Look after your wrasse - a salutary lesson from Donegal

Lads, ye know fine well that some of the posts on here go way over the line - so please don't make any more. Rant and rave all you like about FNs and their fishing practices, but don't go beyond that. Meanwhile, a fishing mark being wiped out is such a serious event that I'm not going to mod edit this thread untill my hangover clears and my head stops hurting.

So, behave yourselves, eh?

Ta.

just to put this in perspective. in the philippines there are islands completly devoid of fish. they have to go out 20 miles to fish for even small fish because of this there is also no sea birds.this has happened because of hunger and a dependence on the small fish that lived on the reefs which was wiped out along with shell fish ,crabs,and anything else that moved under water.when you kill off the young fish it is only common sense that there will be none to continue to adulthood.i watched garda last year in coolock arrest fns on the football fields beside northside shopping centre.netting greenland geese.these birds are regular visitors to this area and come in there hundreds.they have also arrested them for taking swans off the canals.these birds are all protected by laws.why not our small fish. if for instance a bunch of eskimos arrived in dublin and stsrted to kill off the seals would everybody just stand back and let it happen just like we are today.i think not every paper and tv station would be down on the pier and calling for a stop to it.as other posters have highlighted they abide by the rules in ther homelands but flaunt them here only because we let them

found this video recently, behavior like that seems to be epidemic unfortunately

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EpPeiyYGwTI

have to say in there defense none of them were drinking on the pier why?because its against the law to drink in a public place in uk. and this law is enforced. try to imagine the same senario in howth 50 or sixty fns all drunk and fishing over each others heads on rocks. fires going cooking fish.and bullying out anybody else that tries to get down to fish.there are regular fist fights over "this is my spot" and" i was here all week"my argument with these lads are the size of there fish not the amount they take.they make a soup of everything no matter what the size or the species and that includes bass.when we go fishing, size is the first thing we think of when we pull in a fish. is it regulation size?are we going to eat it?9 times out of 10 we release the fish as quickly as possible with the thought "send me your mother or father " the fish these guys are keeping dont even come in to our minds there minnows, babies,all for a soup you can buy in any supermarket for less than 2 euros.

had the same problem here in waterford as soon as the recession hit very good marks for wrasse turned up barely any decent fish ,about the same time certain people started appearing in the area

Fair play Gerry for letting it run, it's good to see the forum allowing people to fully express their opinions, guess it shows how annoyed anglers around the country are about these people. I seriously think that the quality of wrasse shore angling around this islands rock marks will plummet or rather is plummeting thanks to eastern europeans catching and killing the species, as Al/Jordan pointed out they are a slow growing territorial species. From what I've head from other wrasse anglers and seen first hand myself a lot of the famous wrasse shore marks like Kerry Head, Bridges of Ross and St. John's Point are now targetted by eastern europeans in order to kill wrasse to butcher and consume at home. I think we'll look back in years to come and actually rue that we let this great sport fish get such a hammering.......

hi pete,

as you mentioned clare above i can reassure you wrasse are still super abundant for the boat angler,
and a fun species to catch. around this time of year they migrate out to slightly deeper water
and december can be one of the best months for targetting them from the boat. this might explain
why they have left your mark?

i cant see how shore anglers could have much effect on the population since they can only have
access from one of two restricted points.

in fact in my opinion anything done with rod and line in sea fishing is completely irrelevant
compared the discards and catches from commercial fishing, so maybe the impressive display
of moral outrage would be better directed at people shopping for fish in Tescos?

Pete you should join hugh fearnley and help to target the rest of the few species that arent commercially destroyed, dab and dogfish a pest species no more:mrgreen:

Rod liencence!! Simple, If people love their fishing why not pay for it and become a stakeholder in our inshore fish stocks,
It could give us a lobbying voice and also fund some sort of protection against this carry on.

I would gladly pay a rod licence, to ensure the future of sea fishing for my son and daughters and their kids. But again this would mean proper Size and bag limits of species, and impressing upon every tourist that these laws will be abided. BUT everyone knows that our political will is weak, and I would be terrified of giving this Government anymore money incase it found its way into another bloody bank loan!!!
As someone said earlier its not about education as they are aware of the issues, its about greed. at the end of the day if it was about food i'd have a little more compassion, BUT in various stores food can be bought for less the price of a train ticket or bus fare that it costs to get to some of these marks!! so plain and simple its greed..

hi pete,

as you mentioned clare above i can reassure you wrasse are still super abundant for the boat angler,
and a fun species to catch. around this time of year they migrate out to slightly deeper water
and december can be one of the best months for targetting them from the boat. this might explain
why they have left your mark?

