Dunlaoghaire-Rathdown restrict angling to designated areas??

a bit of help when e-mailing, the mail wont send with just the commas between the addresses.

Copy and paste them into the address bar with ; between them like below

'jbailey@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'mbailey@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'mbaker@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'nbhreathna@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'nchilders@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'bconway@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'louisecosg@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'louise.cosgrave@indigo.ie'; 'aculhane@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'cormacdevlin@ireland.com'; 'jdbyrne@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'cfallon@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'tonyfox@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'phand@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'ghorkan@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'kireland@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'tjoyce@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'tkivlehan@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'dmarren@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'tmatthews@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'lmccarthy@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'mmoconnor@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'denisoc@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'gokeeffe@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'joleary@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'; 'carriesmyth@cllr.dlrcoco.ie'

Got a response quite quickly:

To: Neil Frankish:

Dear Neil,

I refer to your recent email concerning the proposed amendments to by laws affecting the coastal areas of the county.

It is very important that you are aware that no decision has been made on amending the by laws. What we have before us is a Draft Document for Public Consultation.

Officers of the county council prepared this draft document. I have discussed it with them and sought to establish the rationale. They informed me that they had received many representations from swimmers and other beach users on matters of safety particularly in regard to the undisciplined behaviour of some speedboats and jet skiers close to the shoreline. They also stated that beach users had complained of undisciplined behaviour on occasions by some anglers.

The next stage of the Consultation Process is the seeking of submissions in response to the Draft Document. I hope that you and other responsible anglers will have a very clear and positive submission to make. Common sense would dictate that efforts should be made to protect the safety of all and at the same time continue to give access to traditionally fished areas to responsible anglers.

When all submissions are received the officers will present a report to the council. At that stage the elected members will make their decision on adopting the proposed amendments to the by laws. We will do this having read the submissions and will then make a decision taking into account the long tradition of angling along our seashore as well as the safety of the public.

Be assured of my interest in the concerns you have expressed,

Yours truly,

Donal Marren Cllr.

I discussed this with the folks at South Side Angling. They were against the proposed ban obviously, but also said the Fisheries Board were against it.

Some additional points:

a) Angling is a major outdoor leisure activity - the step is in conflict with the efforts undertaken by the departments of tourism, sport et al to promote outdoor activity and a particularly shameful one when then media is full of reports of obesity.
b) Angling is also a major activity in the immigration community. The move is an attack on integration opportunities.
c) The council already PROMOTES angling by way of signs on locations that they propose to ban (see sign opposite Teddy's).
d) I have fished the area since 1976, first with my dad. Why shouldn't kids enjoy fishing with their parents now, especially at a time when parental responsibilities and lack of social opportunities for kids is a major social issues.

I recommend SAI get some posters up in South Side Angling, ABC, etc. Get them in Polish too, and a letter to the Irish Times, their angling correspondent and Evening Herald also, and an e-mail to RTE's seascapes programme.

I sent the mail below to a number of the contacts within DLCC yesterday:

To All Concerned,

As i am sure most of you are aware, Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council are
proposing to ban angling from ALL of its shoreline, with the exception of
Bullock and Colliemore Harbours.

This is utterly unnecessary, there is no real conflict between
swimmers and anglers nor have there have been any serious accidents or incidents between swimmers and anglers

Anglers tend to use the beaches most at times when there is little
or no swimming but where there are demonstrable difficulties, anglers would be quite happy to restrict their use of the beach at particular times in particular places. The problem is with a blanket ban, and only designated exceptions to that ban.

This is also an issue of personal freedom, and the proposed by-law is an
unnecessary restiction of our freedoms and a note to councillors- Anglers are passionate about anging and will vote on that basis therefor a ban like this will not help with seeking votes

Sea-angling in Dublin is a major tourist activity so i find it strange that there was no consultation with the Fisheries Boards, Tourist Board,
local Angling Clubs, or for that matter the Blue Flag section of An
Taisce.

On reading the proposed new bans I found a number of rediculous propositions but by far the most prepostorous is the fishing ban.

