Bass angling on RTE1

Thanks for the words - a lot of valid points made here and whilst all of them could not be accommodated in a short section of a TV program they could be adopted on a wider scale into the future.

If anything it demonstrated the cohesive strength and force of the FIF to many people - we can all enjoy our fishing providing the fish are there.

We can never re-capitalise the benefits of our natural heritage!

If you are a journalist, an angler, a shop keeper, a tackle dealer - what can you do to help?

Some ideas:

Write to Simon Coveney - simon.coveney@oir.ie and tell him of your investment and experiences in bass fishing in this country, ask all your angling friends to do the same
If you have travelled within Ireland and stayed overnight ask the B+B or guesthouse/hotel/restaurant/shop/pub to do the same - link the network to your bass fishing
Lobby your local politician or representative - keep copies of all correspondence
If you are a member of an ANY angling club ask the angling club secretary to write to Minister Coveney on behalf of the club and its members
If you know of any person in IFI or Failte Ireland express you concerns in writing and ask for an acknowledgement
Write about your concerns in your newspaper, magazine or website / social media
Connect to and inform if possible other conservation minded groups perhaps like The Countryside Alliance

off the wall hasnt got his ear to the ground,from what i gathered is that Irish fishermen have no quota to fish for Bass in IRISH waters but the rest of Europe has free reign on all our waters.

Well they dont have free reign within our teritorial limit which is 12 miles. They can fish outside this .

Is it possible to extend Bass fishing rights all the way out to the edge of the Exclusive economic zone (200nm)?. Surely this would be the ideal solution. Along with maintaining the inshore ban and the landing of bass in ireland, it would stop foreign trawlers too.

There are a few points that I think need clarifying

1. There is no quota for bass for any country.

2. As far as fishing is concerned Irish vessels have exclusive access only as far as 12 miles (yes I know there are some exceptions) and beyond this is common waters shared with other European countries. UK and French vessels can fish right up to the 12 mile limit but also Irish boats can fish right up to the 12 mile limit in UK and France - and some do.

3. When commercial fishermen talk about Irish waters they are often talking about our EEZ (sfpa-ie.access.secure-ssl-servers.biz/index.php?q=maps-irelands-eez). This extends to 200nmls on the west coast and is Irish territory but is shared waters when it comes to commercial fishing.

4. Ireland can place restrictions on Irish vessels inside and outside the 12 mile limit but has no rights to enforce Irish laws on other countries outside our limits. There is no chance of this changing as it is one of the core tennents of the CFP.

5. The law that prohibits Irish vessels from landing bass in offshore waters was put in place to cover any loophole where we would end up with wild Irish bass for sale. If this law was changed it would be impossible to enforce current legislation as there is no way of knowing where these bass would originate from. For example a boat on a 6 day trip may spend a day towing close to shore on the way out and maybe another on the way back in. How could you possibly prove where any bass on board came from? There would also be the problem of trans-shipping where bass caught from inshore waters could be transferred to these offshore boats and legally landed. Also, it would be very hard to argue against inshore boats who do not fish these offshore waters claiming discrimination. A complete collapse of our bass laws would be on the cards and I'm sure some in the commercial sector know and want this.

6. If the evidence showed that bass were being caught offshore in any numbers then even I would have some sympathy for the commercials. The fact is that all the evidence shows completely the opposite.

Looking at how our bass stocks collapsed the last time we had commercial fishing for them then I would suggest that if we lose our much praised bass laws our stock could be gone in one or two seasons. As anglers we can not let this happen.

