Sustainable fishing

If you want to preserve fish stocks you need to restrict who is allowed to eat or use them.

A start could be made by reducing marketing pressure. Fish processors, supermarkets etc, are pushing commercial fish products by advertising them as if there is a cheap and endless supply of raw material out there. BIM has been pretty active in pumping up the market over the years too when they knew damn well the stocks were in trouble. Remove an item from the menu and most people wont ask for it.

i recently watched a program on tv about a ceo of a fishing fleet. it was frightening one factory ship carried 300 personel who were 6 months at sea each shift. one worker had not been home in 3 yrs .they supply all the big chains in america and worldwide. its a wonder there is anything left looking at just this one trawler.processed and boxed on board only docking to unload. then delivered to the outlets

Twinkle

a great post stan and i used florida and the man made reefs in the states as an example of fishing nirvana a few years back.there is bigger probs in the states as a lot of the fish caught cant be eaten because of mercury amounts .so that could easily explain the lack of trawlers most of the fish is polluted/. they also have lines been cast 4 and 5 miles long for tuna and swords on a large scale ,killing thousands of sharks and undersized fish in the process so not so perfect. a ban on all trawling and dredgingof even 6 miles around our coast would make such a difference throw in a few man made reefs and give our fish back there nurseries. because thats what we have destroyed .put back and re sow the musselbeds this gives shelter and cleans the water as well as food not an impossible task

[color=#800000]Thanks Twinkle.

The only fish that they don't seem to eat is barracuda. Tuna should never been eaten on a weekly basis because it can have an excess of mercury in it. However, it is sold and eaten in Floria and is very expensive. The trawlers were banned because they were doing to much damage to the fishery. As regards lines, I personally think that they do not really do anywhere near as much damage or catch as many fish. As kids we used to set them in Whiting Bay and Ballyquin for bass. The success rate was not great. Yet nets nearly killed off the bass population in a few years. As regards mussels beds being removed that is criminal as far as I am concerned. Look at Greystones. It was probably one of the best cod and plaice fisheries in the country and the seed boats removed the mussel beds. How crazy was that.

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John
i'm always interested when someone tells us we need to know and understand the "facts". Its often the case that many facts are open to interpretation but sometimes they are simply the facts. Here are a few for you; It is a deliberate policy in many US States to have fish stock levels high enough that very many people who want to eat fish can simply go out and catch them. This has many advantages. It gets people out into the environment. If properly managed it is sustainable. It puts food on the table! It gives the highest possible "added value" to the fish consumed.
Ireland can manage its inshore (6 miles) fish stocks any way it pleases. The only stipulation by the EU is that we cannot go below MLS's. We already do things differently with Bass.
The 754 MEP's mentiones above do not decide our fisheries

John it is lovely to see such a sensible post. You are right we can manage our inshore fishing.



I am just commenting on these posts as I do not want to get up too much in arguing about EU policies. The facts are that we could and should manage our inshore fisheries while we still have them.

I didn't think that they original post would stir up so much interest.

Christ it's getting hot in here.......

This is a touchy subject at the best of times Stan, I hope that some of my points have shown people how much power we have given to the EU, fishing is now in the political arena for the foreseeable future unfortunately and all decisions on Irish and British fisheries will continue to be discussed in Brussels and Strasbourg, not in Dublin and London. I will close my contributions on this post but my fight continues through the ballot box.

Good Fishing to All
Aaron

I suggest you read Ed Fahey's superb book "Overkill!" on the history of commercial fishing in Ireland. Over the years, the EU actually made very sensible proposals on management of fish stocks which were torn apart by national governments - including ours - each intent on grabbing as much as they could for their own greedy fleets now, and to hell with the future.

The notion that the EU should be dismantled in order to improve local shore angling is beyond ludicrous.

