Reintroduction of Salmon Farming in Bertraghboy Bay..

From Bord Iascaigh Mhara? I'll treat that with the contempt it deserves.

the problem with fishfarms is you need too many wild fish to make the pellets to feed the fish in the farms - its not sustainable

This seems to be the main problem with sustainable fish farming. I've looked into this area alot myself and from what I've read in scientific journals, books and publications by the FAO and World Bank, the growth in aquaculture of finfish can only be achieved through the production of more fish feed (which in turn requires the slaughter of a huge amount of small 'trash' fish as they are termed). It is true that much research has been undertaken as regards the use of soya protein as an alternative but preliminary results show that it can affect the quality of the fish flesh and may also not be suitable for fish which have a high intake of fish normally in their diet. Aquaculture of herbivorous fish (which don't require pellets) is widespread in Asia but not popular here as they tend to not be economically profitable.

It should also be remembered that for every 1kg of flesh produced by a farmed (carnivorous) fish, it requires up to 5kg of wild caught fish meaning it is completely unsustainable

See yesterday's Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 65841.html

“Anglers in Ireland have always taken an anti-salmon- farming stance and unfortunately this one-sided argument is counterproductive. The only winner in this conflict scenario is the sea-louse itself. It continues to thrive while salmonid stocks decline, regardless of whether salmon farms are present in a particular locality or not.

That letter was another example of the fish farming lobby trying to muddy the waters. They consistently put down the research linking sea lice and salmon farms to wild sea trout stocks collapses, yet all they can provide is anecdotal evidence and non-science. Written by the aquaculture development manager of BIM no less, sure what else is he going to say?

BTW, check the letters page tomorrow...

A little bit of balance to the debate:

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index ... 4244213846

Madam, – I refer to Angling Notes (April 6th) and the content of a letter to Derek Evans by Donal McGuire, the aquaculture development manager of Bord Iascaigh Mhara, regarding the longstanding problem with sea lice in Connemara.

This matter has been thrashed around for more than 20 years although numerous scientific papers have been published by eminent scientists clearly identifying the salmon louse as a major cause of both wild salmon and sea trout mortality.

Recently the international scientists of both ICES (the International Council for the Exploration of the Seas) and NASCO (the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organisation) warned against the dangers posed by sea lice emanating from marine salmon farms and their impact on wild salmon smolts. It cannot be ignored that salmon farms are the greatest sources of lice by orders of magnitude over wild fish.

As a nation we have failed to protect the wild salmon and sea trout, but to ignore the scientific findings and continue to permit salmon aquaculture in bays belonging to rivers that are special areas for conservation for Atlantic salmon would be nothing short of irresponsible.

The time for debate is long over, the scientific facts are undisputable, the wild fish cannot be permitted to be destroyed. It’s time for Ireland to follow Norway’s example and to designate the bays into which important salmon rivers (proposed SAC rivers) flow as conservation areas for wild fish and to relocate the salmon farms elsewhere. – Yours, etc,

GREGORY FORDE PhD.

Chief Executive Officer,

Western Regional Fisheries

Board,

Earl’s Island, Galway.

Madam, – It was with a creeping sense of dismay that I read Donal McGuire’s correspondence that appeared in Angling Notes relating to sea lice and the reintroduction of salmon farming to Bertraghboy Bay in Connemara.

Mr McGuire states that when salmon farming was re-introduced into the bay (six months ago), the farmed salmon were rapidly infested by sea lice. His conclusion that the source of the sea lice was from the minuscule numbers of wild salmon and trout in the bay at that time of the year beggars belief. He might well have looked elsewhere for the source of the problem – such as neighbouring Kilkieran Bay, only 10 kilometres to the south – where several salmon farm operators have a total of over a million salmon in open net pens. In one operation sea lice levels at the time were twice the guideline limit. Only last month I attended an international aquaculture conference in Boston along with other salmon conservationists and members of the salmon farming community. The international scientific and salmon farming communities have long established the fact that sea lice emanating from salmon farms have serious detrimental effects on wild fish stocks, and is now in the process of having multi-sector dialogue to discuss how salmon farms and wild fisheries might coexist.