I thought one of the points that came accross strongly was that with a ban in discards it will be impossible to stop Irish vessels keeping the bass that they land. I'm just wondering does anyone know has the ban on discards come in? If so does it have to apply to all species and throughout all countries or is there leeway for the Irish government to make an exception for Bass ie that any bass caught inside the 12 mile limit must be returned. I don't like seeing dead fish dumped back at sea but presumably if it's allowed to keep Bass caught as a 'bycatch' then it just opens the floodgates and they will be targeted for their high price.
It would be good to have a counter argument/proposal to put to the Minister.
Fair play Jim I thought you and Dr. Fahy came across as very balanced.
I was surprised by the comments from the Marine Institute who seemed to be suggesting a compromise between commercial and conservation interests. They pretty much rubber stamped the whole argument that Irish vessels are landing Bass when fishing for cod etc. I think most people watching this program would have got the impression that bass is a common bycatch and that a 'compromise' (presumably weakening the laws that protect Bass from commercial exploitation) is the only fair solution. I don't know a whole lot about the Marine Institute but my impression, and I'm guessing a lot of other peoples, is that they are impartial and work on scientific evidence. If they are percieved in this way their comments are a bit worrying.

Spot on John, this was my biggest concern. I also think the public also need to be informed of the slow growth of the species compared to Cod, Pollock or other common species caught in nets.


"5. The law that prohibits Irish vessels from landing Bass in offshore waters was put in place to cover any loophole where we would end up with wild Irish Bass for sale. If this law was changed it would be impossible to enforce current legislation as there is no way of knowing where these Bass would originate from. For example a boat on a 6 day trip may spend a day towing close to shore on the way out and maybe another on the way back in. How could you possibly prove where any Bass on board came from? There would also be the problem of trans-shipping where Bass caught from inshore waters could be transferred to these offshore boats and legally landed. Also, it would be very hard to argue against inshore boats who do not fish these offshore waters claiming discrimination. A complete collapse of our Bass laws would be on the cards and I'm sure some in the commercial sector know and want this."

I thought one of the points that came accross strongly was that with a ban in discards it will be impossible to stop Irish vessels keeping the Bass that they land. I'm just wondering does anyone know has the ban on discards come in? If so does it have to apply to all species and throughout all countries or is there leeway for the Irish government to make an exception for Bass ie that any Bass caught inside the 12 mile limit must be returned. I don't like seeing dead fish dumped back at sea but presumably if it's allowed to keep Bass caught as a 'bycatch' then it just opens the floodgates and they will be targeted for their high price.
It would be good to have a counter argument/proposal to put to the Minister.
Fair play Jim I thought you and Dr. Fahy came across as very balanced.
I was surprised by the comments from the Marine Institute who seemed to be suggesting a compromise between commercial and conservation interests. They pretty much rubber stamped the whole argument that Irish vessels are landing Bass when fishing for cod etc. I think most people watching this program would have got the impression that Bass is a common bycatch and that a 'compromise' (presumably weakening the laws that protect Bass from commercial exploitation) is the only fair solution. I don't know a whole lot about the Marine Institute but my impression, and I'm guessing a lot of other peoples, is that they are impartial and work on scientific evidence. If they are percieved in this way their comments are a bit worrying.

Hi daveyboy. Interestingly enough the FIF(Federation of Irish fishermen) are against the proposed discard ban. Even the UK commercial sector who worked with Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall's "Fishfight" campaign have now changed their tune and are opposing the ban on discards. Predictably commercial fishermen only want to land the "outside quota"part of their discards (about 5% of discards) which would make a mockerey of any attempt to control catches of vulnerable fish stocks. In July the EU fisheries ministers failed to agree on the details of any discard ban. Influential commercial interests are proposing that the discard bann should only apply to species that are concidered critically endangered. Of course even in this case enforcement would be virtually impossible. A complete ban on all discards would be a big problem for our bass laws but at this time a full discard ban is unlikely.
We have a much bigger problem with Dr Paul Connolly, head of fisheries science in the MI. He has spent all his life working with commercial fishermen. His understanding of marine fish management is based entirely around commercial expliotation. He also meets with commercials on a weekly basis and not suprisingly would have built up personal relationships with some of them. He is under conciderable pressure to sort the "bass issue" and he does not see leaving things as they are as sorting the problem. Some of you may remember he wrote a "scientific" report in 2009 that reccomended a change to our bass laws. I met him to discuss this report and thanks to the help of others was able to rubbish the report in front of him. He still refused to withdraw this report. Thanks to the efforts of hundreds of Irish and visiting anglers he did not get his way. Unfortunately he is very influential and I believe he is still trying to get his way in spite of all the evidence about bass stocks that he has been made aware of.
The big problem is that of course the public and decision makers will believe what they are told by "experts". I will be meeting Minister Fergus O Dowd on monday and I plan to tell him our side of the story but unlike some in the commercial sector I have plenty hard facts to back it up.