Fishing along Dublins shoreline has been a national pastime for centuries. As a child I fished along these beaches and harbours with my grandfather and my father, this proposed ban essentially makes it illegal for me to do the same with my children???
I'm sure large businesses along the shoreline pose a much bigger risk to swimmers and beachgoers... But as they say 'money talks'.

Get a grip and tackle some of the more serious issues along our shores such as pollution.

Damien ****** D.14


I received a couple of responses to my mail yesterday,

I'll paste their replies:

Cllr. Lettie McCarthy:

Dear Damien,

Thank you for your email. I have noted your points and will discuss same with my party colleagues.

Kind regards,

Lettie


Cllr. Donal Marren:

17 Rock Lodge, Killiney, Co. Dublin
tel 2853160 email: dmarren @cllr.dlrcoco.ie



30th August 2007


To: Damien Scanlan:

Dear Damien,

I refer to your recent email concerning the proposed amendments to by laws affecting the coastal areas of the county.

It is very important that you are aware that no decision has been made on amending the by laws. What we have before us is a Draft Document for Public Consultation.

Officers of the county council prepared this draft document. I have discussed it with them and sought to establish the rationale. They informed me that they had received many representations from swimmers and other beach users on matters of safety particularly in regard to the undisciplined behaviour of some speedboats and jet skiers close to the shoreline. They also stated that beach users had complained of undisciplined behaviour on occasions by some anglers.

The next stage of the Consultation Process is the seeking of submissions in response to the Draft Document. I hope that you and other responsible anglers will have a very clear and positive submission to make. Common sense would dictate that efforts should be made to protect the safety of all and at the same time continue to give access to traditionally fished areas to responsible anglers.

When all submissions are received the officers will present a report to the council. At that stage the elected members will make their decision on adopting the proposed amendments to the by laws. We will do this having read the submissions and will then make a decision taking into account the long tradition of angling along our seashore as well as the safety of the public.

Be assured of my interest in the concerns you have expressed,

Yours truly,

Donal Marren Cllr.

Cllr. Dennis O'Callaghan

Damian
Thank you for email
I will be dealing with this by way of amendment when it comes before Council.
Cllr Denis O Callaghan
Cathaoirleach


I suppose it's something, let's hope this all just fizzles out when they see how rediculous it is.

[/i]

The topic has been covered by several radio stations this week. I have also been contacted by a number of councillors outlining their thoughts on the issue.

This is a summary of the situation as expressed to me by the councillor’s :

Despite what the wording of the draft appears to say, none are proposing an outright ban on angling. However, all feel there is a necessity to control use of the resource from a health & safety perspective and to maximise enjoyment.

The wording of the draft is not particularly good – particularly the reference to the 2 harbours. They should have been designated as fishing ports (commercial), not designated angling areas.

The approach whereby all angling is banned everywhere other than in designated areas follows official thinking on how bye-laws are implemented. It is done because they do not want to have to represent a new bye-law every time a local condition changes. A single bye-law process gives the council total control and saves time, legal fees, further public consultation etc into the future. This is also why numerous activities are covered by the same bye-law.

Some have reported healthy & safety issues concerned with anglers “weights and lines” but no specifics are available.

All publicly support the consultation process and welcome submissions.

I am meeting with the Chairman of the County Council today amd will update following this.

In the meantime, I would urge all anglers to continue to communicate with the councillors in a reasonable tone with the points previously made by Donagh and particularly opposing the 100% ban, designated areas approach.

Other points that can be made are:

- The Dublin Angling Initative, an excellent government sponsored programme to introduce youths to angling is located in the Dun Laoghaire / Rathdown district. This programme has introduced thousands of youths to angling over the last decade with the intention of giving them a healthy pastime and an appreciation of the opportunities available in the region. On the one hand the government is promoting angling as a healthy pastime to be practiced in the greater Dublin area and on the other hand it is proposing to ban it.

- Every fishery board and tourism outlet in the country is trying to attract anglers into the country with maps of the region and the fishing available being distributed at trade shows and tourist fairs across the EU. This draft proposal appears to undo all the strategic efforts of these bodies.

