Salmon farm wiped out by jellyfish

[pete]

Poor form at laughing at lads on one of the smaller farms that are now faced with going completely out of business :? , one of the few organic farms that the country actually had.

[samo]

Tanglerat i think you miss read my statement i mearly ment that demand for the salmon that this farm produced will have to be met else where and that could lead to poaching of the wild stock in the area to support demand in the local area :roll: simple supply and demand Tanglerat. i dont know if your aware of this tanglerat but there is a demand for irish salmon world wide and if we didnt have fish farms it would put emense pressure on our wild stock. im sure there are alterative farming methods which reduce sea lice populations associated with fish farming.

[Bradan]

Poor form at laughing at lads on one of the smaller farms that are now faced with going completely out of business :? , one of the few organic farms that the country actually had.

Wasn't laughing Pete, but my sentiments are exactly what I wrote. Course I'm not happy to see lads out of work, but I'd rather see people in gainful employment in an industry that doesn't damage wild stocks of fish and recreational fishing.
As for "organic" salmon farming, now that would make me laugh!

[Rockhopper]

I dont think you can call farmed Salmon "Irish Salmon" if a dog is born in a stable it dont make him a horse. I also think that the Salmon farmers dont care what havoc they bring to the wild stocks as long as the money comes in, be it from grants or anywhere else....just my opinion though.

Tom.

[samo]

ye your right rockhopper if a horse is born in a stable then it would be called a horse if a horse was born in an irish stable it would be called an irish horse i was born in Dublin so im a Dubliner do i have to go on. salmon born in irish waters are irish salmon read what it says on the label mate. by the way i think you's are miss understanding what im saying. also which ever way you look at it there is a need for fish farming weather it be salmon or cod because our wild stocks through out the worlds oceans just cant cope any more with demand :cry:

[Bradan]

ye your right rockhopper if a horse is born in a stable then it would be called a horse if a horse was born in an irish stable it would be called an irish horse i was born in Dublin so im a Dubliner do i have to go on. salmon born in irish waters are irish salmon read what it says on the label mate. by the way i think you's are miss understanding what im saying. also which ever way you look at it [b]there is a need for fish farming weather it be salmon or cod because our wild stocks through out the worlds oceans just cant cope any more with demand :cry:

Samo, do you know how many tonnes of wild fish have to be caught, to rear one tonne of farmed salmon or cod? It works out at about 5-6 tonnes of fodder fish (capelin, sprat, sandeel, etc) for one tonne of salmon. Thats 5-6 tonnes that are not available to wild fish in the ocean to feed on.
Couldn't find any recent data, but in 1995, European finfish farms produced nearly 800,000 tonnes of fish ([url]http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/W7499E/w7499e15.htm[/url]). At a conservative estimate, thats 3-5 million tonnes of fodder fish that was removed from the ocean to feed these farmed fish.
And people wonder why wild stocks are fu@ked! :roll:

Oh by the way, the "Irish farmed salmon" are actually genetically Norwegian strains, bred to grow faster and mature later. I haven't even mentioned the ecological effects of farm escapes on wild populations...

[samo]

i find that hard to believe as ever fish farm licence can only be issued by completing an EIS - Environmental Impact Statement.

1995 a bit old to be quoting from also dont you think Brendan

[Bradan]

i find that hard to believe as ever fish farm licence can only be issued by completing an EIS - Environmental Impact Statement.

What exactly do you find hard to believe? EIS's are limited in scope, and are usually conducted by private consultants paid by the fish farmer. He who pays the piper.....

1995 a bit old to be quoting from also dont you think Brendan

Whats your point? Can you find more recent data? If so post it. Do you think the level of production has declined a lot since 1995? In fact, it has probably increased.
If you can provide a valid argument I'll gladly debate this issue with you, but just saying you find things hard to believe, or criticising a point because data is old, isn't a valid argument. Say why you don't believe something, back it up with references or a link.

[Tanglerat]

My position is simple but let me make it very plain and clear:

Wild Salmon: Good.

Farmed Salmon: Bad.

No if's but's maybe's, farmed salmon are the spawn of belebezub himself. If you have the head of the world's largest salmon farming company stating publically that he believes now that caged salmon should be kept away from wild salmon migration routes because of the danger they pose, then as far as I'm concerned it should be game over. Cull the lot and recycle the farms.

You will never, ever find me knowingly eating farmed salmon, and I'm the lad who loves his grub and will eat just about any kind of junk........

[samo]

Brendan then what would your solution be? to stop people eating salmon or perhaps only let people eat fish on a friday? what would happen to the fish stocks if there were no fish farms could the oceans and rivers support the demand i dont think so.

i think you shoud do you research into EIS AND EIA a bit as well chap.

[Bradan]

Brendan then what would your solution be? to stop people eating salmon or perhaps only let people eat fish on a friday? what would happen to the fish stocks if there were no fish farms could the oceans and rivers support the demand i dont think so.

i think you shoud do you research into EIS AND EIA a bit as well chap.