Hi daveyboy. Interestingly enough the FIF(Federation of Irish fishermen) are against the proposed discard ban. Even the UK commercial sector who worked with Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall's "Fishfight" campaign have now changed their tune and are opposing the ban on discards. Predictably commercial fishermen only want to land the "outside quota"part of their discards (about 5% of discards) which would make a mockerey of any attempt to control catches of vulnerable fish stocks. In July the EU fisheries ministers failed to agree on the details of any discard ban. Influential commercial interests are proposing that the discard bann should only apply to species that are concidered critically endangered. Of course even in this case enforcement would be virtually impossible. A complete ban on all discards would be a big problem for our Bass laws but at this time a full discard ban is unlikely.
We have a much bigger problem with Dr Paul Connolly, head of fisheries science in the MI. He has spent all his life working with commercial fishermen. His understanding of marine fish management is based entirely around commercial expliotation. He also meets with commercials on a weekly basis and not suprisingly would have built up personal relationships with some of them. He is under conciderable pressure to sort the "Bass issue" and he does not see leaving things as they are as sorting the problem. Some of you may remember he wrote a "scientific" report in 2009 that reccomended a change to our Bass laws. I met him to discuss this report and thanks to the help of others was able to rubbish the report in front of him. He still refused to withdraw this report. Thanks to the efforts of hundreds of Irish and visiting anglers he did not get his way. Unfortunately he is very influential and I believe he is still trying to get his way in spite of all the evidence about Bass stocks that he has been made aware of.
The big problem is that of course the public and decision makers will believe what they are told by "experts". I will be meeting Minister Fergus O Dowd on monday and I plan to tell him our side of the story but unlike some in the commercial sector I have plenty hard facts to back it up.

John, it refreshing to read this , you seem to have a firm grasp of the situation on a whole and I hope you can just make the MInisters, commercial sector etc. see some sense...

Hi daveyboy. Interestingly enough the FIF(Federation of Irish fishermen) are against the proposed discard ban. Even the UK commercial sector who worked with Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall's "Fishfight" campaign have now changed their tune and are opposing the ban on discards. Predictably commercial fishermen only want to land the "outside quota"part of their discards (about 5% of discards) which would make a mockerey of any attempt to control catches of vulnerable fish stocks. In July the EU fisheries ministers failed to agree on the details of any discard ban. Influential commercial interests are proposing that the discard bann should only apply to species that are concidered critically endangered. Of course even in this case enforcement would be virtually impossible. A complete ban on all discards would be a big problem for our Bass laws but at this time a full discard ban is unlikely.
We have a much bigger problem with Dr Paul Connolly, head of fisheries science in the MI. He has spent all his life working with commercial fishermen. His understanding of marine fish management is based entirely around commercial expliotation. He also meets with commercials on a weekly basis and not suprisingly would have built up personal relationships with some of them. He is under conciderable pressure to sort the "Bass issue" and he does not see leaving things as they are as sorting the problem. Some of you may remember he wrote a "scientific" report in 2009 that reccomended a change to our Bass laws. I met him to discuss this report and thanks to the help of others was able to rubbish the report in front of him. He still refused to withdraw this report. Thanks to the efforts of hundreds of Irish and visiting anglers he did not get his way. Unfortunately he is very influential and I believe he is still trying to get his way in spite of all the evidence about Bass stocks that he has been made aware of.
The big problem is that of course the public and decision makers will believe what they are told by "experts". I will be meeting Minister Fergus O Dowd on monday and I plan to tell him our side of the story but unlike some in the commercial sector I have plenty hard facts to back it up.