Proper regulation of the industry and correct siting of salmon farms should mean that there can be an amicable coexistence between both wild and farm interests. However, until such time as the salmon farming industry in Ireland and the regulatory authorities face up to their responsibilities and recognise the link between fish farms and sea lice, then the “respectful and balanced dialogue” that Mr McGuire yearns for will not progress to a sustainable solution. This will no doubt result in the unfortunate likelihood of an intervention from Brussels to clean up our mess.

Time to put our own house in order. – Yours, etc,

SIMON ASHE,

Ballynahinch Castle Hotel,

Connemara,

Co Galway.

Bradans last response is the key element in this whole sorry affair.

Irregardless of all the claims and counter claims it is far more beneficial to the local and national economy to have a viable sea trout fishery in Ballinahinch rather then a few heavily subsidised salmon cages.

as a salmon farmer of 25 years and an angler for 40 years , i feel i have to bring some common sense to the discusion.firstly lrt me say that there is no argiment that the advent of salmon and trout marine farms has inceased the number of hosts for sea-lice,this was exaserbated by the treatments used to clear the fish only removed the lice and did not kill them therefore increasing the numbers of lice in the area. treatments that are currently used on farms, either kill all stages of the louses life cycle or prevent the swimming stage from settling on the fish. therefore, the timely and proper use of these treatments will help to keep the numbers of lice in the bays as close as possible to background levels.secondly, despite what has been put on this forum, salmon farming still provides significent employment in connemara ,currently 20 at the firm i work, and this because we produce an excellent organic product for export world wide. it is agreat pity that the farmers and the fishery boards have been at loggerheads for so long as they are both in the same business, producing quality fish both wild and farmed, as the technecial expertise on one side and the natural resources on the other should be harnessed for the benefit of all the people.

as a salmon farmer of 25 years and an angler for 40 years , i feel i have to bring some common sense to the discusion.firstly lrt me say that there is no argiment that the advent of salmon and trout marine farms has inceased the number of hosts for sea-lice,this was exaserbated by the treatments used to clear the fish only removed the lice and did not kill them therefore increasing the numbers of lice in the area. treatments that are currently used on farms, either kill all stages of the louses life cycle or prevent the swimming stage from settling on the fish. therefore, the timely and proper use of these treatments will help to keep the numbers of lice in the bays as close as possible to background levels.secondly, despite what has been put on this forum, salmon farming still provides significent employment in connemara ,currently 20 at the firm i work, and this because we produce an excellent organic product for export world wide. it is agreat pity that the farmers and the fishery boards have been at loggerheads for so long as they are both in the same business, producing quality fish both wild and farmed, as the technecial expertise on one side and the natural resources on the other should be harnessed for the benefit of all the people.

Welcome to the forum joyster. I agree with some of the points you made, and believe me, I have no grudge against individual fish farmers trying to make a living. The inescapable fact, however, is that fish farms, where they are currently sited, are causing huge mortalities in wild fish. The treatment and monitoring regime has clearly failed - no action is taken against farms who consistently breach the maximum allowed lice levels. In Norway those farms would be given one warning and then shut down for a second breach. They obviously value their wild fish properly there.
Those employment figures I quoted earlier are from BIM's own figures, I've seen the printed report. I don't doubt that 20 people are employed in your company, but how many people were employed in the tourism angling industry when sea trout fishing was a massive business in Connemara?
Bertraghboy Bay and Killary Harbour are two of the most inappropriate locations for salmon farming given their proximity to important salmon and sea trout fisheries. There are others but these are the two worst locations. I would love to see closed zones where farming is not allowed, within 20-30km of the estuaries of these important fisheries. Get the farms away from these fisheries and then both industries can co-exist. Until that happens, fish farming will continue to operate at the expense of wild fish.

