Seals

[quote="gfkelly1969
80kg food daily that's about 200 mackerel,a mackerel basher could catch that amount in one session,dose that mean we should cull a few mackerel bashers as well[/quote]

i have never seen a seal catch a a free swimming mackeral, the only ones they can catch are connected to a set of feathers.

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Lads some good points raised here, but Jez this conservation / animal rights craic is a bit much.

Slowarm, you were the first person to mention culling, then you come back on and quote doggie3131 and captain AHAB, for talking about culling, reading the thread its like you baited them into an argument!

I merely raised a point that I noticed an awful amount of seals on Inistrahull Island on Sunday, and was wondering if this is an isolated case, or if it is the same around the country?

As opposed to jumping on the culling band wagon, I would like to understand:
1, Are the numbers growing beyond what the areas natural resourses can sustain,
2, and if so, what has caused this population explosion.


As for obesity, there was a brave few boyo's layin on them rocks that looked well blubbered up!

the amount of seals around dalkey lately is ridiculous

With fishing like you had the other day, you shouldnt be too fussed about fishing around dalkey anytime soon

we actualy stopped at the 40 foot to and with hin five mins had 2 seals beside us eating every fish we caught, the place is destroyed with them,,,

Maybe some Great Whites will appear and sort it out!!!

Might be a grain of truth in it...

Maybe some Great Whites will appear and sort it out!!!

Might be a grain of truth in it...

mmmmm savage what would we use as bait for them

I think there are probably more seals around due to the weather conditions each breeding season. More pups are surviving as we don't seem to be getting the savage storms or cold weather when they breed. Hence a higher survival rate!

Also they wouldn't be hanging around for the odd pollack or mackeral to be taken from feathers! Seals travel huge distances out to sea to feed each day and don't hang around the rocks waiting for Joe Bloggs to show up and eat his catch!

Forget the Cull talk! Anglers should have a think about the damage done by trawling and illegal netting etc and try deal with that before getting on their high horses and blaming seals for ruining fishing!
Could be the case that the seals can't stand up for themselves so lets target them. Go tackle the commercials and see how you get on!!

Heres some info on the more common grey seal. Note the last line!!!

A wide variety of marine food is eaten, ranging from crustaceans like crab and lobster to shellfish and squid, salmon and other fish. Conflict between fishermen and seals is not new, as they compete for some of the same catch. This has resulted in some illegal 'culling' of seal numbers.

Ireland has a special responsibility towards the well-being of Grey seal colonies, with half the European population found around the country's coast.

I can't believe what Im hearing, Im with Sloworm the killing of a wild animal just because it intereferes with our hobby? Thats barbaric. Also there already is culling, and fish farmers on both coasts regulary shoot seals. And dbrock saying seals took 90% of your catch, come on, don't be telling tales. All we need now is some animal right nut reading this thread and we'll be proper band in South Dublin. Bloody hell lads. People are talking about a population explosion? wheres the figures? Maybe because its summer and theres more fish in the water, maybe because you're out more in the summer months? Eric youre the zoologist, fill us in?

I fished Dalkey,Dun Laoighre reugulary all I winter and I saw one solitary seal once! Not many fish either.honest

[eric]

I can't believe what Im hearing, Im with Sloworm the killing of a wild animal just because it intereferes with our hobby? Thats barbaric. Also there already is culling, and fish farmers on both coasts regulary shoot seals. And dbrock saying seals took 90% of your catch, come on, don't be telling tales. All we need now is some animal right nut reading this thread and we'll be proper band in South Dublin. Bloody hell lads. People are talking about a population explosion? wheres the figures? Maybe because its summer and theres more fish in the water, maybe because you're out more in the summer months? Eric youre the zoologist, fill us in?

I fished Dalkey,Dun Laoighre reugulary all I winter and I saw one solitary seal once! Not many fish either.honest

in training mate, in training, we're still learning about calculators and sh!t

at an accurate and reserved guess, i'd say dalkey island alone harbors about 50-70 seals, is it over the natural numbers? i dont know, from what my dad tells, me, who has been a sandy cove local, since the 50's, numbers have risen slowly, there is certainly is no explosion. they simply have adapted over time and have taken advatage of us humans. the fish waste we dump over the side of commercial harbours, the stupid children feeding the vermin and the free health care we offer them is all welcome. they can certainly be considered a success.

do i think they should be culled? well no, its a bit pointless, but then again we have now problem slaughtering rats and mice, define vermin? define a pest?

let nature take its course, try not to interfere with them, if you see a sick seel, let it die the way nature intended it to, its death will lead to the bounty of others in the food chain