Im sure wrasse are 'super abundant' for boat anglers in lots of other parts of the country.....but these 'people'(i used that word very loosely here) dont have boats so its us the shore anglers that will suffer most

I was telling a mate about what myself and Pete witnessed in Donegal and he was telling me about a recent trip to Valentia Island.. He was saying that one part of the island is very heavily fished by the FN`s for wrasse and pollack.
He was saying that when the boat was in close(easy casting distance) the fishing was very very poor..But when the boat was a few hundred yards out the fishing was fantastic!!! Hmmm strange that....i wonder why????

i cant see how shore anglers could have much effect on the population since they can only have
access from one of two restricted points.

If 'they' can only have access from one or two restricted point then so will 'we'
As someone said earlier wrasse are very territorial so if one or two of these restricted points get hammered then it could be a long long time before it recovers!!! Why should we let that happen??
How many wrasse do you think would inhabit a spot say 50 yrds long and 50 yards wide??
I recon they took around 60 fish from this one spot

in fact in my opinion anything done with rod and line in sea fishing is completely irrelevant
compared the discards and catches from commercial fishing, so maybe the impressive display
of moral outrage would be better directed at people shopping for fish in Tescos?

Yes trawlers do s**t loads of damage but the actions of these idiots isn`t helping


On the subject of a licence i would be willing to pay good money if i thought it would help prevent this sort of thing..
I was interviewed(along with another forum member ) by UTV news a numbers years ago about the proposal of a Sea Angilng Licence..We were only given 5 mins to think of what to say!! At the time i said it could maybe damage tourisum if folks on holiday had to pay money to fish for a few hours while here..
Now however i think if all the good marks get wiped out then why would anyone even want to come to this beautiful island for a fishing holiday??

Imagine if there was no good bass fishing left..Henry Gilbey and his entourage wouldn`t come and promote the fishing here
Then nobody would read about the excellent fishing and would book their hols to somewhere else!!!
Just a thought every little helps

Oh i nearly forgot!!

I was talking to the Eastern European guy i work with(lets say he`s polish ) and he was telling me about a big lake beside his house..
When he was about 13 the lake was full of fish..pike,eels,perch etc. They would go down with a pole and a piece of string and dangle a worm and catch something for tea..
Now there are no fish left to catch!!
His family have lived on the shores of that lake for generations and nobody remembers fishing being so bad
Apparently locals from nearby towns have been raping it for the last 15 years and now its empty


There`s a message in there somewhere!! See if all you disbelievers can see it

again this is an old topic. why should we pay for a license? you pay a tax on everything you buy.your tackle, all your baits,your fuel,your car,enough is enough.if for one minute i thought that a license fee would be put to restock juvinile fish or maybe construct reefs around the coasts id be the first to put my hand in my pocket. but as expirence has shown us it would be used to send a lazy shower of gobshites on courses in australia to learn how to be lazier.lets look at the states where a permit is bought to go out in a boat bass fishing. this must be bought each time you go out.you are allowed to keep 2 fish for eating (fine) but you can only keep the species you have bought the permit for.this means hundreds are thrown back dead each day . because the skipper will be fined for each illiegal fish. and any more than three in a week his boat is suspended for a week. this is well policed all bags checked back on the dock. but the monies all go in to the restocking and development of there angling industry.i woulent like to see this happen here, but there is no doubt it works well around the states . the man made reefs attract thousands of divers and anglers each year giving incomes and taxes to up keep and run this smoothly. but i see this as plastic fishing, like seafishing in a trout farm. what needs to be done is a law that states no fish under 12" or 14" for some species should be taken and a large fine attached to it.like with salmon poachers 500 to 1000 euros first offence or a custodial sentence for a repeat offence with deportation(for non nationals) after a few have gone through the courts it might bring the message home.everyday we surrender back to big brother our rights and freedom that our forefathers died trying to protect. the sea has been a source of food and pleasure for anglers since the beginning of time.t and i feel if we have to start paying a fee to fish in it we would be surrendering to to a few greedy people who dont contribute in any way to this country.as all the money they earn goes abroad.but a law is needed quickly before its to late

there seems to be one massive oversight when it comes to a sea licence lads. lets say that under the best possible case scenario we did have an influx of money come in and more bailiffs were employed to police our shorelines and harbours. you are all living in la la land if you honestly think that any council, under health and safety laws would send any employee out to inspect a rock mark. we've seen it highlighted with the litter issue. it just would'nt happen. and this is one of the areas hardest hit by this scum who kill everything regardless of size or species
so it would'nt take the offenders too long to work out to steer clear of harbour marks and move on mass to out of the way rock marks to do more damage.
this seems to have been the case in the last 2 years or so now that the loughs, rivers, dams and canals are off limits to these guys when clubs and fisheries boards clamped down on them and their activities.
they have just moved from freshwater slaughter to sea water slaughter.
sorry to sound so negative, but i'm just being pragmatic .

