bass fishing in Kerry next year. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

In fairness to O'Dowd, he has been one of the more active fisheries ministers we've had for a long time, and has made a point of getting around the country to see various aspects of fishery management. If you liaise with Suzanne Campion in IFI and invite the minister formally I'd be fairly sure he will do it - especially if there's a photo opportunity!

He said he was against any change to our Bass laws and promised to pass on a report that proves that other countries are not catching Bass in Irish waters to Simon Coveney. .

If anybody wants anything passed on to Simon Coveney I can facilitate that. It is not something I want to do on a regular basis but documented evidence , reports , facts and figures are welcome and can be brought to his attention .I would suggest to the point ,the less guff the better would be more likely to have an impact . That's just my opinion though, as I wouldn't trust politicians to sit down and wade through a load of documentation, even if it was their job to do just that ?

Infact as watching something takes less effort than reading it, would it not be an idea to get a documentary made telling "our" side of this situation in full. Maybe funding could be raised with help from Tourism Ireland , Bord Failte etc ? Getting a bit more media savvy shouldn't do any harm anyway.

Bycatch from trawlers should all be landed in my opinion . Discards as they are called, are passed over all too easily and swept under the carpet . We fish catch measure and release in our competitions and I wouldn't have it any other way, but the reality is the amount of fish that may be saved by this action in a year by our club is absolutely miniscule compared to the amount of young fish needlessly killed by a single trawler on a day trip.
The commercials shovel back huge amounts of dead fish every day, they don't want to store them on board taking up vital space, ice , extra labour and burning more diesel to carry the stuff around . If they had to do that they might even then have to change their fishing gear to allow more small fish , or "RUBBISH" as they call them, to escape, and god forbid the odd decent black sole might slip through the meshes ! They might also have to stop fishing those grounds where a lot of juveniles are present and target the areas where a higher proportion of adult fish are prevalent.It is no wonder they are against the idea of not discarding anything.

Anglers wanting to know why the fishing is declining might want to start looking at this very subject believe me the quantities are frightening !! The commercials blame the seals.

The IFSA would want to pull their socks up too. I've been told if Ireland come in the top 6 places at the World Championships in Spain next year they will be ranked the No.1 country in the World(apologies if my information is incorrect on this?) . This has been achieved despite any funding for the anglers who have had to raise the money and have probably got themselves into personal debt to represent their country. The infrastructure backing some of the best anglers in the World is antiquated and out of its depth. The truth is the angling standard has progressed far quicker than the "old boys" who make the decisions have been able to keep up with . The fact that they have only just got a modern website together this year highlights my very feelings and I believe a big shake-up and some progressive thinking is long over-due.

Apologies for going off topic , Ireland just has so much unfulfilled potential its frustrating.

Yes sea angling needs a political voice, however this voice needs to be representative of the key components that collectively make up the sector, sea anglers being just one element.

An amalgam of consumers (sea anglers) and sea angling industry stakeholders (accommodation, guides, charters, tackle shops, manufacturers, amongst others) is a force to be reckoned with.

All fish stocks, not just bass, and rehabilitation of the marine resource should be on the table.

Pull that mix together and sea angling will have the economic clout to sit at the negotiating table in Brussels.

There are enough educated, informed, experienced, and passionate people within the above circles to match anybody the commercial sector wheels out.

For what it's worth my hat is in the ring.

At long last there are some sensible suggestions coming through. I'm 42 and having fished competitions and been in clubs since I was 10 there is no doubt in my mind that angling is the most un-unified, disjointed sport out there. Maybe that word 'sport' is part of the problem. Is our game a sport or a pastime? Is it an industry? I don't know. What I do know is that it isn't taken seriously by politicians or the commercial fishing sector. Why should it? It doesn't speak with one voice. All you hear is some banter on the beaches or some rumbling on a forum. It's about time a properly organised body was put together that has the ability to lobby our interests and gain political credibility.

I'd certainly be interested in getting together for a chat with anybody about putting together some sort of group but, and this won't go down well with some, I would have absolutely no interest at all in doing so if it was confined to, and put together specifically for, Bass only. As I've stated in a number of threads, my interests go a lot further than just Bass and I genuinely believe that in order to fix the problem the entire subject of angling interest must be addressed.

Some people realise the potential in Germany, Denmark, Holland, and the Czech republic - from a note I got today -

http://www.probassfisher.com/2012/12/a- ... xford.html

Imagine what this does for angling in Ireland!

Well done Jim for putting forward the angler's case so well in a programme that was always going to editorially slanted towards the commercials case.
As a life long angler and a guy who spent a number of years commercial fishing( I quit 11 years ago) who counts some commercial skippers among my friends I get to hear their side of this story quite regularly .
They are adament that French trawlers are targetting bass successfully on the prawn fishing ground called the "Smalls" 40 odd miles south of Wexford.They are also convinced the stock of Bass off the southern Wexford coast is an"offshore stock" that has increased over the past 15 or 20 years.
From what I gather and as I'd expect Bass are not being regularly picked up as bycatch by the Irish fleet targetting Prawns on the Smalls(due to slow towing speed and low net lift height). However among the Irish boats(and the French boats they share the ground with), every year some of them will tow into a big school of Bass(up to a couple of tonnes). Most likely this will be when the twin rigged trawls are being hauled up through the water colum, as these Bass are nearly always still alive when taken aboard. Skippers say they have encountered "shots" of Bass more often in recient years.
I have heard of these big shots of Bass from the Smalls and further north being brought ashore into Milford Haven, but now I have been told by a commercial skipper that they are being brought ashore into Irish ports and being loaded into a trailer to be driven out of the country. As expected they will not provide any specific details.
Ok, whilest the above is anecdotal, it might serve to show people what we are up against. Irish commercial fishermen have significant expertise in pelagic pair trawling for Herring and Mackerel, I dread to think of the havok they would wreak on the Bass stocks if they were allowed.

Hi Fishmagnet,
I bought the subject of the bass being caught off The Smalls up on a similar thread on The Lure Forum where another member agreed he'd heard the same off his commercial contacts.
As you say bass have been getting picked up as bycatch to the prawn fishing for a number of years there. My contacts have only had small amounts up to now though.
http://mapcarta.com/17620908

I have always considered them to be Welsh fish though and would be suprised if the Irish bass stock was traveling that far east to "over winter". I was born and raised in that part of Wales and boat and shore fished for bass, including commercially with rod and line, around the south coast of Pembrokeshire. Having fished nearly 15 years in each country I would have guessed that there were more bass in that welsh county than there was in the whole of Ireland ,though the Irish stock is more mature nowadays. I still have friends rod+lining for the shoals of bass that populate the reefs every summer there.

White Water Charters fish for their sharks off The Smalls out of Milford , I knew someone who fished 4 DNG jigging machines around The Smalls only catching pollack , and he could legally land bass? this again done out of The Haven. This reef area is on Welsh grounds and is much more accessible to all things Welsh. How anyone could claim them to be Irish bass without any scientific proof is slightly bizarre if anything.

So basically I'm saying its much more likely geographically that the Welsh bass, who are used to living at depth, are making the small journey west to visit The Smalls than the Irish bass ,who are more used to living in shallower water, are making the vast journey east to visit the Taffies.

How many of these threads do we have to go through before we actually meet up to make a plan of action ?