thank you for the welcome, it is encouraging that we agree on some topics.
with regard to the siting of farms ,i must dissagree to apoint that the 2 bays mentioned are not suitable for salmon farming.the main problem as i see it, is that the licenced tonnage alloed by the D.O.M was to high for the bays in question, a similar problem has now manifested itself in killary harbour with the mussel, due to the crazy issuing of licences, it now takes the mussels in the bay twice as long to attain market size!
every natural envoirnment has alimited capacity, be it salmon in cages, sheep grazing on hills,planting non-native trees on hills and bog,fertilising hill comonages and anglers on the water. the trick is to find the level at which all of these can be accomodated within the bays and ashore.
another falacy that should be put to bed , is the notion tht salmon farms breed lice on purpose! the conrol measures on farms occupy about 30% of our time, between monetering,treating, net changing and inspections.also a heavy settlement of lice effects the appetite of the fish by up to 30%, so it is not in the farmers intrest to have heavely infested fish.
lastly, if anyone would like to find further info on salmon farming , just ask a fish farmer and ignore most of the rubbish printed in the papers, both for and against.

thank you for the welcome, it is encouraging that we agree on some topics.
with regard to the siting of farms ,i must dissagree to apoint that the 2 bays mentioned are not suitable for salmon farming.the main problem as i see it, is that the licenced tonnage alloed by the D.O.M was to high for the bays in question, a similar problem has now manifested itself in killary harbour with the mussel, due to the crazy issuing of licences, it now takes the mussels in the bay twice as long to attain market size!
every natural envoirnment has alimited capacity, be it salmon in cages, sheep grazing on hills,planting non-native trees on hills and bog,fertilising hill comonages and anglers on the water. the trick is to find the level at which all of these can be accomodated within the bays and ashore.
another falacy that should be put to bed , is the notion tht salmon farms breed lice on purpose! the conrol measures on farms occupy about 30% of our time, between monetering,treating, net changing and inspections.also a heavy settlement of lice effects the appetite of the fish by up to 30%, so it is not in the farmers intrest to have heavely infested fish.
lastly, if anyone would like to find further info on salmon farming , just ask a fish farmer and ignore most of the rubbish printed in the papers, both for and against.

I have to disagree, 20 years of "lice control" has failed to address the problem. No one here ever suggested that farms breed lice on purpose, but research has shown that even a low lice level of lice infestation in a farm - 2 ovigerous lice per fish - means a high level of larvae being shed into the water, where they infest wild salmonids. 2 lice per fish doesn't sound like much, but when you have tens of thousands of fish, or more, in a confined area, thats a hell of a lot of larvae. The problem is that lice control doesn't work, it only keeps lice at a manageable level for farmers. The 2 lice limit is consistently breached, yet no sanctions are applied to those farms.
Another problem is that 2 lice per fish is not a very high lice burden on individual fish, and will not affect their appetite or health, so farmers have no incentive to keep lice levels this low, since no sanctions are applied.
Research has also shown that fisheries that have salmon farms within 30km of their river mouths suffer greatly, hence the Killary and Bertraghboy are totally unsuitable. The Delphi and Erriff fisheries prior to salmon farming were renowned for the sea trout fishing. Now they are a shadow of what they were, with sea trout virtually extinct. Unfortunately for these fisheries, they are only a kilometre or two from salmon farms.
Lice control does not work for wild fish, the only way to address the problem is to move the farms.