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Last edited by eric on Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

have to correct you there some what staffo, but every single trip ive had near dalkey island or the 40 foot this year has resulted in a seal sitting under the boat waiting for us to hook up,,
a few of the members here have been with me, eric and fintan esp,
so un fortunatley its now one of the seals tools as well as hunting,

. And dbrock saying seals took 90% of your catch, come on, don't be telling tales.

now why would i bother telling tales about that, there was a time when it was great to see one seal around dalkey while in the boat, now there everywere, on sat with fintan we fished forty foot landed 2 wrasse lost about 14 fish and six rigs to seals, work the maths your self,

work the maths your self,

I Will. You lost 14 & landed 2, that 87.5%, not 90% as previously stated, that pretty much prooves Seals are not a problem

All the same, there must be tonnes of marine fauna around the area to sustain each seal consuming 90kg a day. Maybe, if anything, it points to very healthy fish stocks in the area. Although i've fished in Dalkey since i was a kid (not so much lately) and you could have fooled me

Lads some good points raised here, but Jez this conservation / animal rights craic is a bit much.

Slowarm, you were the first person to mention culling, then you come back on and quote doggie3131 and captain AHAB, for talking about culling, reading the thread its like you baited them into an argument!

I merely raised a point that I noticed an awful amount of seals on Inistrahull Island on Sunday, and was wondering if this is an isolated case, or if it is the same around the country?

As opposed to jumping on the culling band wagon, I would like to understand:
1, Are the numbers growing beyond what the areas natural resourses can sustain,
2, and if so, what has caused this population explosion.


As for obesity, there was a brave few boyo's layin on them rocks that looked well blubbered up!

Firstly PaddyB, the numbers couldn't grow beyond what the areas natural resources can sustain: eventually there would be some natural re-adjustment of the order. In the Moy, and any other river, salmon are part of the natural resources: salmon are not 'ours' and 'ours' alone.

Secondly, the numbers are growing because the culls which used to kill them off have been banned and it has taken the guts of thirty years for the numbers to get back to their natural levels. (There was also a virus which wiped out large numbers of seals a number of years back which slowed down the revival).


As to your comment on my contribution, I suggest you re-read the thread PaddyB. Seals are referred to as 'Rats' and the question is then asked by youngrod 'Are they protected.' It doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to see where the arguement was going. I don't personally know doggie3131 nor captain AHAB but I doubt if they were baited into the discussion on culling - perhaps they would like to comment, and youngrod has confirmed his interest in participating in a cull, so I was not too far off in that assumption.

Doggie3131's comments on the Anglers on the Moy amuses me. Firstly he quotes people who obviously have a vested interest in culling seals and sets them up as the be-all and end-all of knowledge on the subject. Counterpoint this with the fact that there is comment elsewhere on this site about the increase in the numbers of salmon re-entering the rivers, and the increase in angling catches, since the driftnet ban was introduced. One contributer mentioned either the Nore or the Barrow and told of a relative of his who went from catching 4 salmon in the year before the ban to catching (I think) numbers in the mid twenties after it.

I think Kstaff's comment about us having such a high percentage of the european population of these animals is very important. Biodiversity is very important and to suggest, directly or indirectly, the culling of animals that are part of that biodiversity is wrong.

Also, only looking at our interests as anglers could have a back-lash by giving ammo to those who advocate that angling is cruel and should be banned - if we were not permitted to fish then the natural balance would eventually be fought and sorted out between the trawlerman and the seal.

For my own part, I believe that seals would not bother humans/anglers if there was enough fish in the sea and if we humans, mostly in the form of trawlermen, had not decimated the seas of fish. So instead of taking the easy option of killing innocent animals, it would be better to tunnel efforts into stopping the widespread distruction of the sea-bed and the eradication of sea life as is currently happening.

Finally, I think it's ironic that those proposing a cull would propably find bosom allies in that other great plague of the sea-angler - the trawlerman.

[quote="slowarm].

For my own part, I believe that seals would not bother humans/anglers if there was enough fish in the sea and if we humans, mostly in the form of trawlermen, had not decimated the seas of fish. So instead of taking the easy option of killing innocent animals, it would be better to tunnel efforts into stopping the widespread distruction of the sea-bed and the eradication of sea life as is currently happening.

Finally, I think it's ironic that those proposing a cull would propably find bosom allies in that other great plague of the sea-angler - the trawlerman.[/quote]


ok, well thats hypocrisy right there, fish have every right to swim the ocean, without human intervention, i think no matter what way you put it, its basicaly harming/killing innocent animals, we still do it, you included, define the difference between a seal and a salmon, apart from the biological make up?

.