can anyone really see fns buying a license considering there track records????

and a large fine attached to it.like with salmon poachers 500 to 1000 euros first offence or a custodial sentence for a repeat offence with deportation(for non nationals)

I agree with some of what ye a re saying twinkle, but for poachers i would rather see the fines starting at about 5000 to 7500 euros along with the confiscation of any boat/vehicle and any other items used. These thugs can make 500 euros easily with one nights poaching. As for the licence, i would gladly pay for it as long as areas are policed like those that have good seatrout/salmon stocks. If for talk sake it was 100 quid, thats less than 2 quid a week. I know that we pay through the nose for a lot of things, but this would be for fishing, the one thing that we all have in common here and if ye have to pay for a licence, it will give ye a bit of a voice because the game fishermen have let it be known about things and the fisheries have reacted quickly because after all, it pays there wages. As for tourism as someone else mentioned, i'm sure that b&b's, hotels and local tourist offices can make arrangements for free passes for tourists from overseas if needed, but i think that someone who has spent a more than a grand to get here wont mind a few quid for a day/week pass. It will cost less than a few pints in some of the places they will eat/drink in. But, we will be having the same argument next year, the year after etc.

and a large fine attached to it.like with salmon poachers 500 to 1000 euros first offence or a custodial sentence for a repeat offence with deportation(for non nationals)

I agree with some of what ye a re saying twinkle, but for poachers i would rather see the fines starting at about 5000 to 7500 euros along with the confiscation of any boat/vehicle and any other items used. These thugs can make 500 euros easily with one nights poaching. As for the licence, i would gladly pay for it as long as areas are policed like those that have good seatrout/salmon stocks. If for talk sake it was 100 quid, thats less than 2 quid a week. I know that we pay through the nose for a lot of things, but this would be for fishing, the one thing that we all have in common here and if ye have to pay for a licence, it will give ye a bit of a voice because the game fishermen have let it be known about things and the fisheries have reacted quickly because after all, it pays there wages.

we all pay their wages in one form or another. they dont need more staff either just restructure the ones they have. a simple way of policing would be to have ramdom checks on bags by fisheries at harbours with sign posts giving prohibited fish sizes at venues .even just for the summer months. or a complete ban on fishing harbours giving small fish a better chance of surviving to reach adulthood.

But, we will be having the same argument next year, the year after etc.

Too true...or until the fish stocks dry up

Been noticing a lot of blanks reported and not reported on the east coast.... I know the winds have been playin havoc on this side but still makes the mind wonder when you read stuff like this..

something needs to be done (legal wise!!!!!) Id say the best approach is the size limit, but it would effect deep hooked fish though.

just copped this on another site
In Spain there is no true national licencing system but you do need a regional licence. The price of the licence will vary from 5€ - 12€. You can buy a Spanish licence (licencia de pesca) at the fishing department of the regional administrative office.

SEA FISHING in Torrevieja

In order to fish from a small boat, in the harbour or off the breakwater or rocks along the coastline, you should first be in possession of a licence to carry out the activity. The licence, called a 'Licencia de Pesca - Maritima de Recreo' costs a little less than a freshwater licence and is valid for a period of either one or three years. There are no 'short term' licences available.

In order to apply for a sea fishing licence, a visit to the provincial capital is necessary. Application should be made at:

Servicio Territorial de Agricultura, Pesca y Alimentacion',
Calle Profesor Manuel Sala, no. 2,
Alicante.

Applicants are required to fill out the fairly simple application form and to produce a current identity card, resident's card or passport. the relevant fee will have to be paid in to a local bank and a paying-in slip will be provided at the time of application.

If you have some Spanish then the process should be easier. However, bureaucracy in Spain can be a bit of an ordeal so be prepared for a fairly lengthy procedure and perhaps talking to more than one official.

I can't say that enforcement of licences in the Torrevieja area is carried out but if you have one then you can relax and enjoy your fishing.


Buena Suerte!
Last edited by arvanduin; 27-09-2005 at 23:27.

28-09-2005, 08:06 #3
caster
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Thats excellent information, thanks very much, i did not miss the gist of the last sentence, and as i will be fishing from a quiet part of Playa Flamenca or Cabo Roig i will give that some thought, otherwise it's a 45 min drive to Alicante, finding somewhere to park running around between government building and bank, god, would it be worth the hassle ?

Again many thanks for your invaluable input

gracias tanto, puede su barra sea doblada para siempre y su línea apretada

29-09-2005, 06:53 #4
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hi caster
it took me 5 months to get my liscence caster so .

