Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:26 pm

I was not going to get into this but in the interests of debate I will add my moneys worth. The full moon must have something to do with it. A lot of points have been made and some of them valid but here is some food for thought. Please form an orderly queue as this could be a long string

• Most finfish are fed on fishmeal protein and fishmeal protein is a finite resource, however, fishmeal protein is made up of fish that humans do not eat. For example fish such as sandeel, blue whiting and scad. Also off cuts of fish processing also goes to fishmeal protein, in particular herring off cuts and fish offal. There is exploitation of stocks by first world countries, for fish meal, in third world waters which is totally wrong.
• If fishmeal protein did not go to fish farming, and not all of it does, the meal would be fed to other animals such as cow, pigs and poultry. Fishmeal protein is also used as fertilizer.
• It does take more than one ton of fishmeal protein to convert into one ton of live famed fish but fish convert better than mammals as they do not expend energy keeping warm.
• We must also look at ourselves, as sea anglers, when it comes to converting one fish into another. How many mackerel do we all use as bait to catch a fish? How many squid, sandeels etc. Think about it.
• To grow a cow in a field you need about 1 acre. Finfish are much more space efficient in terms of culture and are generally grown at densities of less than 10kg per cubic meter. Even shellfish are more efficient than cows, sheep or pigs.
• I am 90% sure that last year the world production of cultured fish exceeded the catch of wild fish for the first time. Some will say that this is to do with the decline in wild fish but wild fish catches worldwide remain fairly stable due to opening up of new fisheries. I am sure though that this will change as more and more stocks become over exploited.
• Commercial fishing is becoming less and less sustainable as stock decrease, costs rise and the unmonitored damage they do becomes recognised. Fishing is also a form of hunting and we are going to have to farm the sea as we farm the land if we want to maintain food supplies from our waters. I do stress that this must be done in an ecologically sound way.
• In Ireland our farmed fish produce gets the best prices over other similar products in Europe. You cannot buy Irish farmed salmon here in Irish shops. It all goes abroad for better prices. The salmon you see in shops here is Scottish fish.
• On salmon farming these farms are monitored regularly and unannounced by the Dept of Marine, Marine Institute and fisheries boards as well as monitoring themselves using accredited scientists. They are monitored for lice, chemical residues, diseases and environmental parameters. The organic certification that some of them have adds another dimension in monitoring and yet they are still here.
• If salmon farms are to blame for seatrout decline why has there been no court case causing them to close or at least pay restitution to the tourism/angling industry?
• As for Jobs in rural Ireland (northwest, west and southwest) while there may not be many direct jobs that are far more indirect jobs. For example packing and processing, transportation, marketing, monitoring, sales, equipment hire etc. Tourism, angling, fishing etc have never been 12 month a year job makers in these areas and I think never will. Even 10 full time jobs can sustain families and keep villages alive.
• In Europe we are now farming, Bass, Bream (3 species), Halibut, Turbot, Sole, Cod, Pollack, Salmon, Trout, wolfish, haddock, grouper, tuna and Octopus. All these are in the marine only. There are trials ongoing with different fish such as Hake. Freshwater fish and shellfish I will not even mention

I think fish farming is here to stay and for those of you now fuming I will say it again. FISHFARMING MUST BE IN AN ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY WAY AND IT MUST ALSO BE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE. I, for one, welcome fish farming over uncontrolled commercial fishing any day.

I will leave the last word in this contribution to one of the worlds best known marine conservationist

“With earth's burgeoning human populations to feed we must turn to the sea with new understanding and new technology. We need to farm it as we farm the land."
JACQUES COUSTEAU, 1973


Now, form an orderly queue please, and go easy on me……….. :oops:

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:18 pm

ill just say few things generally

one about the sandeels etc. that we are not interested in - but what do the species we are interested in eat?????

the comparison of anglers bait requirements vs the amounts required to fish farm are not comarable whatsoever

stable opening of new fisheries? more like more efficient exploitation of third world resources by first world ships - where do you think the nurseries are of the few fish left in first world water are coming from (in my opinion) this is the uncontrolled commerical fishing you speak of

there is no data on these new fisheries - only the final figure - 0 fish left

one can easily buy irish farmed fish here in ireland!

the record of ecological standard enforcement is largely non-existent in this country - not worth the paper its written - self regulation etc.

maybe the statements on jobs etc. are true - but if a tradition of recognised areas of good angling were nurtured and re established - who knows!

FISHFARMING MUST BE IN AN ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY WAY AND IT MUST ALSO BE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE - this statement is a complete fallacy - it is not possible economics is environmental destruction, always the end result

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:27 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.j ... alm128.xml

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:33 pm

Tanglerat wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/28/easalm128.xml


as you say tanglerat - more fish please

:D

Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:49 pm

Irish Salmon - now theres a joke .
Let me tell you lads a couple of stories and then we can all laugh.

Farmed salmon from the Galway coast must be sold through a system that involves them being loaded on to a lorry and being transported to Glasgow where they are then distributed to the rest of the world.
A fish monger in Londonderry/Derry wants 4 pallets of salmon from the Galway farm and heres how he has to get it.
He has to send a lorry to Glasgow to collect it and 9 times out of 10 the 2 lorries are on the same boat follow each other up the road to Glasgow where the salmon comes out of one lorry and across a warehouse and into the other lorry. They then follow each other back down the road to the boat.


The same warehouse supplies salmon from the salmon farms off the Scottish coast to a Fish monger in Belfast.The salmon arrives in Belfast at 4 in the morning and is put on a lorry for Dublin .Its down there for arround 10 and by 12 is sliced and packed into the little packs that you can buy in the supermarkets and deli counters . What does it say on the packet?- BEST QUALITY IRISH SALMON.

I was a lorry driver for ten years and was involved with the second story and knew the drivers in the first.

My opinion on salmon farms - the sooner they are all decomissioned the better. Yes I feel for anyone who loses a job because of that but the damage that these farms are doing to the surrounding areas in my opinion means they are just not worth it.
The cages in the news have been a constant source of trouble wether it be from escaping fish trying to enter the rivers and breed with local fish or the fact that they are anchored much to close to land and not where they are supposed to be - further out at sea where the muck that comes out of them would be better dispersed with the tides etc.