For my own part, I believe that seals would not bother humans/anglers if there was enough fish in the sea and if we humans, mostly in the form of trawlermen, had not decimated the seas of fish. So instead of taking the easy option of killing innocent animals, it would be better to tunnel efforts into stopping the widespread distruction of the sea-bed and the eradication of sea life as is currently happening.

Finally, I think it's ironic that those proposing a cull would propably find bosom allies in that other great plague of the sea-angler - the trawlerman.

ok, well thats hypocrisy right there, fish have every right to swim the ocean, without human intervention, i think no matter what way you put it, its basicaly harming/killing innocent animals, we still do it, you included, define the difference between a seal and a salmon, apart from the biological make up?

The difference is very simple eric. I have no problem in an animal/fish being killed to provide food. If I catch and kill a fish I will eat it. Are you and other like minded individuals proposing to eat these culled seals? I very much doubt it.

Firstly PaddyB, the numbers couldn't grow beyond what the areas natural resources can sustain: eventually there would be some natural re-adjustment of the order. In the Moy, and any other river, salmon are part of the natural resources: salmon are not 'ours' and 'ours' alone.

Secondly, the numbers are growing because the culls which used to kill them off have been banned and it has taken the guts of thirty years for the numbers to get back to their natural levels. (There was also a virus which wiped out large numbers of seals a number of years back which slowed down the revival).


As to your comment on my contribution, I suggest you re-read the thread PaddyB. Seals are referred to as 'Rats' and the question is then asked by youngrod 'Are they protected.' It doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to see where the arguement was going. I don't personally know doggie3131 nor captain AHAB but I doubt if they were baited into the discussion on culling - perhaps they would like to comment, and youngrod has confirmed his interest in participating in a cull, so I was not too far off in that assumption.

Doggie3131's comments on the Anglers on the Moy amuses me. Firstly he quotes people who obviously have a vested interest in culling seals and sets them up as the be-all and end-all of knowledge on the subject. Counterpoint this with the fact that there is comment elsewhere on this site about the increase in the numbers of salmon re-entering the rivers, and the increase in angling catches, since the driftnet ban was introduced. One contributer mentioned either the Nore or the Barrow and told of a relative of his who went from catching 4 salmon in the year before the ban to catching (I think) numbers in the mid twenties after it.

I think Kstaff's comment about us having such a high percentage of the european population of these animals is very important. Biodiversity is very important and to suggest, directly or indirectly, the culling of animals that are part of that biodiversity is wrong.

Also, only looking at our interests as anglers could have a back-lash by giving ammo to those who advocate that angling is cruel and should be banned - if we were not permitted to fish then the natural balance would eventually be fought and sorted out between the trawlerman and the seal.

For my own part, I believe that seals would not bother humans/anglers if there was enough fish in the sea and if we humans, mostly in the form of trawlermen, had not decimated the seas of fish. So instead of taking the easy option of killing innocent animals, it would be better to tunnel efforts into stopping the widespread distruction of the sea-bed and the eradication of sea life as is currently happening.

Finally, I think it's ironic that those proposing a cull would propably find bosom allies in that other great plague of the sea-angler - the trawlerman.

your right slowarm you dont know me and it seems you dont know vincent a very conservation minded fishery officer,if he is calling for a [b]limited cull[b][ then i would think there is a need, from personal experience even tho the nets are off the number of salmon entering the system is well down.We all know that there are many reasons for this but i have personally had salmon and seatrout taken of my rod by seals,and when i pay through the nose to fish this system then forgive me if im p**sed off! this is a very valualbe asset to the local economy and i will put the local economy first any time!!

righ tlads i belive in conservation but it is time for seals to be culled . im not talking about taking baseball bats to cubs im talking about a proper cull . while denis and i were out fishing we put back fish at the 40ft and up pops mister seal .. humans cull deer when they get out of control it is a fact of nature that when theres no natural preditor animals can get out of controll and become pests .

forgot the seal got that one to that makes 13 to the seal wohoo making it the seal got 92.85 percent on sat, but infairness we shared that one,

fintan has put it right i guess maybe it is the fact that there are no preditors for the seals around dalkey and there fed all year round , so why leave,,

and don't hang around the rocks waiting for Joe Bloggs to show up and eat his catch!

Sorry Dennis I'm in the clear on this one !!

At least when the Whiteys show up you won't have to chum to attract them, they will come to the boat for your seals!!

Go Team Seals!!!

saw a programme this morning and it said that seals can eat up to 50 tons of fish a year

You know whats worse than the seals for ruining fishing in Dalkey, The f**kin lobster pots that run past Colliemore and all the way up through Dalkey sound to Sorrento Point making fishing almost impossible, I've nearly lost 100% of my rigs to them an countless fish Ive had on, they're a scourge on angling in the area! They ruin a stretch of coast with suitable access for all anglers.