Had a chat with a pal today, a very prominent fishing skipper and he told me he has never seen the Cod stock so healthy on the South coast. He put this down to 3 different factors: A. The closure of the two cod boxes (700 sq miles) that run from the SE coast all the way south to the Cornish coastline during the Cod spawning season. B. The adoption of square mesh panels on all Irish trawlers. C. The voluntary use of 100ml mesh size on codends (the legal size is much smaller at 80ml)


The main problem the South coast men have is the refusal of East coast fishermen to budge from 80ml codend mesh size. This is because these guys fish for prawns as their mainstay. The government/Dept of the Marine/EU have made no attempt to leglislate for increased mesh size( so please do not blame the south coast men for being inactive on conservation issues). Prawns can still be caught with 100ml(albeit a lesser amount and better size prawn) and this fishery would reap the benefits of larger prawns in the short to medium term if the authorities pushed leglislation on this. A small percentage of cowboys operating on all and coasts want no conservation of any sort (some put the square mesh panel on the bottom sheet of the trawl(where it is of no use) and the navy do not even twig it!! Others work the smallest mesh possible and are too ignorant and short sighted to change.

These facts are not known to the general public and mabey a liaison officer who connects with Angling, Tourism, Commercial Fishing interests and Local government is the way to go. This would get rid of all the propaganda, misinformation and then people could get down to proper fisheries management on a local level. No point in waiting for the EU to do so, this is not going to happen anytime soon. As some scribe commented in a previous post we arte still in total control of our exclusive zone inside 6miles. If we started there we could show the EU by example how well we could manage our own fisheries.

100ml mesh size on codends would have an enormous effect on fish stocks , (even if nothing else was ever done). One action such as this would eliminate the discard problem in one action.
A large proportion of the commercial sector want this!
Make your voice heard and support the south coast demand,(west and NW also want this).

Larger mesh size makes sense .

Had a chat with a pal today, a very prominent fishing skipper and he told me he has never seen the Cod stock so healthy on the South coast. He put this down to 3 different factors: A. The closure of the two cod boxes (700 sq miles) that run from the SE coast all the way south to the Cornish coastline during the Cod spawning season. B. The adoption of square mesh panels on all Irish trawlers. C. The voluntary use of 100ml mesh size on codends (the legal size is much smaller at

Will you find out the numbers for the area where the cod numbers are healthy?

Certainly off the Cork Harbour/east marks there are very few cod on the ground (angling obviously). Over the last few years the "cod run" in the winter has been hit and miss. We had decent action last year for a time but this year it has been very poor.

I hope it's not like the Grand Banks where improved technology meant catches were great... But in real terms the boats were just able to locate and catch the last few remaining fish efficiently!

I hope it's not like the Grand Banks where improved technology meant catches were great... But in real terms the boats were just able to locate and catch the last few remaining fish efficiently!

That's more like it. Coupled with a softening-up PR campaign that there are "loads of fish out there", so they can get the go-ahead to hoover up the few that actually are there.

On mesh sizes etc, the idea that the industry will regulate itself is a joke. That's the argument the bankers used 10 years ago....

I do not believe that any industry should regulate itself, yes it is a joke.

However, I think many in the industry have gone away from the thinking that the sea is an infinite resource and wish it to be regulated better.

That is the remit of politicians and the EU.

In the commercial industry news of good catches is generally old news, as no one wants to reveal where they are currently getting good catches.

The good Cod fishing from a commercial point of view is always in Feb and March.
The boats were getting big catches approximately 10 miles south of the gas field and also on the south side of the Labadie bank.
Not exactly conducive to angling.

At present the fleet are getting good Haddock catches in the areas to the east and north of the gasfield.

Difficult to give numbers as a trawler can cover many miles of ground in a days fishing.
As far as inshore is concerned the Cod run has gone, however if I was to venture a guess at a likely spot I would suggest the area just south or SE of the Ling Rocks where the bottom slopes off to between 35 and 40 fathoms.
This was often a good area when I look at my past records.

Many in the industry have gone away from the thinking that the sea is an infinite resource and wish it to be regulated better. That is the remit of politicians and the EU.

Wish I could believe that. But I spent a few of my younger years in the business and could see that big trawling is a get-rich-quick goldrush activity driven by a buccaneer mindset: grab the lot before somebody else does. As to the "remit", isnt that a bit like burglars telling themselves: "Its not up to us to stop what we do, the guards should be better at catching us."