As you seem to know the laws of supply and demand so well Samo, consider this:
:arrow: Yes worldwide demand for fish is increasing
:arrow: Fishing pressure is increasing to meet this demand
:arrow: Aquaculture is filling some of this demand
:arrow: Fishing pressure is resulting in over-exploitation and depletion of fish stocks
:arrow: Aquaculture is increasing this depletion further by producing less fish than is removed from the ocean to meet its needs

What happens when demand exceeds the possible supply? i.e. when fish stocks collapse to really levels, there is no supply left.
You seem to think aquaculture will fill this void, but where are the fodder fish going to come from to rear the farmed fish, if we have fished them all out?
Economics tell us that when demand exceeds supply, prices rise. Therefore fish will become more expensive, even a luxury. Fewer people will be able to afford fish, therefore yes, you might only have fish on a Friday!

You're missing the point tbh, and oversimplifying the argument. You need to see the bigger picture - farmed salmon don't grow on trees - they need large amounts of feed from wild fish to be produced. Or maybe you think there is an inexhaustible supply of sprat and sandeel in the ocean... we'll be alright so! :roll:

ps the username is Bradan, not Brendan :wink:

[samo]

i do understand ecomonics i have a degree in it haha no really i do.

and what im saying is simple farming is the only alternative to meet the supply. i know it may have negative effects on the environment but so does farming cows/pigs (co2 emisions) the same way as crop farming has (loss of habitat).

the world we live in is demand drivin so what the public want they get at a cost to others unforgenatly us fisher men (and some species of fish) feel the negative effects of fish farming and this is the case. is there any other solution other than try to farm the salmon in a way that is not impacting on the environment remember in time scales salmon farming is still in the development stage and maybe through science and careful planning "they" might get it right some day that it doesnt have SUCH an effect on the environment you talk about.

Brendan

[Bradan]

i do understand ecomonics i have a degree in it haha no really i do.

and what im saying is simple farming is the only alternative to meet the supply. i know it may have negative effects on the environment but so does farming cows/pigs (co2 emisions) the same way as crop farming has (loss of habitat).

OK, since you have an economics degree - I'll make it extra simple for ya! :P
Since you compared farming cows to fish farming: Cows eat grass. Grass grows and therefore replenishes itself. A field can only support so many cows as the grass can only grow at a certain rate. If you stock too many cows, you have to give them more grass than the field can support. Thats fine if you have other fields.
Fish eat fish. Fish grow and therefore replenish themselves. The ocean can only support so many fish farms as the fodder fish can only grow at a certain rate. If you try to grow too many farmed fish, you have to give them more fodder fish than the ocean support. Thats fine if you have more oceans. :idea: Uh oh! :oops:

the world we live in is demand drivin so what the public want they get at a cost to others unforgenatly us fisher men (and some species of fish) feel the negative effects of fish farming and this is the case. is there any other solution other than try to farm the salmon in a way that is not impacting on the environment remember in time scales salmon farming is still in the development stage and maybe through science and careful planning "they" might get it right some day that it doesnt have SUCH an effect on the environment you talk about.

Applying an economic model to a wild ecosystem is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Do you not see that farmed fish require many times their weight in wild fish to be produced? Do you not see that this depletes the wild resource even more? What happens when the wild resource is so depleted that we can't produce farmed fish any more.
Economic theory is all well and good, but when your resource can't recover from current exploitation rates, you're in a downward spiral. Many species of fish are slow growing and simply cannot recover within a few years - we're talking decades of no fishing before they will recover. We are in a situation where we may fish out the oceans within 100 years. If there are hardly any fish left, how will you feed all those farmed fish???

[corbyeire]

if history has taugth us anything, its that "they" get it wrong very quickly and it takes infinitly longer to put right again - if at all

brendan

only joking :lol:

[samo]

Do you think it is beyond the human brain to come up with an alternative food source for the farmed fish?????

i dont were are not cave men anymore there is a whole world of science out there brother.

also i think you might find the levels of co2 pigs and cows give off into the athmosphere a little alarming - check it out.. :wink:

Mr. Salmon.

[corbyeire]

the resources are finite - so you cant generate the protein - without the protein being lost somewhere else in the system

thats the planet im on about

so when they get around to extra planetary protein development - ill be all ears

[samo]

how do vegitarians get there protein?

could this not be applied else where?

[corbyeire]

well going off on a mad tangent here - your alluding to crop protein - but that will require more land for production = more ecological destruction

which will be in competition with competeing food prices - due to new biofuel production etc. etc. etc. etc.

at the end of the day it comes back to one of the first principles in science - matter cant be created or destroyed - only changed from one form to another

[samo]

exactly corbyeire,

so at the end of the day the public will dictate weather we have fish,meat fuel or not.

which brings me back to one of my earlier points simply supply and demand Brendan.

ive to go do some work now but ill be back to follow this post hope you all have a good weekend.

including you (user name salmon)

[fishermannum1]

just like to say i for one dont like salmon farms,i think it was in the early 80s when these things started poping up around our coasts,guys seen an opening to make themselfs a lot of money an jumped at it,got grants an started farming the salmon.an did not give a dam about the environmental damage they would cause,only thing they were intrested in was makeing a quick buck! and now we are seeing the results of their actions, the seatrout are quickly disapearing,in some places already have.and it is a proven fact that these farms are to blame.i would love to see a news flash saying, that the jellyfish are now swamping other salmon farms.i feel for the guys who are now out of work,but not a bit for the owners of these farms.i belive if these farms dont close,then say googbye to the few seatrout runs that we still have.......an that is my personal feelings on this.