Press Release - Does Recreational Angling contribute.....

yea i actually cherish the 100 euro house tax cos i know its going to be ploughed back into local services and make my area a better place just like a fishing licence would !

yea right !!!

50 % would go on consultancy fee,s 30% on management and 20% on administration ,with the poor feckers on the ground actually enforcing the law left with the same resourses they started out with a couple of dozen lads to patrol our whole coastline
since when did any of our hard earned cash go where its supposed to? unless of course your a well in developer who went bust and got a nice salary off nama with a nice wink and nodd from your political buddies

We Know were it goes just ask Bertie!!! ... Oh wait ... he cant remember!! Doh...!!! But He's not the only one, the whole system is corrupt from the top down. Here we are normal joe soaps (apart from Twinkle I seen him... he scary lookin!!! ) tryin to make things we do in life more enjoyable, I have a hobby that puts dinner on the table as a bonus. and Not are they only Taxing the hell out of the fuel I use to get to marks, the tax I pay on tackle, now I have nutters tellin me I have to watch where i'm digging bait, AND the possible threat of a rod licence on top of a property tax I CAN'T afford!, and the blood car tax etc etc.. I wonder what planet these guys are livin on...
Yes I would be on for a rod licence if it meant the likes of day tripping "macky bashers" (you know the ones lads Im always on about!) knee deep beer cans, throwing mackerel high into the air only to watch them smash apon the ground grrrrrr If it kept those sort at home or the others we call tiddler takers!! you know he's just caught a tiny pollock no more then 19cm and it goes straight into his keep bag

Lads for the good of angling (EU directive or not) please take part in any angling survey you might be asked to take part in. Anything that shows an interest in our sport should at least be showed that same interest back by anglers themselves.

Kevin, your peeing in the wind regarding your argument here, and by the way I agree with the fundamentals of your pitch.

As for the sea being a free resource, look at the state of it for being such. The only way that anglers can have a say in their sport is by investing in it end of story, therefore some form of licence is a prerequisite as is this survey.

There is one truth that this thread shows, nothing has changed since the 1980's rod licence dispute, ignorance still prevails.

I fear for the sport that I love if this thread truly reflects those who manage our fisheries resource or are involved at club or angling association level, the degree of intransigence and lack of vision is mind blowing.

Kevin, your peeing in the wind regarding your argument here, and by the way I agree with the fundamentals of your pitch.

As for the sea being a free resource, look at the state of it for being such. The only way that anglers can have a say in their sport is by investing in it end of story, therefore some form of licence is a prerequisite as is this survey.

There is one truth that this thread shows, nothing has changed since the 1980's rod licence dispute, ignorance still prevails.

I fear for the sport that I love if this thread truly reflects those who manage our fisheries resource or are involved at club or angling association level, the degree of intransigence and lack of vision is mind blowing.

Ashley,did you just call me ignorant?...as for intransigence and lack of vision,well, we will see....i would be quite happy to pay for the sport that i love...i salmon fished for years till i was priced out of it by licences and club fees..BUT,i know that our government and the e.u. will use all information gathered for there own use...i.e. licence sea angling...it wont be the first time a "survey" will be used to highlight socio economic needs...as for lack of vision,im part of a new club in Galway, I have helped out the first club in connaught to support a full boat and shore competition format,because that,s what the members wanted,i am at the front with concervation efforts ,i killed a total of 39 fish from the shore last year...

I QUOTE YOU NOW..."As for the sea being a free resource, look at the state of it for being such. The only way that anglers can have a say in their sport is by investing in it end of story, therefore some form of licence is a prerequisite as is this survey"....that kinda says it all as to where you stand on the licence issue....

There is one truth that this thread shows, nothing has changed since the 1980's rod licence dispute, ignorance still prevails.

You may call it ignorance Ashley. I'll call it a pretty fundamental point of principle.