At present the fleet are getting good Haddock catches.

I'm reading that haddock have "spike" breeding years. Word gets round the fleet, the young fish get hoovered up and never make it into the mature stock, and the next few years there's no fish again. How self-regulating is that?

A trawler can cover many miles of ground in a days fishing.

That's the problem, a handful of rogue skippers with modern computer-run destroyers can do a lot of damage even if others are law-abiding.


Sadly I only see two possible ways forward: 1. Large set-aside areas with no commercial activity allowed, easily policed by technology. 2. Aquaculture. Its not good news at the moment, but surely R&D can find ways to make it workable and safe? That way the market can be supplied without creating more marine deserts.

There getting good catches of common dolphin off Mayo I see. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/postmortems-show-dolphins-got-entangled-in-fishery-gear-off-mayo-1.1372818

Problem with aquaculture is that fish farms require large amounts of fish food!
This generally comes from industrial fishing, the most destructive fishing of the lot!!

You are correct about the Haddock they do come in spikes, from 1976 to 1989 they were absent from the south coast and the juvenile stock reappeared the following two years and then the larger fish the year after.

This occurrence has repeated itself in historical catches.

At present they are the single most important species for many south coast single net trawlers in the 14-23 meter range.

As regards laws and regulation in relation to Irish fisheries, who do you suggest should make the changes if the politicians and fishermen are left out of it?

Set aside No Take Zones are an excellent idea and have been used successfully in NZ for several years.

This is something that needs to be prioritised at EU level.

Problem is that at EU level fisheries gets mixed up with other trading activities and the nitty gritty never gets sorted out.
As long as maximising world food production is a priority, I expect nothing will be done that will hinder fish production.

At EU level fisheries gets mixed up with other trading activities and the nitty gritty never gets sorted out.
As long as maximising world food production is a priority, I expect nothing will be done that will hinder fish production.

Depressingly true.

Problem with aquaculture is that fish farms require large amounts of fish food!
This generally comes from industrial fishing, the most destructive fishing of the lot!!

Also depressingly true. You'd hope tho that some form of sustainable non-damaging aquaculture could eventually be developed. If all the brainpower that goes into developing computer games was turned in that direction, we'd see a result quick enough. Was there something recently about experiments using seaweed or algae to feed farm fish (not salmon)?

As regards laws and regulation, who do you suggest should make the changes if the politicians and fishermen are left out of it?

I was talking in terms of enforcement of what's already there. What new rules would you make?

There is already an answer available for aquaculture with regard to fishmealhttp://www.agriprotein.com/. However industrial fishing is a huge business with huge profits - the links between aquaculture and fish meal production are strong so it is unlikely that anything will be allowed to break into the market. Fishmeal is only one side of the story though - you still have chemicals, faeces, lice (salmon), escapees etc etc.

This is looking likely to approved very soon which could open the floodgates for who knows what with regard to fish farming http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/03/05/184874/activists-fight-fda-approval-of.html

"As long as maximising world food production is a priority"

this is absolute rubbish - its maximising PROFITABLE world food production - always was and always will be

if your goal is to maximise global food production to feed people - then conversion of land based farming away from meat protein production to plant protein and nutrient production would solve this problem readily - just theres not as much money it...

then there would not be a need to hoover up the seas aswell - we could go catching massive fish on rod and line - happy days!

if your goal is to maximise global food production to feed people - then conversion of land based farming away from meat protein production to plant protein and nutrient production would solve this problem readily - just theres not as much money it...

Theres not enough agricultural land nor enough freshwater available in the world for the population to be fed on plant protein. The production of animal/fish protein is the only way forward and like it or not the most effiecent of all when production per unit area is taken into account is Aquaculture. Thats why the Chinese produce more fish than anyone else.

Caz

definetly not for animal protein - the world could be easily fed
you have to have plant production first that requires water and land to feed the livestock?
can you advise on references to animal protein being more effecient than plant

maybe for fish protein i am not as well veresed - have you a ref or two for the effecient aquaculture please?