Well said John. I watched the programme last night and was dismayed to see Paul Connolly come out with that claptrap - for a supposedly impartial scientist he is clearly compromised by his relationship with the commercial industry and should not be allowed to advise on this issue. Problem is he's a highly intelligent guy, who talks a very good game - I've had lectures from him in the distant past and have to say he was one of the clearest, most concise and understandable communicators I've ever learned from. I'm very worried that he will persuade the minister to allow a return to commercial exploitation. Keep up the fight, and if you need any help let me know, whatever I can do...

Spot on John, this was my biggest concern. I also think the public also need to be informed of the slow growth of the species compared to Cod, Pollock or other common species caught in nets.

i totally agree if the slow growth argument is used it covers the quick cash open it up argument - the whole point of the ban was a few good seasons kill off the stock once again

however when the camera is in your face and they can edit away whatever they like then some good points can get lost

well done to ye - at least it wasnt too clear cut what the commercials wanted

as always it would have been nice to hear a few figures quoted aswell

Hi daveyboy. Interestingly enough the FIF(Federation of Irish fishermen) are against the proposed discard ban. Even the UK commercial sector who worked with Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall's "Fishfight" campaign have now changed their tune and are opposing the ban on discards. Predictably commercial fishermen only want to land the "outside quota"part of their discards (about 5% of discards) which would make a mockerey of any attempt to control catches of vulnerable fish stocks. In July the EU fisheries ministers failed to agree on the details of any discard ban. Influential commercial interests are proposing that the discard bann should only apply to species that are concidered critically endangered. Of course even in this case enforcement would be virtually impossible. A complete ban on all discards would be a big problem for our Bass laws but at this time a full discard ban is unlikely.
We have a much bigger problem with Dr Paul Connolly, head of fisheries science in the MI. He has spent all his life working with commercial fishermen. His understanding of marine fish management is based entirely around commercial expliotation. He also meets with commercials on a weekly basis and not suprisingly would have built up personal relationships with some of them. He is under conciderable pressure to sort the "Bass issue" and he does not see leaving things as they are as sorting the problem. Some of you may remember he wrote a "scientific" report in 2009 that reccomended a change to our Bass laws. I met him to discuss this report and thanks to the help of others was able to rubbish the report in front of him. He still refused to withdraw this report. Thanks to the efforts of hundreds of Irish and visiting anglers he did not get his way. Unfortunately he is very influential and I believe he is still trying to get his way in spite of all the evidence about Bass stocks that he has been made aware of.
The big problem is that of course the public and decision makers will believe what they are told by "experts". I will be meeting Minister Fergus O Dowd on monday and I plan to tell him our side of the story but unlike some in the commercial sector I have plenty hard facts to back it up.

I was just having a look at your website there about that meeting. So was it the case that the information on estimates of stocks was all based on what the commercials were telling them? That's very worrying but I have to say it's reassuring to see the work you're doing and that you're not letting them away with it.. I must have a good look at your site. Seems to be lots of info.

Daveyboy, If Paul Connolly had used what he was told be the commercials it would be bad enough but in fact much of the data reported in his "scientific study" seemed to be pulled out of fresh air and in several cases the references he used to justify his points were completely out of context or simply wrong.Before the meeting I contacted one very influential scientist (Dr Mike Pawson) whose work was used in several places to justify Connolly's call for a change to our laws and he was appalled that his work was being used where it should not have been. In spite of all this Connollys report still stands and he has not changed his view on getting our bass laws changed.
I don't think I am on his Christmas card list!

Daveyboy, If Paul Connolly had used what he was told be the commercials it would be bad enough but in fact much of the data reported in his "scientific study" seemed to be pulled out of fresh air and in several cases the references he used to justify his points were completely out of context or simply wrong.Before the meeting I contacted one very influential scientist (Dr Mike Pawson) whose work was used in several places to justify Connolly's call for a change to our laws and he was appalled that his work was being used where it should not have been. In spite of all this Connollys report still stands and he has not changed his view on getting our Bass laws changed.
I don't think I am on his Christmas card list!

