Celebrating the catching of undersize species.

i've sat back and watched this post develop over the last day or two to see what direction it was going to head off in. some good points have been raised and opinions stated. i would have loved to have been fishing in the days gone by when 4 and 5 pound fish were the norm from the shore at most marks, but sadly those days are gone (unless you are lucky enough to live in the bass hotspots). we record and photograph what we catch, and sadly most of it would be described as the "undersized fish" mentioned in this post. but it is a true and accurate account of what's out there in front of us on our shores. if the shore report section ever got to the point where a 10 year old child's pics were going to be removed by the mods due to them being considered too small i'm afraid i'd have to up sticks and post elsewhere. the shore report section is exactly that. reporting what you got on the shores where you fish. if you only want to see pics of specimen fish there are sites for that sort of thing. it would be a sad day if Sea Angling Ireland was to turn into some sort of elitest specimen club. the notion that posting pics of 30cm codling, pollack and coalies would in some way harm our sport is utter nonsense. far more harm would be done by brushing whats commonly caught, under the carpet and only having pics of the odd biggie on the reports. it would be great ammo for the commercial guys who could use such reports to aid thier efforts to be allowed to remove more fish from the sea to line thier pockets. we all need to remember that it's not just anglers who frequent this site and use it to thier advantage. sometimes the odd comment is made just to stir the pot and put a mix in. afterall it's easier to divide and conquere a fractured fraternity than a cohesive force . for what it's worth, we'll continue to post pics of what we catch (regardless of size) as it gives a sense of what is truely out there on our shores. our club recently held a comp that 27 anglers fished in and the biggest fish caught was a 28cm flounder. a sad reflection of the quality of fish available on the day on that beach. but never the less a true and accurate account of what's out there. i know that i for one will not bee smoothing over the cracks to try to paint a prettier picture of whats out there. and i don't want to seem to be getting at any individuals in this thread so far. but i do have to ask myself what was the intent of creating a post that was going to alienate over half the regular posters in the shore report section but then again this is a section for comments and opinions, to which we are all more than entitled to one of the things that makes this site so good.

also ashley there is an organisation in america called trout unlimited. they recieve multi million dollar donationions each year to see over the protection and conservation of trout stocks.to make a comparrison between that and our situation here is not really a balanced arguement

when you approach the authorities to get things done in this country they do not want to know. About 15 years ago a club in wexford went to the cfb with the proposal of a close season to protect spawning flounder in ballyteigue and bannow bay,the cfb basically laughed at this idea.Anglers continued to rape these estuaries in the pursuit of specimen fish and the fish populations collapsed.Recently the cfb posted photos on their website of flounders caught in bannow advertising the fishing in the area, those fish would have been just ready to spawn, absolute genius!
A well known bass mark was annihalated last year.Smallboat anglers and netsmen were removing 1000,s of breeding size fish weekly when they had settled weather, when fisheries board officers were approached about this they did nothing.The officers laughed at the idea there could be so many fish in that particular area,with that attitude they will prove themselves right and the fish they should be protecting will be gone.
There still is decent fish in our waters but not for long with current attitudes.

There is no doubt that small fish do represent sadly a true and accurate reflection of what is out there, and I for one am not advocating a head in the sand attitude in asking that pic's of small fish are not posted up on the site. I just feel that by going down this road we are accepting second best.

Continue to post fish that still grow to a large average size such as Tope, Bull Huss, Smooth Hound, Mullet, Flounder, Wrasse, Pollack, and Bass, because they are worth looking at and inspire one to get out and have a go also.

Lumpy's point is well made. I am not trying to compare Montana's conservation experience though, rather highlighting what can be done when interested and passionate people get together and mobilise. If the members of this site and related organisations got together, pooled there ideas and aspirations for a better fishery, think what could be achieved. Read "Saving Homewaters" by Gordon Sullivan, http://www.countrymanpress.com/titles/SaveHomeWtr.html.

Well said Al,
Angling is a sport, if an angler gets enjoyment from catching small fish then he is entitled to celebrate that.
Personally I generally try for quality rather than quantity - typically with 3/0 or 4/0 hooks for a good fish - sometimes I might just catch one or blank. I know if was using size 4 hooks I could probably catch a lot more fish but for me that one good fish is more worthwile that a couple of dozen small or undersize fish. But that is a personal preference.
Sometimes I do try for quantity or smaller species and scale down the hook sizes. If I catch a bunch of small fish then that is equally satisifying and I should be entitled to post photos of them if I like.
For example on Sunday I decided to try for anything - I was using two rods with small hook three hook flappers on a beach with a nice surf -and a variety of bait. I fished for 4.5 hours and just caught one very small coalfish - I was expecting a better result than that - unfortunately that is reflection of the state of the coastal fisheries due to commercial overfishing so all I can do is celebrate the fact that I didn't blank and caught my first coalfish of 2010.

Commercial overfishing is going to continue, trawlers are going to fish closer to the coast to save on fuel costs ( I heard a trawler has even been raping the wall in Monkstown recently). Sea angling organisations don't have the political clout to make a difference.