- Will there be compensation for the tackle trade in the area whose business will undoubtedly suffer ?

Reply from Niamh Breathna

It certainly was not my intention to limit fishing on the pier when we discussed the Bye laws. But it is important to remember that was what we were doing, opening the discussion on a document presented to us by the manager. We have heard your voices and I am sure that we will be able to reach an agreement on the bye laws having listened to all the raised voices.
best wishes
Niamh Bhreathnach

Hi

Does anyone know when the council are meeting to assess this draft document? In most situations like this, you want to time the lobbying to reach a crescendo just before they hit the chamber / meeting, so that the "raised voices" are ringing clearly in their heads... a concerted campaign (encirclement is a good strategy here) where the pressure is slowly increased to its maximum just in advance of this meeting would be the ideal option.

RSVP

Hi

Does anyone know when the council are meeting to assess this draft document? In most situations like this, you want to time the lobbying to reach a crescendo just before they hit the chamber / meeting, so that the "raised voices" are ringing clearly in their heads... a concerted campaign (encirclement is a good strategy here) where the pressure is slowly increased to its maximum just in advance of this meeting would be the ideal option.

RSVP

My understanding is that the decision could be at least two months after the closing date for submissions. All submissions need to be compiled and then presented in report format to the council.

I will try to find out today if there are more precise timelines.

Was on to Council and was told we have until 28th sept to make submissions and the notice was published in Irish Times. I asked secretary to post out copy of proposals to me and would advise everyone else to seek the same. we can then make individual objections and submssions as well as the group submissions to show the level of opposition to these drastic measures......
Interesting point... they say this is all in the interest of health and safety yet they have chosen the two most dangerous places along the Dunlaoghaire coast to be designated for angling!!!

Also a good idea to spread the campaign internationally. If those powers that be start seeing letters/emails from anglers in the UK, USA, Europe and further afield deploring the proposals and threatening not to return to Ireland as a result, they may take even more notice of us.

I've posted about this over on the sea forum at total-fishing, the lads there have promised support.

If any of us is active on other international angling forums, stick on a post pointing them in this direction asking them for support.

I've received replies from the following people:

Seamus Brennan (his secretary) saying that it is being looked into and they (Min. for Tourism) will be back shortly with more information and feedback. This came in a letter in response to an email last week.

The following were received via email and were, in some cases, similar to responses others have received.


Lettie McCarthy

Dear Steven,

Thank you for your email. I have noted your points and will discuss same with my party colleagues.

Kind regards

Lettie

Denis O'Callaghan

Steven
Thank you for email

I will be tabling amendments to the draft proposals
when the matter comes before Council
Cllr Denis O Callaghan
Cathaoirleach


Niamh Bhreathna

It certainly was not my intention to limit fishing on the pier when we discussed the Bye laws. But it is important to remember that was what we were doing, opening the discussion on a document presented to us by the manager. We have heard your voices and I am sure that we will be able to reach an agreement on the bye laws having listened to all the raised voices.
best wishes
Niamh Bhreathnach


Donal Marron



17 Rock Lodge, Killiney, Co. Dublin
tel 2853160 email: dmarren @cllr.dlrcoco.ie



30th August 2007


To: Steven Long:

Dear Steven,

I refer to your recent email concerning the proposed amendments to by laws affecting the coastal areas of the county.

It is very important that you are aware that no decision has been made on amending the by laws. What we have before us is a Draft Document for Public Consultation.

Officers of the county council prepared this draft document. I have discussed it with them and sought to establish the rationale. They informed me that they had received many representations from swimmers and other beach users on matters of safety particularly in regard to the undisciplined behaviour of some speedboats and jet skiers close to the shoreline. They also stated that beach users had complained of undisciplined behaviour on occasions by some anglers.

The next stage of the Consultation Process is the seeking of submissions in response to the Draft Document. I hope that you and other responsible anglers will have a very clear and positive submission to make. Common sense would dictate that efforts should be made to protect the safety of all and at the same time continue to give access to traditionally fished areas to responsible anglers.