!! just as well for Dr. Fahys contribution so... best of luck with the meeting with the Minister

Just for clarification purposes what was omitted from the program

Helen interviewed me for approximately 15 minutes

The following subjects were discussed at length and with considerable passion

o The life cycle of the fish and its consequences
o The rapid deterioration of the population prior to 1989
o The only partial recovery of the fish population to date
o Anglers participation in C+R and the regulations
o The importance of C+R and larger female fish
o The importance in theory of a closed season on specific locations
o Bass angling economic activity
o National angling economic input to the fishery (estimated)
o International angling economic input to the fishery (actual)
o Social well being
o Irelands leading status in a twenty year investment towards protection and promotion
o The bass angling supply chain and network

Jim, for what it is worth I think you did a great job with your interview. Getting the lady from the B&B involved shows people the link between bass angling and jobs, something many members of the public fail to understand. Well done.

I've just caught up with myself and finally managed to catch this on the RTE iPlayer. You're looking fit and active as ever, Jim!

One thing I picked up on and I don't think it's been mentioned here yet is the commercial fisherman who wants the ban lifted, then open season on the Bass for a few years to establish a stock baseline before bringing in consetvation measures that would enable the fishery to be managed sustainably for the benefit of both commercial and recreational fishers. He sounded practically reasonable and considerate about it..........

In other words, plunder the stock and then have conservation.

You couldn't make it up.

Email sent to Simon Covney:

Subject: A Voter in your constituency- Please dont destroy bass fishing

Hi my name is Kevin Lonergan.
I live in Cork city. Im angered when I hear that You could be responsible for wiping out bass in irish waters! I am a pasionate recreational fisher. I regularly drive to ballycotton, ardmore, dungarvan, and other further trips to wexford and kerry just to fish. I spend a fortune on petrol, resturants, fishing tackle- of which the state, and local econmy benefits from. I have spent on ocassions up to 14hours fishing in one day... my reward was the pleasure of catching the slow growing majestic bass.

If You destroy bass fishing, my passion, I Promise to never again to vote for you.

Fishing is the number one sport in the world, dont destroy it, promote it.

Everybody seems to be very worried about Bass at the moment. That's fine, each to their own. I'm far more concerned with the fact that you can't catch Ray in Kiloughter anymore, that Coalfish and Cod seem to have disappeared from the East Coast, that Mackeral are being caught in ever declining numbers and getting increasingly smaller. I'm worried why the federation feels it necessary to talk about introducing a 15cm size limit for all competitions. I wonder what direction fishing is heading in, when my club has fished 3 competitions so far this season and not a single round fish has been measured above or at the 30cm size limit that was in place not so many years ago. It really worries me when I hear that some of the best anglers in the country have put in a lot of time in the Wexford estuaries in pursuit of winter Flounder and have not had so much as a tap - baits coming in completely untouched.

This issue is way bigger than just Bass. If you want to talk about angling tourism then maybe you should ask the hundreds of UK anglers that come over every year to fish competitions why they are here. Or the anglers that come over to fish from charter boats. I meet many anglers from the UK every year in Kerry who are here for Ray and Tope. They take in a boat trip while they are here, fish for Conger, Pollack and Wrasse from the rock marks and usually hit the Wexford beaches on the way back to Rosslare for Smoothies. It's the variety of fishing that attracts them to Ireland. It's also the craic they have. They love having a pint and chatting with the locals. They love the whole hospitality they receive when they are here.

All these issues have to be embraced to solve the problem. Anglers have a viewpoint and so do the commercial fishermen. A lot of anglers come to Ireland to fish for Bass, but you know what? A lot come to fish for other species as well. It ain't just about Bass!!

Everybody seems to be very worried about Bass at the moment. That's fine, each to their own. I'm far more concerned with the fact that you can't catch Ray in Kiloughter anymore, that Coalfish and Cod seem to have disappeared from the East Coast, that Mackeral are being caught in ever declining numbers and getting increasingly smaller. I'm worried why the federation feels it necessary to talk about introducing a 15cm size limit for all competitions. I wonder what direction fishing is heading in, when my club has fished 3 competitions so far this season and not a single round fish has been measured above or at the 30cm size limit that was in place not so many years ago. It really worries me when I hear that some of the best anglers in the country have put in a lot of time in the Wexford estuaries in pursuit of winter Flounder and have not had so much as a tap - baits coming in completely untouched.