[quote="Tanglerat"][quote="Ashley Hayden"]There is one truth that this thread shows, nothing has changed since the 1980's rod licence dispute, ignorance still prevails........................................................................................................... ignorance is that what i have? i thought it was just a good memory i also fought against a license in the 80s.whats happening now is the same as then. show us the promised land and be left looking for it. what these proposals are is a copy the american system as stated in eu reports. which is a system of permits and license fees
designated fishing areas and non angling areas. now put aside some of the people pushing and lobbying this.they have a vested interest in this because they make there living from angling tourism. the sea is the only taxfree thing left in this country.its been a source of food and recreation for all since the beginning of time and i for one will not sign away my kids rights to free angling in the sea ,just to give some organization who im not a part of a bigger say on how to make more money from bass angling as opposed to fishing bass commercially these people are blinded .by this survey rose tinted glasses and all that.as soon as i have confirmation that this is the package from europe i will post it up here i have sent emails to several tds looking for clarification .as it was in the 80s ashley there was supposed to be fundamental changes made by goverment as to new bye laws for commercials with limits and as you have witnessed over the last 25years they cleaned out your own backyard while every body watched them nothing but dogfish left.and you think by giving a rod license and buying a permit that will change the ways of the beast.i think not. we pay the highest road tax in europe and still have no roads.how quickly we forget, our rods and tackle have already been taxed to the max so if im ignorant forgive me but a gobshite im not. how many times do you have to get mugged before you realize youve been robbed

anyhoo lads, this thread is wandering a bit, it's supposed to be about the survey not the pros and cons of licences . I don't have time until this evening to tidy it up, but I'll sort it out then and split off the other stuff into a thread of its own.

Meanwhile, to save me further work later on, post only about the survey.

Ta.

@ Tanglerat No worries mate If this survey was for the benifet of the protection of fishstocks, easy of access to marks, etc. I would be for it but as Ashley rightly pointed out its yet another Governmental Scam to pay off Germany! Yes some might think I have lost the plot but look at the track record.. history speaks volumes! I pay Huge Car tax bills per annum, as I need big cars for my family and stuff i do do. Are the roads anybetter? Nope! Only when the Queen Liz and Prez Obama came over were some of the roads fixed and cleaned! So to pay a rod licence fee after the survey is complete its like paying for your water meter

@ Tanglerat No worries mate If this survey was for the benifet of the protection of fishstocks, easy of access to marks, etc. I would be for it but as Ashley rightly pointed out its yet another Governmental Scam to pay off Germany! Yes some might think I have lost the plot but look at the track record.. history speaks volumes! I pay Huge Car tax bills per annum, as I need big cars for my family and stuff i do do. Are the roads anybetter? Nope! Only when the Queen Liz and Prez Obama came over were some of the roads fixed and cleaned! So to pay a rod licence fee after the survey is complete its like paying for your water meter

Seriously, can you please point out where in Ashley's post he says that? He expressed a personal opinion about a rod licence, where did he mention government scam or Germany???

This survey is nothing to do with a rod licence. End. Of. Story. You've been told that, several times. If you can't understand that then I give up.

Yes some might think I have lost the plot

You said it!

@ Tanglerat No worries mate If this survey was for the benifet of the protection of fishstocks, easy of access to marks, etc. I would be for it but as Ashley rightly pointed out its yet another Governmental Scam to pay off Germany! Yes some might think I have lost the plot but look at the track record.. history speaks volumes! I pay Huge Car tax bills per annum, as I need big cars for my family and stuff i do do. Are the roads anybetter? Nope! Only when the Queen Liz and Prez Obama came over were some of the roads fixed and cleaned! So to pay a rod licence fee after the survey is complete its like paying for your water meter

Seriously, can you please point out where in Ashley's post he says that? He expressed a personal opinion about a rod licence, where did he mention government scam or Germany???

This survey is nothing to do with a rod licence. End. Of. Story. You've been told that, several times. If you can't understand that then I give up.

Yes some might think I have lost the plot

You said it!

You know me soo well!! I would agree with your point about figures .....