When all submissions are received the officers will present a report to the council. At that stage the elected members will make their decision on adopting the proposed amendments to the by laws. We will do this having read the submissions and will then make a decision taking into account the long tradition of angling along our seashore as well as the safety of the public.

Be assured of my interest in the concerns you have expressed,

Yours truly,

Donal Marren Cllr.


I think we should thank those concerned who saw fit to respond to our representations.

From our point of view, we need to think out the possible Health and Safety issues and have a response ready. For example, an area that H&S might bring up concers could be lost hooks/gear catching swimmers in the water. My response would be that gear lost tends to stay lost and hooks do not have a particularly long shelf life in the sea. Can we think of other items. This concern about 'weights and lines' for example, I know Cooke has said that there are no specifics; can we follow up on that and get the specifics.

It's good to know we have, at the very least, got the attention of those involved and responsible. Let's keep it up.

Hi
I have been trying to find e-mail addresses for sea angler and total sea fishing to have a letter published looking for support from uk anglers but cant seem to find the addresses anyone have them?


fintan

Try this Croppyboy,

[url]http://www.greatmagazines.co.uk/store/custompage.asp?customid=82&custid=31@08@200746795@947082026[/url]

And also [url]http://www.totalseaangler.com/letters.html[/url]

Try here for Total Sea Fishing:

http://www.dhponline.com/

(Click on Magazines, then TSF)

i e-mailed DLRCC this morning and received [i]verbatim [/i]the Niamh Brennan, Donal Marren, and Lettie McCarthy replies posted earlier in this thread.

It might be worth pointing out to public representatives that it wasn't that long ago that some swimmers didn't want women to be allowed into the Forty Foot bathing place. The proposal here is as mean-spirited as that, and must be rejected as such.

Uvox

Denis O'Callaghan

Steven
Thank you for email

I will be tabling amendments to the draft proposals
when the matter comes before Council
Cllr Denis O Callaghan
Cathaoirleach

Does he say what ammendments to the draft proposals he will be tabling? As Cathaoirleach, he's in an influential position. We should know/find out what precisely his intentions are.

Any chance of you replying and asking him directly to clarify, Stephen?

Dont know if this has been mentioned already but it should be pointed out that angling is a year round activity where as swimming isnt. This is important in terms of the economic arguement.

Caz

Hi all,
Just to keep you all up to date, yesterday, Friday 31/08/’07, I went with Brian Cooke to a meeting with Denis O’Callaghan who is the Chairman (An Cathaoirleach) of DLRCOCO. He is very aware of the situation and also very aware of the publicity being generated. He was very pleasant and seemed to be genuinely interested in our point of view, unfortunately he does not know much about fishing. After some discussion we suggested that we might be prepared to agree to allow a ban on fishing on a beach with a lifeguard on duty and only between the flags and again only while the lifeguard was on duty. He wanted to know if we would be prepared to extend the time up to darkness as during the summer months many people wanted to swim in the evenings. Though this seems reasonable, there are anglers who like to fish at dusk in to the dark. We said we felt that this would not be a swimmer. He suggested that on other beaches where there are no lifeguards, that anglers agree not to fish in an area for between 100-200 yards of the entrance thus leaving other users an area to play with children or have picnics etc. without the fear or the danger of getting a stray lead or hook stuck on them. Again very reasonable but limiting our rights. We pointed out that we also have elderly/infirm anglers who might not be able to walk the extra yardage to fish. He said he wanted to be reasonable but would like some further consessions from anglers. OVER TO YOU WHAT DO YOU THINK? CAN WE GIVE MORE? His job when this comes up in the chamber will be to get agreement and to do this he wants to be reasonable to all.
Please let me know what you think.
Remember to send in your submissions to the Executive also please write to each TD in the area and to your own local one wherever you are and write to each of the councillors in the DLRCOCO area. Warren Doyle and the lads in EFSA have organised petitions to be signed in the Dublin tackle shops get in and sign them. This issue will need support and lots of it.

Tom Lillis (ps I love prawns but not in a sandwich)