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No one is celebrating undersize fish just reporting what they are catching. I use this site because generally the info and reports are more accurate than the the angling magazines. Lets keep it accurate and real or else a lot of posters will be lost, if i want marketing / promotional materail i will pick up one of the fishing glossies.

jw my opinins are indeed deepley depressing but i feel its the invitable truth. we're basing arguments against the over exploitation of the sea on the fact that the trawler men are destroying their jobs for the future. well they live in the here and now and as long as they get their reward the future is casted to the furthest corner of their small brains. the future doesnt bring money home to the table to pay the mortgages and put fod on the table but here and now sure does, and the government who make a cut off their work are more than happy to have the same mentality.

the sea is a difficult place to moniter, its vast. there will never be enough people to inforce the neccesary laws to lead to sustainable fishing. its far easy to manage a freshwater system or patch of forest.

positives to be taken? well, i feel we do have positives and one way we could show the government that we do contribute enough to the economy for them to take our pleas seriously, would be to promote what we do have right here and right now! we have phenomal bass fishing which would rival anywhere in europe, tope are abundant, specimen flounder, excellent rock fishing for wrasse, pollock, huss, conger etc and a great fleet of charter boats which still get good fish, remember the 6 gilled shark of luke ashton's boat? not to mention our hospitality and culture which visiting anglers can all divulge themselves in. get the tourists in and paying real money and then launch a campaign to save our fish stocks

a friend of mine took this pic before xmas in the grassy area of a local estate

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still a few big boys out there
2010 cod wexford

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still a few big boys out there
2010 cod wexford

thats a cracker of a fish well done

still a few big boys out there
2010 cod wexford

Pete, would you care to be more specific please...........Wexford is a big place


Only kidding, cracker of a fish btw, 7/8lb ish

Would it not be better to campaign for the return alive of all sexually mature fish. This would at least give stocks of all species a chance to revive.
In nets it is almost inevitable that the small fish die and only the larger ones survive.

No one is celebrating undersize fish just reporting what they are catching. I use this site because generally the info and reports are more accurate than the the angling magazines. Lets keep it accurate and real or else a lot of posters will be lost, if i want marketing / promotional materail i will pick up one of the fishing glossies.

On this site there is a an entire section celebrating species hunts, there is even a prize for the winner, below is the first three pic's that you came across on the shore species hunt thread:

codl%2008.jpg

pollock.jpg

whiting%2008.jpg

Im not singling anyone out, but the fact of the matter is that these pics are being taken not as part of a report they are being taken because the comp is promoting the capture of undersized fish.
Personally I'd be embarrased to post a pic of a Pollack that size, Ive got a 6yr old cousin who after 3 or 4 trips to various piers around Inishowen is now bored catching immature pollack and Coalies.

As much as I love this web site, and appreciate all the info some very helfull individuals have shared with me, personally I find the species hunt section cringe worthy.

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There is a big difference between accurately reporting sessions and deliberately setting out to catch undersize fish i think all anglers go out in hope of bigger fish but end up catching undersize fish.
Species hunts are a good way of trying some different marks and techniques as for whether there should be size limits for these hunts (maybe not a bad idea) is purely a mater for SAI.

There is no doubt that small fish do represent sadly a true and accurate reflection of what is out there, and I for one am not advocating a head in the sand attitude in asking that pic's of small fish are not posted up on the site. I just feel that by going down this road we are accepting second best.

Continue to post fish that still grow to a large average size such as Tope, Bull Huss, Smooth Hound, Mullet, Flounder, Wrasse, Pollack, and Bass, because they are worth looking at and inspire one to get out and have a go also.

i fully agree ashley,but its extremely difficult to get these people to understand,most who post pics of baby fish are regular posters of baby fish who setup to target baby fish at the likes of wicklow and bray harbours, greystones rocks or any other spot where they know only tiddlers will be and unfortunetly these people have support as can be seen by the ammount of ridiculous back slapping replies-nice session,great catch,some haul etc,etc to a guy who just caught a dozen baby coalies,whiting,dabs etc.there are plenty decent fish out there if you look.

i think we were going somewhere constructive with that one before it turnt into a hate crime. some good points were brought up by both sides and in the interest of education could we continue with it. no personal stuff this time lads

Good +1

I do most of my fishing from beaches ,estuaries, rockmarks, basically anywhere i can wet a line
the smallest hooks i use are from 2/0 upwards because i always strive towards bigger fish but
unfortunately even with bigger hooks i still catch undersize fish .I dont think people go out
intentionally to catch small fish but it happens .I will put my hand up because i have caught
bigger fish and not put them in my reports ,simply because i wouldn't like to see these marks
being exploited, be it from profesional fishermen or anybody else . Now about the lads that are
putting up reports and photo's of so called small fish there is absolutely no harm in it ,if thats
all thats out there what can they do i fish with some of these guys and i have seen the
pleasure they get out of it, they take a quick photo and the fish are returned a.s.a.p and i
have seen the same people being draged along kilgorman beach by smoothounds .What im
trying to say ,at the end day you can only catch whats in front of you .

Once the anglers treat the fish with respect and release the fish as gently as possible i see no problem in anglers posting undersize species on the site. I have seen "summer" anglers with loads of doggies and small pollock on wicklow pier leaving the fish to die, and when challanged about it they said they were keeping them. An hour later i saw them kicking them back in The point im trying to make is Ashley is preaching to the converted here its the anglers who dont respect the sea or its inhabitants we should be trying to educate.

Once the anglers treat the fish with respect and release the fish as gently as possible i see no problem in anglers posting undersize species on the site. I have seen "summer" anglers with loads of doggies and small pollock on wicklow pier leaving the fish to die, and when challanged about it they said they were keeping them. An hour later i saw them kicking them back in The point im trying to make is Ashley is preaching to the converted here its the anglers who dont respect the sea or its inhabitants we should be trying to educate.

i agree with your comments its true i have seen the same thing happen but this is by anglers that arent in clubs and that dont fish as often as us so trying to educate them will be hard