Now for anyone that isn't a conspiracy theorist, I hope if you're asked to participate that you do. When it comes to fighting for our sport at the government table, state agencies and angling federations alike are hampered by not being able to call on figures that will back up their case about the importance of angling to our economy. That's what this is really about

Nothing worse then to try and debate a point without the full figures to hand!!!

But can there be assurances that this will not lead to an introduction of "fees"?
As you know too well I am all on for the protection of our fish stocks and environment a mere trip through this website will vouch for that. Have a lookie at the litter thread. As I am a Sea Angler mainly that of shore, i have come across a vast many issues, one is access to the foreshore, yes there are beaches around the country that have been blocked off by private and commercial interest, roads being unattended hampering access etc. will this help in those areas? (as in force local Council to step up?) as for illegal netting again will this questionaire assit in helping in those areas? yes, I know there are number to ring (have them logged on my phone )
Bradan, I just want to get at the information around this questionaire and where at the end of the day the information will be used and to what end.

who will benifet from these surveys? will the ordinary sea angler? no he wont. there infomation will be used to promote sea angling mainly bass to foreign anglers to increase tourism fill our hotels /resturants and give plenty of work to fishing guides. jobs for the boys excuse the pun. having looked at the board of ifi not one member is involved in our sport.they are all trout and fly men.so there outlook and expirience would be towards the lakes and rivers.there has been a bone of contension with sea anglers not having to pay license fees from the trout and salmon men for decades so its not hard to see the directionwe are heading. while talking to a political friend he said if a license was not imposed, a permit to fish for bass was on the agenda.i just hope the people pushing this through have looked at the bigger upicture .in case it has slipped your attention we have loads of foreign anglers here already fishing and keeping bass. the only difference is we are paying to keep them in our hotels and resturants.if i could see even one benifet to the average angler in this i would give this a go but all i can see down the line is expense and another of our basic rights given freely away

if this survey is just about how much anglers contribute to the economy theres no problem in that but surely government has more to concern its self with but i belive that once the powers that be get that information on how much an angler spends per day,month,year they will introduce a licence and then it will be all down hill from there im from the north as far back as i can remember we have always had a rod licence for game and coarse fishing it has increased each year and the fishing has got worse each year

Just read this thread from start to finish and there is some good posts both for and against.
At the start i was all for helping with a survey to help understand how much recreational anglers spend/catch.(which would be me)
I think it would be a good thing for IRELAND if we could gather this information and see where its going wrong and fix it, but is it going to be used for this or not ? I'm unsure.

I fish all along the south east coast mainly from the shore and have been on and off since i was 11 or 12, so 12 years fishing it.

In my own experience ive found fishing along this part to be getting worse and worse.

In all them years ive seen nobody taking undersized or illegal fish from where ive been fishing, and i would never take a fish thats undersized or illegal, I've thrown back a few good fish that could have been tasty with a bit of kerrygold but at the time it felt right to put them back safely, and if id ever see somebody poaching i wouldnt be able to let it pass.

But I feel the problem is not your average joe angler fishing for recreation, the problem lies offshore where the fishing stocks and beds are being trawled ruthlessly without regard for the environment why ?

and a quote from fergus o down

It is imperative that the inland fisheries and sea angling resources are managed in the best way possible to ensure enjoyment

So I worry where this survey will lead, like the Lisbon treaty and the IMF

Shore angling will not be "managed" i'll walk out onto any beach cast out a line and hope for the best no fees attached.