as a fish farmer i must dissagree with your statement that 2 oviderous lice per fish is not significent, in fact it would be very costly to the farmer to allow lice levels like this to be reached1-all of these lice will release their eggs therefore causing more lice to settle on the fish in the cages, 2-if there are oviderous females on the fish it will also mean that male and juvenile lice will also be present on the fish and in greater numbers than the oviderous females, causing irritation and skin damage to the fish and a significent loss of appetite.
it is my experiance that farmers try to avoid a build up of oviderous lice by treating cages before the lice reach maturity. because we operate in a wild envoirnment, it is not always possible to time these treatments so as to be totaly effective and consequently numbers can reach high levels occasionaly.
as i wrote previosly, there is a lot of untruths written about salmon farms,one f them is in the previous comment on this forum, where it is stated that the salmon farm in the killary is situated 1 or 2 km from the delphi and errif fisheries, in fact the salmn farm is at the mouth of the bay and the errif river enters about 9 miles away with the delphi about 7 miles from the farm. i hope this will enlighten anybody who is not familar with the area!
like anything in nature , the causes of problems to organisms are rarely attributed to one agent . it amazes and dissapoints me that very little attention has been given to over-grazing by thousands of sheep, thousand of acres planted with non-native coniferous trees,fertilising of said trees and the hills in genral,neglect of several sea-trout fisheries in connemara,no control of predatorseg-herons, cormorants, mergansers,seals,shags,lck of proper sewage treatment facilities flowing into easturieseg-lennane,clifden,roundstone, lack of proper management stratagies for most of the western catchments other than ballinahinch,kylemore, delphi and erriff, in the overall view of this problem.

as a fish farmer i must dissagree with your statement that 2 oviderous lice per fish is not significent, in fact it would be very costly to the farmer to allow lice levels like this to be reached1-all of these lice will release their eggs therefore causing more lice to settle on the fish in the cages, 2-if there are oviderous females on the fish it will also mean that male and juvenile lice will also be present on the fish and in greater numbers than the oviderous females, causing irritation and skin damage to the fish and a significent loss of appetite.
it is my experiance that farmers try to avoid a build up of oviderous lice by treating cages before the lice reach maturity. because we operate in a wild envoirnment, it is not always possible to time these treatments so as to be totaly effective and consequently numbers can reach high levels occasionaly.
as i wrote previosly, there is a lot of untruths written about salmon farms,one f them is in the previous comment on this forum, where it is stated that the salmon farm in the killary is situated 1 or 2 km from the delphi and errif fisheries, in fact the salmn farm is at the mouth of the bay and the errif river enters about 9 miles away with the delphi about 7 miles from the farm. i hope this will enlighten anybody who is not familar with the area!
like anything in nature , the causes of problems to organisms are rarely attributed to one agent . it amazes and dissapoints me that very little attention has been given to over-grazing by thousands of sheep, thousand of acres planted with non-native coniferous trees,fertilising of said trees and the hills in genral,neglect of several sea-trout fisheries in connemara,no control of predatorseg-herons, cormorants, mergansers,seals,shags,lck of proper sewage treatment facilities flowing into easturieseg-lennane,clifden,roundstone, lack of proper management stratagies for most of the western catchments other than ballinahinch,kylemore, delphi and erriff, in the overall view of this problem.

i agree with alot of what joyster said,i have seen fertilizing of trees done on wet days,where is that going to wash to?
i have seen the hill sides black with muck in the summer time from over-grazing by sheep
i have seen sewage treatment plants in private houses built within 100 yards of rivers and the engineer that install them say you can drink the water that comes out of these plants,if you offered them a glass of this water i wonder would they drink it?
herons, cormorants, mergansers i don't see a lot of these
seals i have only seen one of these but i am told there are hundreds of them out near slyne head
there are 7 or 8 fish cages in clifden bay and in all the sessions i had so far fishing clifden bay i have yet to see a lice on any fish i caught and i have fished 300 yards from the cages

i don't agree with having cages in bays,most i have seen are in very scenic bays
look at killary harbor its looks like a scrap heap with all the fish cages and oyster strings,over 230 of them most of them done with 40 gallon blue barrels as floats
nice way to treat Ireland`s only fjord

imo the comments about the predators is pure rubbish - the numbers of all the larger birds are in decline - due to much of the same pollution problems listed above and all the biomagnification that happens in predators - coupled with the loss of habitat and food resources

seals appear far more prevalent than they actually are as you get to see a big number of them together and get the impression they are huge numbers in their colonies