29-09-2005, 08:02 #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caster
otherwise it's a 45 min drive to Alicante, finding somewhere to park running around between government building and bank, god, would it be worth the hassle ?
Err, yes. We had to do just that in Santa Cruz (Teneriffe) - spent a whole morning, not helped by the licensing office sending us to the wrong bank first off.

However, the licences for the Canaries are valid for FIVE years, so the exercise doesn't have to be repeated very often.

Although we have never been asked to show our licences, falling foul of Spanish law is definitely to be avoided.

29-09-2005, 09:16 #6
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begining to wonder if it's worth the trouble

La pena buena,

14-08-2008, 19:01 #7
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I managed to get a license to fish from the shore in Murcia fairly easily in just 4 days.
I got mine from the Aventilla? Unica desk in the local town hall. They require passport, 2 fotocopies of passport (1 if under 14s) 2 passport photos, filling in of a form (2 for under 14s, by parent) they then give you 2 printouts of the details which you then take to one of the banks listed on the bottom of the form. At the bank you pay the tax shown on the form, in my case 3 euros 50 for 5 years!! (under 14s only get 1 year license but it is free!). Once paid you return to the town hall and they give you a piece of paper which allows you to fish from that day (get there early and you can do it in less than half a day. Some desks for this close at lunch time for the day so first thing in the morning is best). Tell them you want to collect the license rather them post it (they will only post to Spanish addresses anyway and they do need a Spanish address to process the application. So you may need to use the holiday address). I was told to collect in 3 -4 days and I did.
Bear in mind a license bought in Murcia is not valid in for example, Alicante. So if you want to fish in more than one region, you must obtain that regions license. So before you start fishing check the regions borders on a local tourist map (easily obtained from a gift shop etc.) Also a boat or coarse etc license does not cover shore or vice versa, so be sure to be clear about the type of fishing you want to do. My guess is that diffrent town halls operate differently and so if you are looking at another region other than Murcia you may have to pay more or wait longer etc. The staff on the desk I bought mine from did not speak English either, so if you can speak Spanish, it will be a bonus!
I have heard that the Policia do regularly check for licenses with a 90 euros fine if you don't have one so I would recommend getting one.
You also require a license for spear fishing.
Buena suerte!

16-08-2008, 23:09 #8
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I fished off the Spanish coast on and off for fifteen years with a French registered boat. It was impossible to get a Spanish inshore licence with a French registration, so we relied on my 400hp to beat the guarda costa, and it worked on the one occasion in those fifteen years they bothered to try to intercept before we reached French waters.

Not terribly relevant to your case, but from friend's experience in Catalonia, as long as you shore fish well away from the tourist beaches you shouldn't be troubled by officialdom.

I used to come close (20-30 metres) under the Rosas bay cliffs to catch Gilthead Bream on Hokkai for livebait for tuna, well within shore casting range; It's deep water, but the shoals are usually found at 10-20 metres. If you're further down the coast, I can't help.



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seeking advice for beach fishing in Spain

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It will take a lot more than them to wipe out an area... dont worry about that.

Although wrasse are territorial they cover a very large area...much bigger than 50m by 50m could be any number of reasons that 60 were in that area but I doubt if it was natural. There is also an unlimited number of reasons why a fish species could have temporally been removed from an area... lots of 'sciency' stuff foreign nationals actually come very low of probably causes! They also move with weather and cold water.

Irish do it just as much as FN maybe not just with wrasse...
Any action like that is wrong and unethical but according to Irish law they are doing nothing illegal...

Based on that legal position I would informally try to talk to them, and then proceed as required... but highlighting this activity could see some curtailing measures that will overflow into other area of sea fishing... And if that happens you may not be very happy with it...

Makes me a bit sick to read and hear about some of the racist comments. And they are racist to be frank... anyway...

BTW... do you realise that Irish people have been eating wrasse as part of their diet for thousands of years... in the Aran islands salted wrasse is still Christmas tradition. France goes made for the stuff and some crabbers still use wrasse for their pots... they can be fished and eaten sustainably...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AjfVmJhkt-s

Finally, having this 'discussion' without proof is a little like talking about the 45lb bass I caught at the weekend...honest... is there any proof that in fact a well trained team of foreign national fisherman took over 60 wrasse in one sitting? I mean surely you need to fish a mark a good few time in order to learn the ground, tides, and bait to use? or did they just get lucky and the next day they went on to the next bay?
Sorry... not saying it didn't happen... but without proof it just smacks of a racist rant... There are plenty of anecodtes in this thread with no proof to keep the xenophobic chitchat going... we've even heard of FN's lakes getting raped by other FN's.... seems you just cant get away from the buggers