Safe to say I wont be doing the survey

if this survey is just about how much anglers contribute to the economy theres no problem in that but surely government has more to concern its self with but i belive that once the powers that be get that information on how much an angler spends per day,month,year they will introduce a licence and then it will be all down hill from there im from the north as far back as i can remember we have always had a rod licence for game and coarse fishing it has increased each year and the fishing has got worse each year

Not true! My licence was 20% cheaper this year and there are more rivers open now for game angling since the salmon draft net buy out 5 years ago

if this survey is just about how much anglers contribute to the economy theres no problem in that but surely government has more to concern its self with but i belive that once the powers that be get that information on how much an angler spends per day,month,year they will introduce a licence and then it will be all down hill from there im from the north as far back as i can remember we have always had a rod licence for game and coarse fishing it has increased each year and the fishing has got worse each year

Not true! My licence was 20% cheaper this year and there are more rivers open now for game angling since the salmon draft net buy out 5 years ago

there might be more rivers open but where are the fish im not talking bout salmon im talking about the rivers and lakes in general any way this is getting of the topic as far as im concerned governments are not to be trusted and as for being part of the E.C.C. there are land locked countries that are having a say in how our seas should should be managed No Fishing Fleet No Say would that not help our seas

as for being part of the E.C.C. there are land locked countries that are having a say in how our seas should should be managed No Fishing Fleet No Say would that not help our seas

Dunno, have to think about that one actually, it might be counter-intuitive.

Supposing, if a country doesn't have a fishing fleet, the Govt of that country isn't under pressure from it's (non-existant!) fishermen to increase quotas, allow the rape & pillage of the seas to continue or to resist meaningful reforms. Might be a good thing that such countries do have a say in how our seas are run - aren't they more likely to demand the right action be taken?

as for being part of the E.C.C. there are land locked countries that are having a say in how our seas should should be managed No Fishing Fleet No Say would that not help our seas

Dunno, have to think about that one actually, it might be counter-intuitive.

Supposing, if a country doesn't have a fishing fleet, the Govt of that country isn't under pressure from it's (non-existant!) fishermen to increase quotas, allow the rape & pillage of the seas to continue or to resist meaningful reforms. Might be a good thing that such countries do have a say in how our seas are run - aren't they more likely to demand the right action be taken?

You would think! Look at how the International Whaling Commission runs for an example of why this theory doesn't work...

Guys, I don't want to wade right into the heart of the argument as I haven't made up my own mind, but I did want to pick up on a point expressed in a couple of posts above.
There is an implication that bass anglers coming from the continent is somehow a negative thing. Surely it's the exact opposite- they contribute to the local economy, spread the word about the quality of fishing here to their mates back home and tend to be extremely conservation minded- for example see the recent French bass angling trip to cork harbour where 30 or 40 bass were caught and released.

Contrast that with our own "cans on the pier" brigade killing anything that moves in the water

unfortunatly they are not all catch and release.we have had mountains of posts over the years showing the opposite.last year in kerry 4 french anglers had bags of bass.also there very prone to keeping any large fish they hook.to bring back to show the wife.look at the six gilled shark last year killed for a photo.but dont take this out of context.we have had troops of anglers from allover the world to fish here for years. most of them come for the hospitality, fishing, and the craic,what has happened in the last 15 yrs is we are just 2 expensive to visit.couple that with the crime rate and the picture you have painted of drunken yobs at fishing venues and you can easily see why there numbers are not what they should be.but this survey is not aimed at foriegn tourists.this is aimed at us.to see how much we are spending on our sport and how much more they can bleed out of us.the day of an ordinary joe angler visiting us is long gone only the wealthy can afford our prices unless they are staying with relatives here.and in the next 5 years it is going to get too expensive for us too.

shortcircuit thanks -

See this website www.probassfisher.com its a celebration of one aspect of the fishing in this country in saltwater. Please dont start with crap regarding tourist anglers killing and taking fish BEFORE we look at ourselves.

After ten years of International and National business, with hundreds of anglers from all over the world going through the doors in a limited valid operating season, leading and developing the idea that someone could guide in saltwater for bass here

- Where is this promoted or highlighted or championed in this country ?
- Where have we learned that this might mean something?
- Where is it demonstrated that it makes a social and economic contribution?
- Where are similar models pointed at and utilised as small successes?
- Where is it demonstrated that such small businesses are SUSTAINABLE?

No where.