but the actual numbers of colonies are relatively small

hi lads , with reference to th e subject of predators the point i am making is that there is no protectoin of the smolt when they reach the eastury. i pass the eastury of the inver gowla fishery each morning on my way to work and for the last 3 mornings i have seen 2 seals, 3herons and 2 cormorants fishing the waters! their only prey at this time of year in this envoirnment are salmon and sea-trout smolts and kelts returning to sea.
when the fisheries were privatly owned by the landed gentry they employed people to shoot these predators to protect their stock. unfortunatly, since the world has been taken over by the tree huggers, these activities are now frowned upon .
i would be very interested to hear of any fishery owner who has a predator control programme in place!
with regard to the number of seals in this area , i would see a seal or 2 most days that i am at sea , that being 5 and sometimes 6 days a week. there are colonies of grey seals at the skeirde rocks slyne head, high island, inish shark ininsbofin, davillan and cahir island and colonies of common seals in bertaghbuy and mannin bays. believe me there is no shortage of seals in connemara!
ducas did a survey of the grey seal population in connemara a couple of years ago i am sure that the results of this are probably available from them.
lastly, the lines you see in the killary are mussel lines and yes, the dept of marine have ruined abeautiful bay by issuing to many licences. they have ruined it both visiualy and biologicaly, and this could be sorted by simply removing numbers of longlines!

i am not against mussel lines i know there is a demand for mussels and there is money to be made and they keep people in jobs but the dept of marine should make sure that they are in places that are off the beaten track and don't have a visual affect on the country side,most of Connemara depends on tourist that come to visit
Ballynahinch fishery brings a lot of tourists to Connemara and it would be a shame to ruin that

i think fish farms should be located away from bays in more open waters

lastly, the lines you see in the killary are mussel lines and yes, the dept of marine have ruined abeautiful bay by issuing to many licences. they have ruined it both visiualy and biologicaly, and this could be sorted by simply removing numbers of longlines!

you sound like a treehugger here yourself trying to take over the world!!!

Mussels, being filter feeders, clean the crap out of the water. They're good for the environment.....

as a fish farmer i must dissagree with your statement that 2 oviderous lice per fish is not significent, in fact it would be very costly to the farmer to allow lice levels like this to be reached1-all of these lice will release their eggs therefore causing more lice to settle on the fish in the cages, 2-if there are oviderous females on the fish it will also mean that male and juvenile lice will also be present on the fish and in greater numbers than the oviderous females, causing irritation and skin damage to the fish and a significent loss of appetite.
it is my experiance that farmers try to avoid a build up of oviderous lice by treating cages before the lice reach maturity. because we operate in a wild envoirnment, it is not always possible to time these treatments so as to be totaly effective and consequently numbers can reach high levels occasionaly.
as i wrote previosly, there is a lot of untruths written about salmon farms,one f them is in the previous comment on this forum, where it is stated that the salmon farm in the killary is situated 1 or 2 km from the delphi and errif fisheries, in fact the salmn farm is at the mouth of the bay and the errif river enters about 9 miles away with the delphi about 7 miles from the farm. i hope this will enlighten anybody who is not familar with the area!
like anything in nature , the causes of problems to organisms are rarely attributed to one agent . it amazes and dissapoints me that very little attention has been given to over-grazing by thousands of sheep, thousand of acres planted with non-native coniferous trees,fertilising of said trees and the hills in genral,neglect of several sea-trout fisheries in connemara,no control of predatorseg-herons, cormorants, mergansers,seals,shags,lck of proper sewage treatment facilities flowing into easturieseg-lennane,clifden,roundstone, lack of proper management stratagies for most of the western catchments other than ballinahinch,kylemore, delphi and erriff, in the overall view of this problem.

Joyster, the statutory limit is 2 ovigerous lice, anything over that and farms have to treat. As you said yourself, it is not always possible to treat in a timely fashion and high levels can be reached - that alone is enough reason not to allow fish farming near wild fisheries. By the time high levels are reached, there are enough larvae in the water to devastate nearby wild stocks.
I just checked the map, we were both wrong on distance, the Delphi is about 4 miles from the salmon farm, Erriff about 7 miles. Both well within the 20-30km danger zone (can't recall the reference, but have seen the paper, wild fisheries within that distance of a salmon farm are in trouble with sea lice).

there are 7 or 8 fish cages in clifden bay and in all the sessions i had so far fishing clifden bay i have yet to see a lice on any fish i caught and i have fished 300 yards from the cages

That might be because the salmon louse that affects salmon and trout is species-specific, it doesn't affect pollack, wrasse, ray, or any of the other species you're probably catching.