This issue is way bigger than just Bass. If you want to talk about angling tourism then maybe you should ask the hundreds of UK anglers that come over every year to fish competitions why they are here. Or the anglers that come over to fish from charter boats. I meet many anglers from the UK every year in Kerry who are here for Ray and Tope. They take in a boat trip while they are here, fish for Conger, Pollack and Wrasse from the rock marks and usually hit the Wexford beaches on the way back to Rosslare for Smoothies. It's the variety of fishing that attracts them to Ireland. It's also the craic they have. They love having a pint and chatting with the locals. They love the whole hospitality they receive when they are here.

All these issues have to be embraced to solve the problem. Anglers have a viewpoint and so do the commercial fishermen. A lot of anglers come to Ireland to fish for Bass, but you know what? A lot come to fish for other species as well. It ain't just about Bass!!

Very true

Hi pollockius virens,
All the points your raise are very valid. I too fish for many other species and have seen a major decline right accross the board. The reason there is so much "fuss" about bass is that if is the only marine fish in Europe that is reserved for anglers and only in one country. If we cannot hold on to our bass laws we have no hope whatsoever of having any influence with any other sea fish. It may come as a suprise to many but according to the EU's own figures sea angling is worth more to the economy of the EU than the total value of all the commercial catch (10 billion euros a year compared to 6 billion euros) and yet all sea fish are managed just for the commercial sector. There is a simple reason for this. We as anglers do not work together to demand a better deal for the money we spend.
I spend much of my time trying to get the voice of bass anglers heard but I would be delighted to help and support anybody who wants to spread this further and try to get a better deal for all sea anglers. But more people need to step up to the plate.
There are several countries where the needs of sea anglers are at the core of how fish are managed (particularly the USA). In most cases this came about because of collapses in fish stocks and then anglers got their foot in the door and then took control. I believe that we are now at that point with many stocks in Ireland.
There are 8 to 10 million sea anglers in Europe.If we stood together things would change dramatically. If we don't do it now then when will we?

I seem to have clashed with John Q's reply but anyway my views on the issue for what they're worth are below:

No it's not just about bass but we currently have legislation in place protecting bass and it might be an idea to try to hold onto it. If it goes not only will the bass suffer but a valuable precedent that might be applied to other species will no longer exist. John Quinlan has managed to set up Irish Bass and he should in my opinion be supported. Without him the bass legislation might have been repealed already due to the 2009 Marine Institute report. He has gone to the trouble and expense of gathering research and developing invaluable contacts with academics, the govt, the media and others.

Like other members when I saw the M.I. spokesperson on the show I knew we were in big trouble. Instead of offering a scientific opinion like you would expect he seemed to offer a political opinion. Basically that both sides should sort it out amongst themselves. That might seem impartial to some viewers but is of course in fact supporting commercial fishing for bass. This is very serious as it gives the Minister an easy way out if he decides to let the commercials have their way. The old following the scientific advice line. Which is fine if this advice is both impartial and based on rigorous studies. But is it?

If there is another chance to appear on TV I think it would help to have a spokesperson from Irish Bass on the prog. (that person doesn't have to be John). This would help us to appear more united and organised. I already mentioned asking Failte Ireland or IFI to provide a spokesperson as this would add strength to the tourism/economic argument. They might wish to steer clear but it wouldn't hurt to ask/badger them! These comments are meant to be constructive by the way. As I said already Jim H, Dr. Fahy and the guesthouse owner all did a great job but if you have spokespeople from organisations it presents better to the public. The fishermen had a very effective spokeswoman from the FIF. The commercials are very organised and very effective at spinning the argument their way for public consumption. Of course they have money, resources and the FIF behind them.

I like others have written to different govt ministers both here and in NI over the last few years and have spread the word re John's Irish Bass organisation on UK forums. Anyone who hasn't yet written to the Fisheries Minister might want to consider doing so. I think John may have a letter on his site you can use although a short letter in your own words will carry more weight. It may also help to write to the Tourism Minister and as Jim H has said your TD.

Walter












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