All the other factors you mention are also present in other healthy sea trout fisheries. They have some effect, but sea lice is by far the biggest problem. Can you explain the sudden and dramatic increase in sea trout stocks in the Ballynahinch over the last 4 years when the salmon farm stopped operating???

hi lads , with reference to th e subject of predators the point i am making is that there is no protectoin of the smolt when they reach the eastury. i pass the eastury of the inver gowla fishery each morning on my way to work and for the last 3 mornings i have seen 2 seals, 3herons and 2 cormorants fishing the waters! their only prey at this time of year in this envoirnment are salmon and sea-trout smolts and kelts returning to sea.
when the fisheries were privatly owned by the landed gentry they employed people to shoot these predators to protect their stock. unfortunatly, since the world has been taken over by the tree huggers, these activities are now frowned upon .
i would be very interested to hear of any fishery owner who has a predator control programme in place!

The Erriff River has a predator control prgramme, they have a licence from NPWS to shoot cormorants.
Seal populations are actually lower than historical levels from what I was told by a NPWS official a couple of years ago. Of course, seals are going to have a greater impact on a sea trout population where that population is already threatened, as the stock has less potential to absorb the losses.
Salmon farmers are very good at blaming everyone else but themselves. Blame the environment, blame sewage, blame sheep, blame global warming, blame seals. I guess if you throw enough mud some of it is bound to stick.

it is widely known tat there are to many lines in the killary and growth levels are decreasing because of this.
i am not trying to lay theblame of the sea-trout decline on any one factor, what i am saying is that the problem should be with the whole envoirnment in mind and not just targeting one element out of many.
there are 2 tpes of lice, caligulus and lepeotherus, the first is commonly found on pollock, wrasse, turbot, plaice flounder that i know of as wellas salmon and sea-trout and the latter is mainly found on salmonids.
another factor in this is that most pot fisherman are now banned from using tramel nets to catch pot bait ,which was mainly wrasse and pollock. both species which play host to licea and alsoprey on salmonids,.

Hi Guys,

This is a really interesting thread and has both sides of the arguement.

It would be really good for this discussion if the up to date and historical sea-trout returns could be published or at least if someone could tell us where to find them or reference them. I have come across the returns from all Irish sea trout fisheries and districts from the 90's to 2003 but they are copyrighted so I dont think I can publish them. I also dont think that up to 2003 helps the discussion as it excludes the period where the bay in question free from salmon. Its very interesting though, to see that the sea-trout numbers in the eastern region have dropped dramatically despite having no fishfarms. Even the great Currane fishery has had highs and lows and up to 2003 seemed to be going through a low.

It seems to me with the info I have, that seatrout, unfortunatly, are suffering country wide. I still have the opinion that it is not one thing that is responsible but an array of things. I personally am not looking for a scapegoat but a responsible balanced management soloution for all the issues mentioned hear. I think I will be waiting a long time for that

Caz

i agree with caz that proper management stratagies will help in this case.
there is an onus on the fishery owners, both state and private, to manage all aspects of their envoirnment, be it spawning grounds, river bank and bed maintenance, predator control, returning fish and smolt to sea counts, and angler management.
also with the sheep farmers and forestry owners tha planting is not done up to the stream banks, sheep numbers are not at a level as to cause over-grazing, any fertilising of the catchment area is done in the proper manner and at the correct time.
fish farmers should ensure that lice levels on their fish should be kept below the targets set by the authorities.
the state should place counters on ALL salmon and sea-trout fisheries, to ensure that within the management plan, there are accurate figures for returning and decending fish within the system. the counts from these counters should be made available to all interested parties .
what has happened to the western fisheries over the last 20 years or so is the responsability of all the users of the catchments, and as such the onus is on these people and organisations and stste authorities to sort out this sorry mess!